[9000]

9000 on September 16, 2003 at 1:26 am #8586

he is current week set up:
mon: long hill (any where 90m to 120m
tues: interval tempo (600's on week, then 500s, then 400's, then 300's)
wed: off
thursday: tempo
friday: short hill sprints. (30m to 60m)
when should you start to put in se work. before this current set up (will be used for 4 weeks)

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 16, 2003 at 6:00 am #22296

Your setup looks good for General Prep.

[9000]

9000 on September 16, 2003 at 6:12 am #22297

i am still concerned bout acc. dev. wont the lack of track work limit the ability to do this, since the hills are longer that 30m?
sorry the hills on friday are anywhere 50m -120m

[400stud]

400stud on September 16, 2003 at 7:09 am #22298

Do it on grass at first and as you get more access to a track, began doing your speed work on the track.

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 16, 2003 at 8:08 am #22299

I second what 400stud said.

Your accel development right now is in place since you are doing 30 meter hills. You can wait a few weeks before doing accel. on flat ground. I personally use my short hills as accel devel. in GPP for the first few weeks.

[400stud]

400stud on September 16, 2003 at 8:20 am #22300

Is it bad to do acc. dev. one day and then short hills another in the same week? I did that for a bit and it didn't seem to hurt too much.

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 16, 2003 at 8:53 am #22301

no its not bad to do but remember that is 2 hard days which leads room for one more. Plan accordingly. So i am assuming your other day would be intensive tempo or you could probably even get away with doing Stairs and Extensive tempo. Remeber its all about how your body feels. Accel devel. and hills are not thattttttt hard on the CNS as compared to max velocity work.

[9000]

9000 on September 16, 2003 at 9:49 am #22302

true but i like to incorperate high rebound skips or bounding after acc. dev. days to keep the hips working and see how i hold form depending if the session was mainly 10m reps or 30m reps.
there is no way i can do it on grass at all, the team goes to the hill so i must go also.

[400stud]

400stud on September 16, 2003 at 10:49 am #22303

I do Int. Tempo the third day.

Long skips, bounds, etc. I save for SPP and beyond because GPP I'm not in shape enough to challenge my body with something so CNS demanding. But, I like doing them as well and also piggy-backing them on speed days.

Quik – If I did stairs/ext. tempo one day, that would be 3 days Ext. Tempo and 2 CNS days making for a fairly easy week. Would you suggest something like that in GPP? I've seen people start off with 2 hard days and after awhile go to 3, but I was wondering your thoughts on the subject.

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 17, 2003 at 12:09 am #22304

post options of both setups and i will comment.

[pete]

pete on September 17, 2003 at 4:29 am #22305

I've found that days shouldn't just be divided into hard and easy, but more like:
CNS tax hard, muscular tax moderate-fairly hard (ex. 10*30m)
Muscular tax hard, CNS tax moderate (ex. special/speed endurance/split runs, accumulation weights)
Specific muscular tax hard, CNS tax low (ex. depletion pushups, chinups, squats, lunges, distance running A's etc.)
etc.

When everything starts being categorized like this its easy to see how every week, and especially during GPP doesn't just have to fit the 3 or 2 hard, 3 easy template.

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 17, 2003 at 5:46 am #22306

Pete Good point! i was just simplifying it too much.

I consider my "hard" days as hard CNS days. Such as max velocity work. And i consider anything that is just hard on the muscular system but moderate or light on the CNS moderate days. But you stated it well.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 17, 2003 at 8:16 am #22307

Nice points Pete.

I think this has been a nice discussion so far and I agree with most posts. I definitely think it's ok and even advantageous to do acc. dev. and either resisted runs, hills, or stadium stairs during the same week. This is especially true during GPP.

As a side note / question: 9000, aren't you a decathlete? If so, why are you doing so much endurance type running and so little acc. dev.? I think that acc. dev. is HUGE for a decathlete because it's a primary factor for success in 6 or 7 of the events. Are you really out of shape or need to build a good fitness base? If so, I think general fitness is more important to a decathlete than running endurance or speed endurance and general fitness can be developed in many more ways than just running. In addition, most of these ways (general strength, weights, med ball, practice sequence, etc.) will be more specific to the event than running intervals.

ELITETRACK Founder

[400stud]

400stud on September 17, 2003 at 8:37 am #22308

[i]Originally posted by QUIKAZHELL[/i]
post options of both setups and i will comment.

