[senri]

senri on September 21, 2007 at 9:12 am #13372

[quote author="utfootball4" date="1170644034"]
so what about these athletes who increase there pc by 30lb and don't see improvement in there acc develop?

This rarely happens in athletes that I coach. I actually can't remember a time when an athlete that I worked with on a daily basis did not see improved acceleration ability 1-3 weeks following a jump in power cleans and / or squats. The improvement in acceleration  indicators almost always seem to occur week after the big weight room jump in performance. In most cases, when big weight room improvements are made my experience is that there is actually a short term drop-off in acceleration indicators. The big jump in improvement in acceleration almost always is delayed. There are several reasons something like this could occur (delayed adaptation, format of periodization, etc.). In fact there are several members on this board who I've worked with that can attest to this phenomenon.

I have noticed that athletes who I work with on a correspondence basis have a slightly higher rate of dis-correspondence between performance indicators. I'm not sure what the difference is- could be monitoring of acceleration mechanics, could be be the minor adjustments of training load that are made in hands-on situations, etc.
[/quote]

this is a quote from mike in an earlier thread on power clean correlation to a faster acceleration. I was wondering about this as i pb'd in the power clean during acceleration spp phase i was in. I was running faster accels and pb'ing in the power clean simultaneously is seemed, then there was a drop-off in performance for the accels, but after a few weeks i started to run faster when i got deep in the season, however my program changed and i was doing more speed end stuff and maxv work, i wouldnt know if the adaptation occured from speed end, maxv work work or that my acceleration adapted late in combination with the speed end, i didnt time it later on in the season only during when i had weights in the program so i dont know how i progressed in that regard.

Now in relation to the hills, i am doing power cleans as a main weight exercise and supplementing with bench, and single-leg squats. I am on a 5×5 power clean program and all is going well until i started upping the hill volume and intensity, then the weights in the power clean started feeling very heavy but manageable (so far). I was wondering if this was normal or if this is primarily because of my increase in hill sprint training as well as intensity in the weight room? I increase weights by 5lbs every week. Should i increase the intensity of the weights every 2 weeks and reduce hill sprints? Or increase hill sprint training and maintain for now the progress i have made n in the weight room?

I'm planning to do power cleans throughout 3/4 of the season, but keeping an eye if i'm doing to much or burning myself out.

I do hills twice a week on the same days i do weights and plyos
my progress is like this…

10x10m for a week and half
10x20m for a week and half
10x30m for a week and half
4x4x30m 2.5/5mins for a session
3x4x40m 2.5/5mins for a session
3x6x40m 2.5/5mins for a session

any suggestions?

[barto]

barto on September 22, 2007 at 12:16 am #66642

Hills can be a pretty neuro-intensive stimulus.  I'm not suggesting that you can't do them on the same day as olympic lifts, but I would make sure to keep an eye on the total CNS load you are taking on during any given day.  Otherwise you will experience a state I like to refer as "Fryation".

my 2 cents

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 22, 2007 at 11:40 pm #66643

I do hills twice a week on the same days i do weights and plyos
my progress is like this…

10x10m for a week and half
10x20m for a week and half
10x30m for a week and half
4x4x30m 2.5/5mins for a session
3x4x40m 2.5/5mins for a session
3x6x40m 2.5/5mins for a session

any suggestions?

Right now I'm doing hills and OLing once a week but as Barto said you have to watch volumes (although you have to do the same with flat sprinting too). I've actually found that hill sprints are a little less draining on the CNS than flat ground sprints of similar distance and intensity.

As for recommendations, it looks like you triple your volume over the first three weeks. You could probably get away with doing up to 15 x 10 initially and this would make the transition to the 30s easier / less taxing. Also, 3 x 6 x 40m is quite a bit of sprinting. That's 720m of acceleration work. That's probably twice would I'd ever attempt for acceleration development. People pull it off but I don't think I'd try….unless that's all you were going to do for the day.

ELITETRACK Founder

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 22, 2007 at 11:42 pm #66644

[quote author="senri" date="1190346189"]
I do hills twice a week on the same days i do weights and plyos
my progress is like this…

10x10m for a week and half
10x20m for a week and half
10x30m for a week and half
4x4x30m 2.5/5mins for a session
3x4x40m 2.5/5mins for a session
3x6x40m 2.5/5mins for a session

any suggestions?

Right now I'm doing hills and OLing once a week but as Barto said you have to watch volumes (although you have to do the same with flat sprinting too). I've actually found that hill sprints are a little less draining on the CNS than flat ground sprints of similar distance and intensity.

