What is the best way to increase your hurdle speed. Sould you concentrate on mostly sprinting workouts if you have good form or practice over the hurdles higher or lower than race height?
How to increase hurdle speed.
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KeymasterI would do a lot of sprinting workouts with much of it going over hurdles. Also, I would never recommend practicing over hurdles that are higher than competition height or spaced further apart than in a competition for the very reason that you will have lower arousal and be running at lower speeds in practice which would make the above adjustments a recipe for mistakes.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
I posted this in another discussion but I never got a response from anyone there. . . . .
I hear different people talk about reducing the spacing of hurdles during speed workouts. Exactly how much would you reduce them? Is there a particular distance you reduce them, or do you just randomly shorten the distance?
Also, do you use LOWER than normal height, or race height?
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Keymaster
[i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
I hear different people talk about reducing the spacing of hurdles during speed workouts. Exactly how much would you reduce them? Is there a particular distance you reduce them, or do you just randomly shorten the distance?I would always recommend using a regulated change in distance, otherwise you risk taking the all-important rhythmicity out of the sprint hurdles. I typically use a 1 foot forward "cheat" for every hurdle. This means that the 1st hurdle will be moved one foot forward, the 2nd hurdle will be moved 2 feet forward, and so on. The cheat distance can be greater or less but 1 foot seems to work well and simplifies the process. Also, many times, I don't cheat the first hurdle in which case subsequent "cheats" will be altered (i.e.- 2nd hurdle will only have a 1 foot cheat, etc.).
Also, do you use LOWER than normal height, or race height?
I most often use lower than normal height but regulation height can be used depending on the athlete. I've even mix and matched heights in a flight with the first hurdle being low and all subsequent hurdles being high.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Yep, when I was first learning to adjust to three strides in between hurdles (which I still havent perfected) heres what I did. I moved in the hurdles about a foot and dropped them down a knotch (like Mike said) except for the first hurdle. After you feel as if you are sprinting through the hurdles than you start to move them back to regulation spacing and height until you are completely adjusted. Also, to work on that first stride upon landing and your takeoff you could do hurdle drills in which the 2nd hurdle is moved in closer to the first hurdle so that you only have a chance to take one long stride before having to launch again. This helps to train your body to not shorten the first stride over the hurdle and gain confidence in your launches.
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Participant
when we practice we put the hurdles a whole hurdle base in on the 2nd hurdle, 2 on the third and so one. i'm 6' 5" so this help me get my fast rhythm, then we put the hurdles back on the regular marks and go at them hard and try to keep the fast rhythm. we never practice on anything less that 42"
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Keymaster
Wow. I've never heard of someone cheating the hurdles forward that much for collegiate level hurdlers, especially for tall guys! We have a 6'7 decathlete and he has trouble with the competition hurdles actually being too close. We can only cheat him 1 foot / hurdle. Out of curiosity, how fast are you on the flat and also is this something everyone does (the 1 hurdle base cheat) or just you?
Also, on an unrelated topic, Is sean still at ISU coaching jumpers?
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
Also, on an unrelated topic, Is sean still at ISU coaching jumpers?In my best authoritative voice:
"Lets keep this forum on topic. If you wanna talk about jumpers and coaches then start another forum please." 😀
I LOVE this new sense of authority! jk
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Participant
On a serious note:
Is one foot for the 1st hurdle and one additional foot for each subsequent hurdle the way to do it, or do I have it mixed up?
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by ws100[/i]
The first hurdle move up 1 foot, the second hurdle move up 2 feet, the third hurdle move up 3 feet… continue with the desired amount of hurdles.When you say one foot, do you mean as in 12 inches, or one shoe length?
Also, would only one foot be enough to teach someone to 3 step and also increase hurdle speed? Wouldn't 2-3 steps be more helpful?
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Keymaster
I just gauge the "cheat distance" by the rhythm and hurdle proficiency of the athlete. 1 foot is actually the SMALLEST cheat I'd use. For example, if the athlete were having trouble sprinting between the hurdles a 3 foot cheat on each hurdle might be necessary. As they become better, you can just shorten the "cheat distance."
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
i've never run the 100. i run a 55 in the 400 hurdles. i run 14.5 – .6 over 42 inches.
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Participant
If you are training someone to three-step (get faster over each hurdle), is moving the hurdles in closer the only way to do it? I ask this because I know of a coach that does these weird drills where the runner first start out one stepping over the hurdles at medium speed (obviously they are VERY close – he says this is for rhythm). Next, he extends the distance a little further and makes the runner one step at a fast pace. Then, he extends the spacings and makes the runner two step (same protocol as the one step drill). Finally he extends it yet again and has them three step over the hurdles.
Now I'm all for doing whatever is necessary to make a hurdler better, but is all that this coach is doing really necessary? If the objective is to three step, wouldn't it be more logical to simply practice three stepping with the hurdles at a close spacing, then extend that spacing as they improve their speed at each respective spacing until they are able to three step at race distance?
Thoughts?
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Participant
they key is what you observe as a coach and what the stop watch says between the hurdles. Train for a desirable touchdown time or slightly faster in practice and adjust the hurdles to get those times.
If you want to be faster over the top, you can also lengthen the hurdles so that you are 5 stepping with the same average stride length as the 3 steps. That way you are bringing more velocity to the hurdle than with just 3 steps. Therefore your body must learn to prepare for take off, take off, rearrange, and touchdown at higher velocities.