3 Ext. Tempo days:
Monday – Ext. Tempo
Tuesday – Int. Tempo
Wednesday – Bleachers/Ext. Tempo
Thursday – Hills
Friday – Ext. Tempo
Saturday – Long warmup/strides

or with 1 acc. dev. and 1 hills day:
Monday – Acc. Dev.
Tuesday/Thursday – Ext. Tempo
Wednesday – Int. Tempo
Friday – Hill Sprints
Saturday – Long warmup/strides

The second one is the one I do for GPP because I don't really let myself get so out of shape that I feel the need to really start off with only 2 hard days. However, I have seen people only go 2 hard days for like the 1st meso and then progress to 3.

Mike, what are your comments on this?

BTW – that black (was blue until I changed my theme) blankness is still there. Could it just be my account? Do I have to re-register to eliminate it?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 17, 2003 at 8:44 am #22309

[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
BTW – that black (was blue until I changed my theme) blankness is still there. Could it just be my account? Do I have to re-register to eliminate it?

I believe I just resolved it….at least I think I did. It was a result of me installing the cell rollover hack. Please let me know if you're still seeing whacked out forum displays.

ELITETRACK Founder

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 17, 2003 at 8:55 am #22310

I personally like setup 1 better but 2 is also fine. But dont you have a hard time doing hills after a day of intensive tempo?
Id rather put more of my efforts into the hills so i think if i were to use that setup id switch friday and saturday. Just a thought. But then again i dont train 6 days a week during GPP.

Right now im going like this….

Monday-Intensive Tempo
Tuesday-Extensive Tempo/Hurdle Mobility
Wed-Pool temo (drills/deep water running)
Thursday-Short hill accelerations
Friday-Extensive Tempo

This will change soon and i may be doing 2 days of hills one day for acceleration and one day longer hills.

However i dont like to start accel. on flat ground the first few weeks but notice i AM getting my aceel. development work in form the hills.

[400stud]

400stud on September 17, 2003 at 9:06 am #22311

Mike – yeah it's fixed. Thanks.

Quik – It doesn't bother me at all doing Int. Tempo 2 days b4 hills. I like it. It goes medium, easy, hard as far as CNS stress for the 3 CNS days during the week. I also like doing Acc. Dev. on flat ground as well as short hill sprints in the same week for the strength development component of acc. and the pure accelerating component of acc. You know, explode hard and drive? I understand where you are coming from, though.

I may start off w/2 hill days and 1 acc. dev. day (on grass) with one hill day devoted to GS exercises and the other devoted to the sprints. Then go to 1 hill day of both short sprints and GS, 1 Int. Tempo day, and 1 acc. dev. day. Thoughts?

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 17, 2003 at 9:20 am #22312

ooo, i misread setup 2, i thought you did hills the day after int.tempo,, now i realized that you have a day of ext. tempo in between. Thats looks alot better!

I actually think that is the setup i will start using next week possibly with the accel on monday uphill. We'll see. Good ideas though.

[400stud]

400stud on September 17, 2003 at 9:23 am #22313

I agree with the good ideas. Maybe we should get some threads started revolving around different training ideas for different events based on phase. Whatcha think? Interested?

Mike – Do you think we could even maybe have a forum over suggestions on phases rather than another 'vague' (not criticizing) FAQ article? I think it would be good if people got involved.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 17, 2003 at 11:42 am #22314

400stud-
I like your second setup much better. It seems much more well-rounded. As for starting with only 2 hard days a week, I really don't think that's necessary unless someone were extremely out of shape. Even then, I think the added benefit of going hard 3x a week would outweigh any potential detriments, especially if the training were planned correctly and the volumes and intensities were appropriate for the given fitness level.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 17, 2003 at 11:43 am #22315

[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
I agree with the good ideas. Maybe we should get some threads started revolving around different training ideas for different events based on phase. Whatcha think? Interested?

Sounds good.

Mike – Do you think we could even maybe have a forum over suggestions on phases rather than another 'vague' (not criticizing) FAQ article? I think it would be good if people got involved.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting….a new forum? What would the topic be?

ELITETRACK Founder

[400stud]

400stud on September 17, 2003 at 7:02 pm #22316

I wrote that when I was tired, and I still agree with the first part, but the 2nd part about the new forum is null.

We need to just get it going under the "Training Theory" forum. Start 1-2 threads at a time, like maybe one on GPP training for 100/200 runners and one on GPP training for 200/400 runners or something like that and then after a topic goes dead, maybe then start working on SPP and/or different events like the 800m. See what I'm saying now?

[9000]

9000 on September 17, 2003 at 9:40 pm #22317

mike- its true i am a decathlete,but the set up as described is what the coach has for the first 4-6 weeks. The coach himself is a decathlete. He feels this the way to go, we do not start acc dev until indoor season. On another note i am in good shape i dont feel the need for the amount of intervals and general conditiong as you pointed out. i probally could run a 48 sec 400 as of now. i really worked the extensive tempo and acc dev this summer and have found the benifits i wish it could continue.:( but oh well