[flight05]

flight05 on March 9, 2003 at 9:45 pm #8282

check this out…i found it quite interesting.

https://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/breakers/7118/edwards.zip

opinions?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 10, 2003 at 8:32 am #19072

I’ve tried several times and the site never comes up. Is there an alternate URL?

ELITETRACK Founder

[flight05]

flight05 on March 10, 2003 at 10:27 pm #19073

i guess you have to wait and try again, because the server’s bandwidth has been exceeded…

https://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/breakers/7118/

try again here^^

[Todd Lane]

Todd Lane on March 11, 2003 at 7:18 pm #19074

I opened the site up and win zipped the file.
It is a scanned copy of NSA from ’96 on Edwards strenth training. First page was in what I think was Italian, didn’t look any further, because it runs VERY slow.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 11, 2003 at 8:56 pm #19075

I finally was able to download the training article. Nothing too special there…..I’ve seen that article published in English in NSA I believe.

ELITETRACK Founder

[flight05]

flight05 on March 11, 2003 at 8:59 pm #19076

okay….it was interesting for me though…:P

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 12, 2003 at 4:12 am #19077

Sorry….didn’t mean it like that 😛 One thing you might want to take note of though is how low his volume is (with everything but especially his weight training) during his competitive phase. Keep that in mind when you’re putting together you’re training plans.

ELITETRACK Founder

[justdoit]

justdoit on April 12, 2003 at 10:01 am #19078

Guys, somebody tell me how to make this Edwards diary site work casue I tried tons of things and it didnt work

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on April 12, 2003 at 10:22 am #19079

id like to know too..:o:D:P

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 12, 2003 at 5:31 pm #19080

I couldn’t get the link to work the first 10 or so times I tried it but I think that was a bandwidth issue. It did eventually ended up opening for me though….this was about a month ago though.

I tried to open the link last night and it went to a default geocities page. This typically means the destination page that the link is supposed to lead to is no longer there or the link is bad (misspelled in the code or something).

You’d probably be better off trying to find the article in publication. I’ve seen the article published in NSA.

ELITETRACK Founder

[justdoit]

justdoit on April 22, 2003 at 6:49 am #19081

guys can someone plzzzzzzzz copy and paste J. Edwardses training diary here, the site doesnt work but i defenetly wonna see it………….:mad:
thx

[mikhail]

mikhail on April 28, 2003 at 11:25 am #19082

check out this page mike and tell me what you think…………its bout J. Edwards training

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 28, 2003 at 12:36 pm #19083

I don’t really like the single set of 10 “all-out” reps on Day 1. This especially doesn’t make sense to me if Jon was doing squats, cleans, and bench press with the same protocol on the same day for every week prior to outdoor.

I’ve talked with Mike Stone (current USOC Strength High Performance Specialist and former Strength Coach for Ireland) on several occasions and he told me quite a bit about Jonathan’s training. He did quite a bit of testing and work with Edwards. None of what he told me included the Day 1 protocol described in that article…..not that that necessarily means he didn’t do that at one point, I’ve just never heard of that kind of thing with Edwards. One thing I do like though is the simplicity of the program as well as the protocol for day 2.

I kind of get the impression from the article that the author of the article just wrote the article and didn’t know too much about Edwards training. For example:
“I am not sure how long this was done, but I will offer two ways of doing this depending on how long you plan to use this program.”

and

“I don’t know if assistance lifts were used….”

This doesn’t mean that it’s not a good article, just perhaps that it isn’t exactly Edwards training.

ELITETRACK Founder

[misha]

misha on April 28, 2003 at 10:57 pm #19084

mike, can you give us a general overview of what was his training like / do you use his method to train your athletes?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 29, 2003 at 9:24 am #19085

Hi Misha-
Welcome to the board. He really didn’t do anything to out of the ordinary….just a nice solid program. It didn’t seem like anything that a lot of the coaches who post here couldn’t have come up with. I do remember that his volume was very very low during the competitive season.

ELITETRACK Founder

[mikhail]

mikhail on April 30, 2003 at 12:18 am #19086

thx again mike:)
ps:misha is mikhail, i just used different comp so forgot the dmn pass even tho it was 3 letter long lol……..

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on November 1, 2006 at 6:04 am #19087

i like his training very simple

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on November 1, 2006 at 6:07 am #19088

My coach is best freinds with john edwards coach when he was jumping. i was at his house the ohter month when jonathan called him…was pretty weird…but hes a great guy. His training was very simple and towards the end of his career he didnt very little, mostly speed and olympic liftsm rarely did squats….

