In Europe and Canada, only high school seniors run 33″, the others run 30″ hurdles.
In the USA all high school girls run 100m 33″ high hurdles (or are there some states that do it differently?).
I wonder why that is. I am from Europe and live and coach in Canada now. I like the European/Canadian system a lot. In our province (Alberta) all high school girls run 80m hurdles with spacing 12m/8m – 30″, seniors 33″ (I would prefer the senior girls run 100m, but the thinking here is that you get more girls involved when they can 3-step). In club meets the distances are 80m hurdles for 15 year olds and younger, 100m hurdles for 16-17 year olds (30″) and 33″ for 18+.
It makes hurdling so much more attractive – you don’t have to jump the hurdles and you can 3-step them more easily. More girls will be trying it. Wouldn’t it be an advantage to start lower? Any comments?
High School Girls Hurdle Heights
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Participant
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KeymasterI think there’s a general distaste among many American coaches for both the spacing and height of the women’s ‘high’ hurdles. Many (especially those with the power to make such decisions) think that the womens hurdles are already too close and too low. So much so that it’s a completely different race that requires little hurdling skill compared to the men. In fact, I hear a lot of people talk about trying to get the women’s hurdle spacing further apart and the heights higher. I’d imagine if the women’s hurdle height for collegiate and pros was 36″ the high school hurdles would stay at 33″.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Jan,
Interesting question.
In USATF (vs. high school) – the age groups progress from 80m – 30″ – 7.5m spacing (Midget) to 100m – 30″ – 8.0m spacing (Youth) and then to 100m – 33″ – 8.5m spacing (Intermediate & Young Women).
Unfortunately – when they advance from Youth to Intermediate – they increase both the height and the spacing at the same time – which can be a tough adjustment.
Ironicially – because of my daughters fall birthdate – she entered the Intermediate age group after her 8th grade track season – before entering high school. On the plus side – she had the summer to train on the tall hurdles as opposed to some who had to make the adjustment during their freshman high school season. As she first 3 stepped as a 7th grader (30’s on 8.0 spacing) – she managed the transition during summer track and was 3 stepping the 33’s on 8.5 by summers end.
Unfortunately – some high school girls never master 3 stepping on the 33’s at 8.5. On the opposite end – some high school girls dip into the 13’s on the same.
Then again – the complaint I hear/see most often is that unlike the men, the hurdles remain at 33 on 8.5 from the freshman year in HS all the way to the Olympics – where it provides a limited challenge for mature/elite athletes.
But I agree that the progression isn’t necessarily optimal – but the logistics of running 4 100/110 hurdle races (I’m assuming the same concern would be valid for the boys) at a HS meet might be part of the issue.
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Participant
I don’t believe this, more voices (other than mine) in the wilderness?
“logistics”: sorry, that’s a reason that just annoys me no end (and not that is not the wording I normally use); “you”, those who decided these things, will need to figure out what you want. Good/smooth logistics or better and more hurdlers (though to some degree the issue is the same in a few other events; I have heard as a reason that “we” do not want to have multiple different specifications in the records for the same event in hurdles but also in shot, discus etc.);
I have spent not a small amount of time looking at various hurdle specifications for different countries/systems and from everything I have found so far, having a few more races each time/meet is not an issue for everyone (otherwise they would not have said races in places/cities/countries where they do).Jan: FYI one of the ongoing items within AthCan sort of “in process” at the moment is getting standards the same across the country so that any out of province meets athletes will at least have consistency.[Here in Manitoba, the specs are not the same as in Alberta for example and further, for example, HS here does not run intermediate (300mH or 400mH) at all]. IMO mixing an age group requirement with a specification (as hurdling does) for the younger ages almost invites stifling development. Are other methods fraught with “danger” as well? Of course and it unfortunately includes having feelings hurt [from the athletes perspective, if you were to separate them from their peer group based on say leg length or overall height or strength so that those of roughly “even” base regardless of age would be competing against one another, sort of like boxing is, I believe, where the base is body weight], but right now, here, the best hurdlers locally are hurt as they have to compete at specs not suited to them (H.S) yet the spacings and heights used have not really resulted in higher participation numbers (as was most likely the original thinking).
Personally I think one of the best things that has happened locally with hurdling in years was this past summer were “we” took all possible hurdle specifications (both age group and high school, plus added in 200mH, 300mH, 400mH) at our provincial age group meets and then let any one of any age compete over any specification they wanted (and if pressed we allowed several runs back to back) it was only at the Provincial Championships where we stuck to the specified age group spacing, heights and race distances but more for the purposes of having age group awards and records (if applicable).
Was it the most “pleasant”? And was everyone happy? Well, no but not everyone will ever be happy. Did it help our participation numbers? Well, maybe a little bit (it was the first attempt at this) but that is always an issue here anyway. Will it help develop athletes with better hurdling skills? Jury is still out but I can not see how it will not, it will take time.
And, seriously, I would like to make even more choices available, such as going 27″ or even 24″ for younger athletes. By chance I happened to see a young man today that runs OK but improves when he goes over very low obstacles, he appears to be a “natural” but the “problem” for some, I hope not but think this will happen, is that he is 11 and I am not sure our specs are adapted for someone that young (could they be, sure hence the 24″ etc.) And, NO, I am not saying he should specialize as a hurdler, I am saying he should be able to compete over heights and spacings that do at least allow him to 3 stride (and if he takes 4, 2, or 5 is it vital? No.) -
Participant
RussZHC…
Jan’s original post was in regards to high school athletes. So my response was that in a high school meet setting – often with prelims and finals – having multiple 100H & 110H races – at different heights/spacings could pose logistical challenges to the meet organizers in this context. And I’m pretty sure running some HS athletes at 80m (moving the starting line & blocks, removing hurdles, etc.) while others run at 100m or 110m would add more logistical challenges. And quite frankly – these meets run long enough as is.