As for recommendations, it looks like you triple your volume over the first three weeks. You could probably get away with doing up to 15 x 10 initially and this would make the transition to the 30s easier / less taxing. Also, 3 x 6 x 40m is quite a bit of sprinting. That's 720m of acceleration work. That's probably twice would I'd ever attempt for acceleration development. People pull it off but I don't think I'd try….unless that's all you were going to do for the day.
[/quote]

I agree with Mike that hill work is less draining on the CNS esp in the gpp when the athletes are not capable of going 100% etc.  I don't think 3x6x40m is too much hill work, I think Danny has had similar success with these type of hill volumes.

[senri]

senri on September 23, 2007 at 5:49 am #66645

interesting i figured the volume was getting to high. It hasn't affected me tremendously yet, only in power cleans i notice the progression seems to have slowed or it is feeling tough. Now im just wondering how i should re-organize this so i can adept to 40m hill sprints as of now?

  I was thinking in the next two weeks of training 3 times a week and doing tempo twice a week (will impact my bodyfat probably).

monday – hills – 8x30m with 3 mins rest btw reps
              olys and plyos
tue – tempo/core conditioning
wed – hills – 6x30m with 3 mins rest btw reps
thurs – tempo
fri – 4x30m hill sprints with 3 mins rest btw reps
      olys, and plyos

[senri]

senri on September 23, 2007 at 5:53 am #66646

I agree with Mike that hill work is less draining on the CNS esp in the gpp when the athletes are not capable of going 100% etc.  I don't think 3x6x40m is too much hill work, I think Danny has had similar success with these type of hill volumes.

yeah but thats danny were talking about, he probably has lots of work capacity behind him. Also with these hill volumes im progressing the intensity of my power clean. So im gonna be attacked by two horns soon unless depress one or another. I just dont know how to do it in a way that will affect my adaptation.

However my work capacity has improved, my cardio doing tempos is improving very well i might add. i seem to run faster and take shorter rests, however if i want to go longer i rest abit longer and can do more volume but going past 3000m can be tough at times.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 23, 2007 at 6:10 am #66647

[quote author="utfootball4" date="1190484800"]

I agree with Mike that hill work is less draining on the CNS esp in the gpp when the athletes are not capable of going 100% etc.  I don't think 3x6x40m is too much hill work, I think Danny has had similar success with these type of hill volumes.

yeah but thats danny were talking about, he probably has lots of work capacity behind him. Also with these hill volumes I'm progressing the intensity of my power clean. So I'm gonna be attacked by two horns soon unless depress one or another. I just dont know how to do it in a way that will affect my adaptation.

However my work capacity has improved, my cardio doing tempos is improving very well i might add. i seem to run faster and take shorter rests, however if i want to go longer i rest abit longer and can do more volume but going past 3000m can be tough at times.
[/quote]

you are a confused young man.  hill work DO NOT tax you the way flat sprints would, the hill work may be high volume but its not extreme. you right we are talking about danny but the school danny came from is a div 3 school and those athletes dont seem to  have a problem handling those volumes.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 23, 2007 at 7:22 am #66648

I don't think 3x6x40m is too much hill work, I think Danny has had similar success with these type of hill volumes.

Danny's weight workout wasn't what most of us would consider demanding on the CNS. Under these circumstances, 720m of acc. dev on a hill could work; but if you're trying to hammer hard in the weight room than I think it would be too much for most athletes.

ELITETRACK Founder

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 23, 2007 at 7:29 am #66649

[quote author="utfootball4" date="1190484800"]I don't think 3x6x40m is too much hill work, I think Danny has had similar success with these type of hill volumes.

Danny's weight workout wasn't what most of us would consider demanding on the CNS. Under these circumstances, 720m of acc. dev on a hill could work; but if you're trying to hammer hard in the weight room than I think it would be too much for most athletes.
[/quote]

I think you make a great point, but i believed danny was following the older workouts, from what i hear there thrower coach is in charge of the lifting an has been for several yrs now its alot more intense. also danny recovery time was very short between reps – run up/walk down approach.

[senri]

senri on September 23, 2007 at 7:43 am #66650

yeah i understand ufootball, but what danny can do and i is i different, i am injury prone and gotta take it easy. Danny's workout isn't exactly taking it easy, i think the workouts listed by him are worked up from years of training.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 23, 2007 at 7:46 am #66651

yeah i understand ufootball, but what danny can do and i is i different, i am injury prone and gotta take it easy. Danny's workout isn't exactly taking it easy, i think the workouts listed by him are worked up from years of training.

Ok, do what you think is best. goodluck.