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on November 1, 2006 at 6:09 am #19089

My coach is best freinds with john edwards coach when he was jumping. i was at his house the ohter month when jonathan called him…was pretty weird…but hes a great guy. His training was very simple and towards the end of his career he didnt very little, mostly speed and olympic liftsm rarely did squats….

i like how he kept his training based around the ol/squats/bp nothing else. biggest bang for ur buck

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on November 1, 2006 at 7:18 am #19090

im reading this damn pdf file and what the hell is he doing 1 set of 10 for the ol?

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on November 1, 2006 at 7:25 am #19091

just read it as well…alot of that is bullshit, he didnt do half of it im sure…ill ask my coach what he actually did…and let you guys know for sure.

[lorien]

lorien on November 1, 2006 at 2:49 pm #19092

I don't really like the single set of 10 "all-out" reps on Day 1. This especially doesn't make sense to me if Jon was doing squats, cleans, and bench press with the same protocol on the same day for every week prior to outdoor.

I've talked with Mike Stone (current USOC Strength High Performance Specialist and former Strength Coach for Ireland) on several occasions and he told me quite a bit about Jonathan's training. He did quite a bit of testing and work with Edwards. None of what he told me included the Day 1 protocol described in that article…..not that that necessarily means he didn't do that at one point, I've just never heard of that kind of thing with Edwards. One thing I do like though is the simplicity of the program as well as the protocol for day 2.

I kind of get the impression from the article that the author of the article just wrote the article and didn't know too much about Edwards training. For example:
"I am not sure how long this was done, but I will offer two ways of doing this depending on how long you plan to use this program."

and

"I don't know if assistance lifts were used…."

This doesn't mean that it's not a good article, just perhaps that it isn't exactly Edwards training.

Observe the date of that article (2002), and remember it was in 1995 that the magic happened! I think a better source is indeed the 1996 presentation by Carl Johnson (his coach at that time), where he presented his handwritten day-by-day training diary from 1995 (January ??? August).

Clean, snatch and bench were the lifts (no squats, nor any other auxiliary lifts). Circuit approximately once a week, mostly 60m strides, and triple jumping. No tight, fixed, weekly schedule from the beginning of March.

First measured triple jump: 14.70m with 6-step approach on February 13. Then there???s a 16.60m with 10-step approach on March 24. 17.05m with 14-step approach on May 26! First competition: 17.58m on June 11. And, of course, 18.43w on June 25!

Note!: These weren???t all his jumping sessions, just some examples picked from his diary!

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 2, 2006 at 12:23 am #19093

Where can we find the presentation/1995 diary?  :smilegrin: 

Bench as one of the big 3 is interesting…think that's all that important for a triple jumper?  60m strides? I don't get it…as part of the circuit, you mean? Otherwise strides for speed development sounds like what cross country runners do. Triple jumping lots and lots of short approach jumps I assume.

[lorien]

lorien on November 2, 2006 at 12:18 pm #19094

Where can we find the presentation/1995 diary?  :smilegrin: 

Bench as one of the big 3 is interesting…think that's all that important for a triple jumper?  60m strides? I don't get it…as part of the circuit, you mean? Otherwise strides for speed development sounds like what cross country runners do. Triple jumping lots and lots of short approach jumps I assume.

Well, when sprinting, 60m was usually the distance, especially from March onwards.

Short approach jumping yes, but in very reasonable volumes; when approach was short, then, approx. once a week; when the approach got longer (over ten steps), then, fewer times than once a week.

I???ll see if it???s possible to post the diary here on the forum (maybe in jpg-format or something). Perhaps it???s best to get approval from Mike first?

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 2, 2006 at 12:34 pm #19095

Thanks! Those couple of insights clarified may just help guide a jumper better! I probably would have overdone it with the short approach jumps. Sprints @ 60m is definitely better sounding than strides. I like that!

It would be great to see the diary (Mike willing). If it's better to not post here, we'll survive.  :sniff:

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 2, 2006 at 1:08 pm #19096

Lorien-
I'm all for it. If you have any problems attaching the file email it to me and I'll post it.

ELITETRACK Founder

[lorien]

lorien on November 2, 2006 at 9:19 pm #19097

OK, I had some trouble attaching jpg-files so I decided to type his training by hand. This is a presentation of Jonathans training from February to July 1995.