At the HS level – I have no idea how you would determine who would run which spacing/height? You couldn’t reliably do it based on grade – as some freshman girls (9th grade) can 3-step – while some seniors (12th grade) can’t. I suppose it’s possible do divide them into Junior Varsity (JV) and Varsity – and use different spacings/heights for each group.
Unfortunately – at our small high school meets – there’s often no 3-step hurdlers (at 8.5m/33″) other than my daughter – so she would have no one to race against with a JV/Varsity split. On the other hand – the bigger high schools in our area often have several 3-step hurdlers on the same squad. I suppose she could run JV at lower hurdles and shorter spacings (8.0m and 30″) – taking away the advantage she has. And while I’m sure that more athletes would 3-step – I’m pretty sure you’d still have some 4 or 5 stepping. Do you further reduce the spacing/heights to insure even more can 3-step? When do you stop? Move them in too far – and the faster hurdlers have to start chopping their steps. Do we want to penalize the faster/more skilled hurdlers by making them chop steps (effectively reducing their velocity) so that their slower/less skilled competitors can 3-step?
While I appreciate the goal to have hurdlers 3-step, I don’t think we need to adjust the hurdles so that everyone, regardless of skill or development, is assured of doing so at meets. So I guess the question is – how do you determine the optimal combination of height, spacing and race distance for such diverse (physical maturity/development, speed, height, coordination/skill, etc.) group?
As a HS coach – I have hurdlers who 5 step, those that 4 step and some that can 3 step (all or partial races). Naturally my goals is to help the 5 step hurdlers learn to alternate lead legs so that they can 4 step (an asset in the 300/400H races), and of course, work with 4 steppers to 3 step (and some may not make it). Admittedly – at practice we have the luxury of using both reduced heights and spacings as a tool to help with this progression.
Interestingly – as a freshman – even though she 3 stepped the complete race (33’s at 8.5m) – my daughter was beaten by 4-steppers on several occasions at both 55m & 100m. So I don’t see 4-stepping as failed technique – just less than optimal.
Her first 3-step race was a 17.21 FAT at a USATF Regional (30’s at 8.0) as a 13 year old. She’s still taking the same number of steps – but has run a 15.38 FAT (33’s at 8.5) as a 16 year old. Lolo Jones ran a 12.29 FAT (wind aided) this year at the USA Olympic trails -taking the essentially the same number of strides as my daughter… So if a change is warranted – I’d probably lean towards an increase in height for college and Olympic women 100H.
I agree that an 11 year old probably shouldn’t be running 30″ hurdle and would benefit from a lower height.
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Participant
I agree that an 11 year old probably shouldn’t be running 30″ hurdle and would benefit from a lower height.
King Karl and Gill Athletics would love this.
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Participant
rcfan2: I have no dispute with anything you said, much of it was what I generically referred to as “other”, however I should also have confined my rant about logistics to the local HS scene.
The difficulty as I see it you have illustrated very well and that was my point. There is this theory of 3 stride between flights but at the level we are talking about that is just not actuality for all. As examples, in the past year I have coached a young lady who may never advance to 3 stride, it is a matter of stature; while we continue to work I just felt I have to help prepare her in a way to be competitive even if she never does 3 stride all flights; I coached another who could 3 stride the flights for most of the 10H but could not get to 1H in 8 and with 10 strides she slowed down trying to set up that perfect clearance, yet the most likely solution, learn to 4 stride and apply it when needed and or switch feet in the blocks and go 9, she flatly refused to do meaning that it became a matter of chance, she would either try to reach with the later flights or take 5 strides so the same lead would be used. Local HS boys who also run age group races have a longer race (in some cases since the split is along ages one place and by grade the other) 100m vs 110m, completely different spacings (13 vs 13.72 to 1H and 8.5 vs 9.14 between).Here they run both JV/SV girls over 80m, and the JV/SV boys over 100m and over the past 5 years the numbers of participants have been dropping plus it penalizes the able athletes, able to perform hurdles well, since those athletes will also be going over completely different spacings in local age group meets. It is not uncommon for the better girls to start well back from the line just to try and get to the first hurdle with some comfort but that in itself promotes a bit of panic since the athlete is then effectively pressing from the start as human nature will say, “you are behind” right from being in the blocks; I happened to begin coaching one of the better male HS hurdlers when he was in grade 11 and by the time he got to his last year of HS, the next year, we decided he would not compete at HS hurdle competitions since it would really hamper his training (which was going very well) as far as having to compete concurrently at H.S./Juvenile and Junior spec which are completely different and frankly, somehow, he accepted this view looking long term (granted it helped he also was very good in the flat 100/200, relays) [that was the potential for hard feelings/heartbreak I referred to, that thought could easily have been considered a coaching mistake but he does not seemed to have been greatly affected by that decision. I felt in his case there needed to be a decision made. The same situation with a different athlete happened the next year and he too made the same choice].
Running more hurdle events: locally I just don’t believe it is not possible at H.S., since I have personally witnessed more than 5 minutes between heats of the flat sprint events, and I’m sorry, I just do not think there is reason for that (if total time becomes the debating point) as well, and more to the hurdle topic, I spend about half of my coaching time with hurdlers and, as I am sure you know, you get used to putting up, moving and adjusting hurdles for the sake of efficiency and expediency so if I then repeatedly witness others setting up for competition and I by myself could cut the set-up time in half of what a whole crew, ~12, who has more or less no clue what to do, then again the time issue is valid but the reason time is an issue IMO is wrong…I mean the coaches/supervisor/officials in charge of set-up literally measure the spacing with a tape each year, and across various lanes though there are and always have been marks.
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