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Keymaster
[i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
If you are training someone to three-step (get faster over each hurdle), is moving the hurdles in closer the only way to do it? I ask this because I know of a coach that does these weird drills where the runner first start out one stepping over the hurdles at medium speed (obviously they are VERY close – he says this is for rhythm). Next, he extends the distance a little further and makes the runner one step at a fast pace. Then, he extends the spacings and makes the runner two step (same protocol as the one step drill). Finally he extends it yet again and has them three step over the hurdles.There are always many roads to Rome so I'd never say this couldn't be done. Some roads however will bring you to Rome faster than others though. I've seen people do things like this but I don't really think it's all that effective. Neither Gary Winkler or Dennis Shaver (2 of the best hurdle coaches in the world) use hurdle drills at all (they are however working with collegiate and elite athletes).
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
[i]Originally posted by RonG[/i]
If you want to be faster over the top, you can also lengthen the hurdles so that you are 5 stepping with the same average stride length as the 3 steps. That way you are bringing more velocity to the hurdle than with just 3 steps. Therefore your body must learn to prepare for take off, take off, rearrange, and touchdown at higher velocities.Very nice point. Thanks Ron.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
[quote][i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
If you are training someone to three-step (get faster over each hurdle), is moving the hurdles in closer the only way to do it? I ask this because I know of a coach that does these weird drills where the runner first start out one stepping over the hurdles at medium speed (obviously they are VERY close – he says this is for rhythm). Next, he extends the distance a little further and makes the runner one step at a fast pace. Then, he extends the spacings and makes the runner two step (same protocol as the one step drill). Finally he extends it yet again and has them three step over the hurdles.There are always many roads to Rome so I'd never say this couldn't be done. Some roads however will bring you to Rome faster than others though. I've seen people do things like this but I don't really think it's all that effective. Neither Gary Winkler or Dennis Shaver (2 of the best hurdle coaches in the world) use hurdle drills at all (they are however working with collegiate and elite athletes). [/quote]Who is Gary Winkler?
Do you think, IYO, that hurdle drills would be more useful, thus more effective with high schoolers?
Are you saying that what I described this coach as doing is something I should follow with my hurdlers?
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by RonG[/i]
they key is what you observe as a coach and what the stop watch says between the hurdles. Train for a desirable touchdown time or slightly faster in practice and adjust the hurdles to get those times.If you want to be faster over the top, you can also lengthen the hurdles so that you are 5 stepping with the same average stride length as the 3 steps. That way you are bringing more velocity to the hurdle than with just 3 steps. Therefore your body must learn to prepare for take off, take off, rearrange, and touchdown at higher velocities.
How far, on average, should the hurdles be moved apart from normal race distance to practice this 5 stepping drill you proposed?
I read alot of the posts you've had on hurdling and I really respect your opinions concerning them. Who are some of the hurdlers that have come through your program down there at JU?
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Participant
5 step stuff can be done between 11 and 13 meters depending on the velocity of the athlete. i failed to mention that i would make sure that i had a 3 step hurdle on each side of a 5 step. so for example we may go blocks to hurdle 1 at reg height and distance then a reduced 3 step hurdle then a 5 step at 11-13 m then another 3 step reduced hurdle. it is over that last hurdle that they must accomidate the new velocity created in the 5 step segment.
ju is a small private division 1 school with only a women's program. our 2 best hurdlers who both graduated this year were 13.56 and 13.76 girls. both were 14.80 kids in HS, one eventually finished 4th at NCAAs in hept.
mikes point about drills is a good one. i let the kids do drills in warm ups because they are accustomed to doing them, but I really pay no attention to technique. i care how they look over the hurdle at high speed. drills are nice for range of motion, some specific strength endurance, and as core muscle temp warm up. the same can likely be said for sprint drills. I am the "prettiest sprint drill doer" that I know, but sure can't run fast anymore. So there is little correlation.
Dennis Shaver is the LSU coach, Gary Winkler is the Illinois coach, both are level 2 instructors, and I am honored that they have asked me to mentor in with them this summer in Starkeville.
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Participant
Thank you for your help Ron.
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Participant
Coach Ron has some excellent points.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I'll throw out one of my favorite ways in putting more speed into the hurdles. Well placed when a plateau looks to have been reached.
—Fly in hurdles—
Athlete starts 20 meters behind start line and flys into the start line, 7 steps to first hurdle at normal distance, which is actually a 12 inch hurdle. 3 more beyond that at reduced from normal, 30" height for women.
Takes a rep or two to get it, but if done correctly there is quite a bit of speed brought into the hurdles. -
Participant
[i]Originally posted by todd[/i]
Coach Ron has some excellent points.I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I'll throw out one of my favorite ways in putting more speed into the hurdles. Well placed when a plateau looks to have been reached.
—Fly in hurdles—
Athlete starts 20 meters behind start line and flys into the start line, 7 steps to first hurdle at normal distance, which is actually a 12 inch hurdle. 3 more beyond that at reduced from normal, 30" height for women.
Takes a rep or two to get it, but if done correctly there is quite a bit of speed brought into the hurdles.Interesting.
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by RonG[/i]
Dennis Shaver is the LSU coach, Gary Winkler is the Illinois coach, both are level 2 instructors, and I am honored that they have asked me to mentor in with them this summer in Starkeville.Just a side note… This past summer in Starkville was my first level 2 seminar, and I must say it was an experience I will never forget. Many thanks to Ron, Mike, Dennis, Gary, and the other coaches, for all the help this summer. Hope to see you both back at James Madison this July.
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