Jonathan Edwards training 1995:

February 1995
1: Clean 3x6x85 ??? H.Snatch 3x6x55 ??? Bench 3x6x60 + 6 x 50m
2: End bounding + circuit
3: 4 x 130m
4:
5:
6: Snatch 3x6x60 ??? H.Clean 3x6x80 ??? Bench 3x6x60 + jumping routine from 6
7: 5 x 50m fast
8: Clean 3x6x90 ??? H.Snatch 3x6x55 ??? Bench 3x6x60 + 5 x 50m relaxed
9: 3×12 hops R+L ??? 3×12 steps – N° HS since legs sore + attempted circuit but felt faint
10: Snatch 3x6x60 + H.Clean 3x6x80 ??? Bench 3x6x65 + 5 x 140m
11: 
12:
13: Clean 3x6x90 ??? H.Snatch 3x6x55 ??? Bench 3x6x65 + Jumping session off 6 = 14.70
14: 4 x 50m fast (legs sore)
15: Snatch 3x6x60 + H.Clean 3x6x80 ??? Bench 3x6x60 + easy strides
16: End bounding + circuit
17: 6 x 130m relaxed and fast
18: H.Clean 3x6x85 ??? Bench 3x6x65 ??? Abdominals because restricted facilities
19:
20: Clean 3x6x90 ??? H.Snatch 3x6x60 ??? Bench 3x6x70 + Jumping session off 6&10
21: Racket ??? ball
22: Snatch 1x6x70: 2x6x65 ??? H.Clean 3x6x80 ??? Bench 3x6x70 + 4 x 50m relaxed 90% effort
23: End bounding + circuit
24: 
25:
26:
27: Leave Tallahassee
28: Arrive UK

March 1995
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7: Clean 4x4x90 ??? H.Snatch 4x4x65 ??? Bench 4x4x75 + medicine ball work
8: 6 x 100m 80% in snow
9: Snatch 4x4x70 ??? H.Clean 4x4x95 + circuit
10: 5 x 60m fast (quite tired) ++ Jumping sess from 6 14.60: 15.20: 14.80: 15.05
11: Clean 4x4x100 ??? H.Snatch 4x4x65 ??? Bench 4x4x75
12:
13: Snatch 4x4x70 ??? H.Clean 4x4x95 ??? Bench 4x4x75
14: 6 x 100m
15: Clean 4x4x100 ??? H.Snatch 4x4x65 ??? Bench 4x4x75
16: Circuits
17: 6 x 60m + Jumping sess 15.00: 15.05
18: Slight back injury
19:
20: 4 x 100m (back sore + ham twinge)
21: Test ??? 11.7st ??? 12,5% bf ??? 68su ??? 53pu ??? 302 slj
22:
23: Circuit test ++ Bench 92.5
24: 5 x 60m ++ Jumping sess 16.60 from 10 very flat + Test completion 1525os ??? 3.62 30m
25: Light lifting session
26:
27: ???Working weights back in??? ??? Bench 4×80 ??? 3×85 ??? 2×90 ??? 1×92.5 ??? 1×95 (fast)
28: Snowing ??? short indoor bounding session
29: H.Clean 3×80/85/90 ??? Snatch 3×60/65/70 + 6 x 60m relaxed
30: 6 x 60m ++ Circuits
31:

April 1995
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10: Clean 3x3x115 (v. explosive) ??? H.Snatch 3x3x75 ??? Bounding (some fatigue after Saturday) 
11: 6 x 60m
12: Snatch 1x3x80: 2x3x82.5 ??? Bench 3x3x75 ??? H.Clean 2x3x105 + strides (slight quad twinge)
13: Circuits
14:
15: Bench 1x3x87.5 ??? Easy clean and Snatch
16:
17:
18: Test ??? 11.2st ??? 10.1% bf ??? 72su ??? 57pu ??? 1518osp ??? 3.54 30m ??? 306slj
19: Test 90 Snatch & 100 Bench (no fails) + easy strides
20: Circuit test including Ergojump which ruined legs
21: Sore legs wiped out jumping sess
22: ???& lifting sess
23:
24: Clean 4×110 ??? 3×115 ??? 2×120 ??? 1×125 ??? 1×130 ??? Bench 3×3 (2) x90 + Hurd bounds & strides
25: 2 x 60m easy + 4x 60m fast
26: Snatch 3x3x82.5 ??? H.Snatch 3x3x75 ??? Hurd Jumps + Skill session on arms
27: Circuits
28: Jumping sess 10st couldn???t jump cos bad pos @ TO:14st 16.50: 16.30: 16.30: 16.30: 16.30
29: Clean 3x3x115 ??? Bench 3x3x90 + strides (fatigued)
30:

May 1995
1: Snatch 3x3x82.5 ??? H.Snatch 3x3x75 ??? Hurd Jumps & strides
2: 5 x 60m fast (V. good)
3: Clean 3x3x115 ??? H.Clean 3x3x105 (both good) + Hurd Jumps & strides
4: Circuits (2x only not too well)
5:
6: Snatch 3x3x82.5 ??? Bench 3x3x90 + Hurd Jumps
7:
8:
9: H.Snatch 3×75 ??? 2×77.5 ??? 1×80 ??? 1×82.5 + 5 x 50m
10: Clean 3x3x115 ??? H.Clean 3x3x105 (adductor stiff)
11: Circuits x 4
12: Bench 3x3x90 ++ Jumping sess 10st 15.60: 16.10 (several run-throughs) 14st 16.65: 16.60 (legs tired)
13: Snatch 3x3x82.5 ??? H.Snatch 3x3x75 (very tired)
14:
15:Weights test Clean 132.5 & Bench 102.5 (slow)
16: Test ??? 11.5st ??? 9.6% bf ??? 73su ??? 62pu ??? 1533osp ??? 3.59 (outside cold) 314slj (fatigued)
17:
18: Circuit test
19:
20:
21:
22: Snatch 92.5 ??? Bench 4×85 ??? 3×90 ??? 2×95 ??? 1×100 ??? 1×102.5 + Hurd Jumps & strides
23: 4 x 60m
24: H.Clean 4×100 ??? 3×105 ??? 2x 110 ??? 2 fail @ 115 (mentally slack) + Hurd Jumps
25: Circuit
26: Jumping sess 14st 16.45: RT: RT: 17.05: RT: RT (6.35/4.65/6.05)
27: H.Snatch 4×70 ??? 3×75 ??? 2×80 ??? 1×85 ??? Bench 4×85 ??? 3×90 ??? 2×95 ??? 1×105 (fail) ??? 1×105
28:
29:
30: 30m 4.12 ??? 60m 6.94 (4.08) ??? 60m 6.91 (4.05) ??? 60m 6.94 (4.07)
31: Clean 4×115 ??? 3×120 ??? 2×125 ??? 1×130 (fail) ??? 1×130 (fail)

June 1995
1: Circuits (v. stiff)
2: Jumping sess 14st 16.55: 16.70: RT ??? 18st 16.50: 16.70: RT v.fast (still stiff)
3: Snatch 4×80 ??? 3×82.5 ??? 2×85 ??? 1×90 ??? 1 close fail 95 (vv good) ??? Bench 5×85 ??? 4×90 ??? 3×95 ??? 2×105 ??? 1×107.5 + stretching (good)
4:
5: Clean 5x 110 ??? 4x 115 ??? 3x 120 ??? 2x 125 ??? 1×130 ??? 1×132.5 (vv good) + Hurd Jumps & strides
6: 30m 4.04 ??? 60m 6.87 (4.01)(10.45mps) ??? 60m 6.84 (4.02)(10.64mps) ??? 60m 6.95 (4.06)(10.38mps)
7: Snatch 5×75 ??? 4×80 ??? 3×85 ??? 2×90 ??? 1×95 (fail) ??? 1×95 (exellent) + few strides
8:
9: Clean 5×110 ??? 4x 115 ??? 3x 120 ??? 2x 125 ??? 1x 130 9am training (physically & mentally low)
10: Bench 5×85 ??? 4×90 ??? 3×95 ??? 2×100 ??? 1×105
11: AAA x Loughborough 17.01 8+1.4) NJ 17.58 (+1.2)
12:
13: Snatch 5×75 ??? 4x 80 ??? 3x 85 ??? 2x 90 ??? 1x 95 (lifted well but slightly lethargic)
14: 60m 6.34 ??? 60m 6.76 (4.00)(10.86mps) ??? 60m 7.02 (headwind)
15: Clean 5×110 ??? 4×115 ??? 3×120 ??? 2x 125 ??? 1×130 ??? 1×135
16: Snatch 5×85 ??? 4x 90 ??? 3×95 ??? 2×100 ??? 1×105 ??? 1×110 (fast) + strides
17: Competition Lille ??? 16.90: 17.46: 17.22 (70 off board) Wet conditions didn't carry speed through well
18:
19: Snatch 90 ??? 97 ??? 3 fails @100 (2nd v. close)
20: 30m 4.02 ??? 60m 6.88 (4.02)(10.48mps) ??? 60m 6.90 (3.99)(10.30mps) ??? 60m 6.89 (4.02)(10.45mps)
21: Bench 110 + strides (hay fever)
22: Clean 125 ??? 3fails @135 + few strides
23: travel Lille
24: Warm up and strides spikes
25: Competition 17.90 (+2.5): 18.43 (+2.4): 17.72 (+0.5): 18.39 (+3.7)  :thumbup:
26: Sore L achillesw
27:
28:Snatch 3x3x85 (1st set lethargic others better)
29: Bench 3x3x95 (good) + 3 x 50m (good) ankle still sore
30: Clean 3x3x120

[mortac8]

mortac8 on November 2, 2006 at 9:45 pm #19098

Fascinating.  He is 10%+ bodyfat early on and up to just a month before his 18.43

[Josh Hurlebaus]

Josh Hurlebaus on November 3, 2006 at 12:45 am #19099

16: Test ??? 11.5st

That  means 11.5 stone, right? I can't believe he only weighed 160 lbs yet lifted such insane numbers.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 3, 2006 at 7:19 am #19100

Fascinating.  He is 10%+ bodyfat early on and up to just a month before his 18.43

I imagine this was using a bodpod or hydrostatic weighing. These methods are far less used and far more accurate and they tend to give higher readings than the far more popular caliper measurement which can produce results up to 5% points lower than the true reading.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 3, 2006 at 7:27 am #19101

Thanks Lorien. A couple things really stand out:
*very low training volume
*seems to be somewhat haphazzard administration / distribution of speed and strength work
*very little general / low intensity work (most of the work appears to be high intensity)
*amazing how many back to back days off including one whole week off
*amazing how few technical training days

It's tough to really assess the worktouts without putting it in complete context (for example was he doing a 75 minute dynamic warmup routine before each session or a 5 minute jog) but it looks like his daily training could be finished in 15-60 minutes each day.

Also, it would be interesting to know what 'circuits' consist of. They seem to appear on a fairly regular basis and depending on what it is it could fill in many of the question marks in his training program.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on November 3, 2006 at 8:10 am #19102

14: 60m 6.34 ??? 60m 6.76 (4.00)(10.86mps) ??? 60m 7.02 (headwind)

what was this 60m time (6.34 !!!!) ? ? ? ? im assuming he was using electronic timing but this cant be right…is it?

[mortac8]

mortac8 on November 3, 2006 at 8:20 am #19103

14: 60m 6.34 ??? 60m 6.76 (4.00)(10.86mps) ??? 60m 7.02 (headwind)

what was this 60m time (6.34 !!!!) ? ? ? ? im assuming he was using electronic timing but this cant be right…is it?

It's all British propaganda :dance:

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 3, 2006 at 8:31 am #19104

It's all British propaganda :dance:

Great stuff….kinda like the Soviet disinformation program that was used in the 70s and 80s….12 hour training sessions, surgical muscle insertion changes, 800 lb squats by women, yada yada.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on November 3, 2006 at 8:47 am #19105

i just copied and pasted it all to my coach…he was ONE of the people who coached him over like a 10 year period…he'll tell me if its all true…i asked him to tell me all his true maxes and PB's…i'll let you all know soon…

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 3, 2006 at 8:52 am #19106

I was just joking. I'm pretty sure it's true. I've spoken with Mike Stone who worked with Edwards on his strength work and he confirmed the infrequency of lifting, the lack of variety in exercises, and the astounding PRs.

ELITETRACK Founder

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 3, 2006 at 12:59 pm #19107

lorien, thank you for posting. This is like opening a treasure chest. It's unbelievable how low his volume was. I'm wondering if this snapshot of his training was the culmination of a two year plan. Maybe a year and a half leading up to this time, he spent building and building, with much more volume. That way, he could come off of it across a whole span of six months, w/ largely high intensity and low volume, and hold together nicely. Any idea on how he went about things in 1994? Maybe he forewent any major peak then and just worked through? And then again, maybe it is a good indicator that some advanced jumpers, who recruit many motor units, and who have only one event to worry about, are better suited to not overdoing it w/ all the plyos and weights, and just keeping things simple when the time is right. He really appeared to have an Olympic weightlifter's type of plan, with high intensity on consecutive days, just not draining the CNS pool too much. It's so easy to give in to the temptation that more is better and that the best are always outworking us. This diary may help keep things in perspective. Thanks again! This is like gold to me. Amazing!   

[lorien]

lorien on November 3, 2006 at 1:51 pm #19108

lorien, thank you for posting. This is like opening a treasure chest. It's unbelievable how low his volume was. I'm wondering if this snapshot of his training was the culmination of a two year plan. Maybe a year and a half leading up to this time, he spent building and building, with much more volume. That way, he could come off of it across a whole span of six months, w/ largely high intensity and low volume, and hold together nicely. Any idea on how he went about things in 1994? Maybe he forewent any major peak then and just worked through? And then again, maybe it is a good indicator that some advanced jumpers, who recruit many motor units, and who have only one event to worry about, are better suited to not overdoing it w/ all the plyos and weights, and just keeping things simple when the time is right. He really appeared to have an Olympic weightlifter's type of plan, with high intensity on consecutive days, just not draining the CNS pool too much. It's so easy to give in to the temptation that more is better and that the best are always outworking us. This diary may help keep things in perspective. Thanks again! This is like gold to me. Amazing!   

Nice theory… but no!  :police: No culmination. Actually Jonathan had a very disappointing 1994 year due to a virus infection (Epstein-Barr/mononucleosis). I saw him compete in 1994 and he was really low in every respect. So, he struggled through 1994 and then decided to completely rest the whole fall. He started training in January (after 4 months off). His only goal was to get back to 1993 shape ??? obviously he surpassed that by far, perhaps a little bit by accident too.

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 3, 2006 at 2:01 pm #19109

Incredible! So what we see from February on is basically the whole of his training macrocycle (minus January) leading up to the summer competitions?!! That seems miraculous!

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 3, 2006 at 2:45 pm #19110

…just had to come back to this. This is a head trip!!!  :puzzled:  And what of periodization schemes??? A few yrs. ago, I would have told you his journal is junk. It kind of turns one's world view topsy turvy a little bit.  :shocked2:  It's like Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Am I missing something here?!! There's got to be more to his training than that. God be with him  :saint: God be with him  :saint:

[lorien]

lorien on November 3, 2006 at 4:38 pm #19111

…just had to come back to this. This is a head trip!!!  :puzzled:  And what of periodization schemes??? A few yrs. ago, I would have told you his journal is junk. It kind of turns one's world view topsy turvy a little bit.  :shocked2:  It's like Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Am I missing something here?!! There's got to be more to his training than that. God be with him  :saint: God be with him  :saint:

Well, there are many ways of looking at periodization. In Jonathan???s training, it appears progression through intensification is much more valued than progression through standard periodization entities (cycles). On the other hand, there wasn???t really that much time either ??? he had to get in shape by summer (5 months). It???s interesting to note that intensification is taking place up till the best performance in triple jumping ever, without a traditional taper (although volume is drastically lowered). The last weeks before the 18.43w are really intense with many consecutive high intensity days in a row.

The training regimen is obviously HIGHLY individualized. This is also a factor that comes up when discussing training with him. He is/was extremely logical about what he should/shouldn???t do. It???s a minimalist approach for sure, and everything is valued against ???do I really need to do that???, if not, or in doubt, then drop it. That???s how squats were eliminated from the program ??? he didn???t think he needed them anymore. Making the system as simple as possible, gives you more opportunities to really feel for what you are doing and where you are going. There???s no reliance on ???the next cycle will do this and that, hopefully???. The fog that stands between the raw material and the end product is much thinner. Obviously it also becomes more important to really get a good FEEL for what you are doing and how you are progressing.

For me, a few things really stand out:
??? Extremely careful progression in loads (in weight training). I???m sure he could have lifted much higher loads in February-March already, yet he was very patient with getting into higher intensities.
??? Intensities in the weight room harmonize with other modalities (patience again); when weights go up, intensity in jumping does the same (hand-in-hand).
??? He is well prepared and adjusted for jumping with high speed; he is already in respectable lengths in March (16.60). That???s two months before first competition.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 4, 2006 at 8:07 am #19112

Here's the actual pages of the diary for validation. Courtesy of Lorien…
Jan-Feb
March-April
April-May
June-July
July-Aug

And also a pdf article from his coach.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on November 4, 2006 at 8:27 am #19113

Well, having spoken to my coach about the edwards training seen here…he told me that, firstly he was a one of a kind type athlete and he knew exactly what training was good for him. In 95 he was already 29 years old and from the ages 22-27 ish was when he did his plyometric work and high volume training…at 29, he didnt do a great deal, thus why his program seems a little strange…he was extremely gifted and knew exactly what he responded well too…i guess he did pretty well in his event…lol.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 5, 2006 at 5:30 am #19114

The weight circuits described in the paper serve the role of low-intensity, higher-volume general work. They are pretty infrequent though.

Another interesting thing about the program is his exclusive use of one heavy lift per day with no assistance exercises. I've done this before with good effect but I've found it gets hard to balance strength levels and also many athletes tend to get bored on such a program.

ELITETRACK Founder

[cerebro]

cerebro on November 5, 2006 at 5:47 am #19115

what do you mean by balance strength levels mike

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 6, 2006 at 5:44 am #19116

I was referring generally to balance….unilateral strength balance, upper-lower body strength balance, strength balance across movements. I'd like my athletes to be STRONG. Not just strong in the squat or strong in the clean. I think you'd find the best athletes have strenth that carries over to a wide range of movements. While specificity is certainly important it can be easy to forget what you are really training for. For example, many people seem to equate strength gains in the squat (or any other lift for that matter) 1:1 with speed performances when in fact this is rarely the case. While strength gains in the squat (or any other movement) may be indicative of enhanced neural efficiency it is not always reflective of overall strength which I think is equally important.

ELITETRACK Founder

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 10, 2006 at 1:07 pm #19117

If anyone is curious to see if Jonathan Edwards' training from 1995 can be replicated w/ great success, I am your guinea pig. Sure it is unconventional wisdom to follow a cookie cutter model. Don't lie to me, you're all curious. I am more than willing to replicate the training for the outdoor season. Hell, what have I got to lose? I've done worse experiments.

Sound good then?  :thumbup: or  :thumbdown: ??  Ha ha!  :laugh:  Smart coaches have feared this outcome, but curious jumpers can cheer!

[RunnerMan]

RunnerMan on November 10, 2006 at 1:27 pm #19118

sweet, go ahead  :thumbup:

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 10, 2006 at 1:31 pm #19119

ok then

[lorien]

lorien on November 10, 2006 at 6:29 pm #19120

Variato delectat sed natura non facit saltus: diari Jonathan Edwards non scriptura sacra est, ergo non deus ex macina in triple jump est.

In other words: Noooooooooooooooooooo!

???although, maybe something of the sort?

If you like to follow a similar path, then by all means go for it; I know you feel tempted to anyway! I kind of anticipated that after reading your training diary (Fri. 11/3). But you have to modify it into suiting your needs??? really! Perhaps we can help you out a little bit in simplifying your program into that kind of direction? Make a sketch for us to comment on before you decide anything!

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on November 10, 2006 at 7:29 pm #19121

yeah do it…but dont try to lift that kinda weight…haha…it will be good to ee how much you improve by.

[mortac8]

mortac8 on November 10, 2006 at 9:01 pm #19122

If anyone is curious to see if Jonathan Edwards' training from 1995 can be replicated w/ great success, I am your guinea pig. Sure it is unconventional wisdom to follow a cookie cutter model. Don't lie to me, you're all curious. I am more than willing to replicate the training for the outdoor season. Hell, what have I got to lose? I've done worse experiments.

Sound good then?  :thumbup: or  :thumbdown: ??  Ha ha!  :laugh:  Smart coaches have feared this outcome, but curious jumpers can cheer!

Do it.  I truly suck at triple jump but always trained my arse off for it in high school and early college before dropping it.  I jumped 38'6" in HS and like 38'5" early college before giving up.  I did a massively reduced workload at the recommendation of Kelly Baggett (kinda like Edwards training) early this summer and jumped 40'10" for a 2' PR.  And yes, I had been triple jumping a bit every year since HS in the 37s.

[flight05]

flight05 on November 11, 2006 at 3:37 am #19123

what did u reduce? how did u modify it

[mortac8]

mortac8 on November 11, 2006 at 10:06 pm #19124

what did u reduce? how did u modify it

I am on travel now…don't have my logs.  I basically dropped almost everything.  I did something like
Mon- sprint
Tue- clean, squat & snatch dl
wed- 1000m tempo
thur- rest
and I just repeated that.  It was very low volume… almost no technique work.

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 11, 2006 at 10:26 pm #19125

mortac8, that sounds sweet all that reduction in volume! it's funny how you can make a jump like that with your numbers after all those years just by switching things up. sounds refreshing, something to remember and try for when the meets come around. thanks for the insights.

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on November 11, 2006 at 10:38 pm #19126

[b]Variato delectat sed natura non facit saltus: diari Jonathan Edwards non scriptura sacra est, ergo non deus ex macina in triple jump est.
[/b]
In other words: Noooooooooooooooooooo!

???although, maybe something of the sort?

If you like to follow a similar path, then by all means go for it; I know you feel tempted to anyway! I kind of anticipated that after reading your training diary (Fri. 11/3). But you have to modify it into suiting your needs??? really! Perhaps we can help you out a little bit in simplifying your program into that kind of direction? Make a sketch for us to comment on before you decide anything!

lol.  :laugh: I got you speaking in tongues and stuff! that's funny. yeah, the changes would be for the outdoor season, so there will be nothing rash right now. I'll post sketches and drawings in a few months, once I get my racing thoughts and epiphanies in order.   

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 12, 2006 at 3:36 am #19127

Perhaps this relationship between reduced volume and triple jump success is due to the demand that the event places on elasticity. I know that Walter always jumped best under lower training loads however they were never as reduced as what JE has in his log.

ELITETRACK Founder

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on November 12, 2006 at 4:36 am #19128

Perhaps this relationship between reduced volume and triple jump success is due to the demand that the event places on elasticity. I know that Walter always jumped best under lower training loads however they were never as reduced as what JE has in his log.

i agree, i think there is a fine line btw reduced volume and over kill.  some of kelly b stuff is too low vol – athletes need to train.

[flight05]

flight05 on November 12, 2006 at 6:05 am #19129

a lot of athletes like kellyb stuff b/c they dont have to train as much/long…lol

but i agree with mike with the reduced volume because of the high elasticity demands. i noticed when i reduced workload i seemed more explosive and less tired.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on November 12, 2006 at 6:08 am #19130

a lot of athletes like kellyb stuff b/c they dont have to train as much/long…lol

lol, i agree with you 100% about people not wanting to train. for as the reduced volume i think once the workload reduced you should perform better and feel less tired no matter if the event is elasticity or not.
but i agree with mike with the reduced volume because of the high elasticity demands. i noticed when i reduced workload i seemed more explosive and less tired.

[qwertyuiopa]

qwertyuiopa on December 15, 2006 at 12:25 am #19131

Two short questions…

1.What is circuit?

2. In  his tests it says that he did this: st, bf, su, pu, slj, osp
but what is each of it??…

Thank you!=)

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on March 19, 2007 at 12:27 pm #19132

Two short questions…

1.What is circuit?

2. In  his tests it says that he did this: st, bf, su, pu, slj, osp
but what is each of it??…

Thank you!=)

1. Click on the link in this thread to the article by his coach…it gives an example of how he went about his circuits. A circuit is a string of calisthentic-type exercises that you go through for general strength/conditioning/metabolic effects/etc. It can also be used to help in recovery, building work capacity, etc. With circuits, you usually do the exercises with body weight only or light weights. Also the reps tend to be higher, with less recovery between exercises. Often you'll see people do 2-3 sets of the exercises. I looked more closely, and it appears Jonathan went 4 times through with no recovery  :regan: and after endurance bounding at that  :regan: :regan:

2. st=stone (his bodyweight), bf=body fat %, su= sit-ups, pu=press-ups, slj=standing long jump, osp=overhead shot put   

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on March 19, 2007 at 12:56 pm #19133

Ok gentlemen, tomorrow this fool begins living the dream…I'm gonna replicate Edwards' training. Even though I'm 2 months behind, I figure I can still hit it big by the third week of August, the equivalent of a not-too-bad 60'6" effort that came June 25th for Edwards. Remember, this is the result of impulse/instinctual urge, not rationale thinking. I have no choice BUT to do this. Thank you for your votes of confidence…you won't be let down! He he!  :biggrin: 

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2007 at 9:42 am #19134

Ok gentlemen, tomorrow this fool begins living the dream…I'm gonna replicate Edwards' training. Even though I'm 2 months behind, I figure I can still hit it big by the third week of August, the equivalent of a not-too-bad 60'6" effort that came June 25th for Edwards. Remember, this is the result of impulse/instinctual urge, not rationale thinking. I have no choice BUT to do this. Thank you for your votes of confidence…you won't be let down! He he!  :biggrin: 

Make sure you let us know how it goes.

ELITETRACK Founder

[saltojump5]

saltojump5 on April 4, 2007 at 11:22 am #19135

Sounds good. I'm logging it daily in my journal. So far so good…dealing with some broken articular cartilage in the knee (from indoors), but Edwards' training itself feels good and the CNS is sharp. Things get going on 3/19 in this thread:

https://elitetrack.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,94/topic,4304.275