[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 21, 2006 at 11:26 am #11712

Athlete: A female college freshmen.

Scenario: She is a college freshmen who has been recruited as a track athlete at a mid-major D1 school. As a high schooler, she was top 3 in her state in the mile and the triple jump. You are the jumps coach and the head coach is the distance coach. Obviously both of you want to have her in your group. The head coach however sees the possibility of having her score well at the conference meet in multiple events and would like her to continue to train for both events despite what would seem to mean a compromise in her overall development.

Things to consider:
*Would you continue to let her do both events (if it were up to you)?
*Would you focus on one event over the other?
*Considering she will be training for the 2 events how would you propose her training be set up?

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[davan]

davan on March 21, 2006 at 9:46 pm #52548

What does the GIRL want to do?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 21, 2006 at 10:54 pm #52549

She wants to do whatever the coaches ask…

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[pzale8018]

pzale8018 on March 21, 2006 at 11:51 pm #52550

Ok, first, this combination obviously isn't the best situation someone could be in.  Unless she has an amazing amount of natural explosiveness or endurance, I wouldn't keep doing both if it could be helped.  I'd steer her towards whichever event she's more comfortable with and goes better with her natural talents.  Some testing needs to be done.

As far as what to do if she DOES continue with both events, I'm thinking maybe something like this…
If she's got some expolsiveness, she's probably somewhat naturally fast.  This would incline me to train her as more of a 800/mile runner.  This way, I could stay away from the big milage stuff of a true distance runner, and would incorporate some more explosive and speed work.  Early on, you might be able to get away with doing approach work one day, and doing longer track workouts the next, with a recovery/long running day third.  Later on in the season, you might couple a TJ day with a semi-long run, milage day after, then track workout third day.  Do a little more TJ work during pre-meet.

this is a hard one.  at first glance, this seems like it might work, as long as she can handle the training and intensity at the D1 level.  One thing's for sure, she'll realize quick she's not in HS anymore

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on March 22, 2006 at 5:33 am #52551

What are her PR's? Maybe shes from a state like Alaska and it doesnt take much to win certain events?
Maybe her mile time is mucccch better than her triple jump and will do very well in college and her TJ is just medicore. Also what are her sprint times like? All Im saying is there is much more to consider before trying to implement a plan for a miler/jumper which is can be counterproductive.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 22, 2006 at 10:02 am #52552

She's from a competitive state and is very competitive in both events. I actually have an athlete competing in my conference like this. If it were personally up to me I would have her choose an event but given that the head coach wants to have her double up I'd certainly have to think long and hard about how to train her best….

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[davan]

davan on March 22, 2006 at 11:00 pm #52553

How about using her good fitness and explosiveness and simply making her a middle distance runner? 400mh, 800m, 1600m, 4×4, maybe even open 4 would all be competitive events with training (most likely). She could even try the multi-events if she has the technical skills.

[d3doitforfree]

d3doitforfree on March 23, 2006 at 2:42 am #52554

I think you train her mainly for one event, the 1500, from a middle distance training method.  As far as the triple, you work some approach work one day a week along with some light bounding here and there and get what you can at the conference meet. 

This winter at conference, my good girl triple jumper was not able to sprint nor bound for about 1 month leading up the conference meet.  Mainly, we just ran, did some light lifting and some very light bounding.  Even so, she came within 2 inches of her indoor PR and won our conference, regardless of the training.  Therefore, in a situation like this, the girl might not need to much work in an event to be competitive in her conference.  My first impression of this girl is that she tried it for the first time as a senior and wound up being a natural. 

Also, I would talk with her high school to get a background of what kind of training she had been doing.  Therefore, a major shift in training methods would not alter her natural ability to double in these events.

[rice773]

rice773 on March 23, 2006 at 6:28 am #52555

Morning runs, afternoon track workouts (TJ first) with minimal stress on the legs since TJ + long distance pounding sounds like a formula for injuries.  If she has the time i don't see why she couldn't do great at both events.

[track400]

track400 on March 30, 2006 at 9:33 pm #52556

obviously is she is very competitive in both events, do we consider that since she is such a good jumper that she maybe made for the 400, 800.  in which case that overlap wouldnt be so alarming as going from mile to jumps transition.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 7, 2006 at 9:53 am #52557

Good point….perhaps a nice compromise would be 400H. Under the premise of the original topic though here are my thoughts:

*Would you continue to let her do both events (if it were up to you)?
No. I'd probably do a variety of field tests on her. Ask her what she wanted to do and then make a decision based on various points. I'm a big fan of being great at one thing rather than good at many.

*Would you focus on one event over the other?
See above.

*Considering she will be training for the 2 events how would you propose her training be set up?
Day 1-Acc. Dev, OLs, I'd avoid heavy static lifts for fear of adding much body weight
Day 2-Short run jumps, high volume tempo and general strength
Day 3-MaxV / full approach work, OLs for speed
Day 4-Intensive tempo, bodybuilding circuits
Day 5-EZ Continuous tempo run (>6 miles)
Day 6-Short run jumps, high volume tempo and general strength
Day 7-Optional fartlek run (~3 miles)

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[tkelly5]

tkelly5 on April 9, 2006 at 11:03 pm #52558

I'd turn her into a heptathlete

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 13, 2006 at 7:47 am #52559

What makes you think she can throw? (being the devil's advocate)

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[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on April 13, 2006 at 9:59 am #52560

Although I never figured this one out on how I would approach it.  As her jumps coach, she can still produce a decent time in mile, if she keeps her off season volume relatively medium-high and intensity medium.  Because in her SPP I would need her to develop her speed, power, and technique to make her an effective athlete.

As for tkelly's comment and mike's response, I think it would be harder to make her a HJ'er than decent thrower.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 13, 2006 at 10:07 am #52561

As for tkelly's comment and mike's response, I think it would be harder to make her a HJ'er than decent thrower.

Why's that? There have been far more successful TJ / HJ combination athletes than TJ / throws athletes.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on April 13, 2006 at 10:57 am #52562

My thoughts were more along the lines of javelin throwing and not shot/disc/hammer rotational throws.

[tkelly5]

tkelly5 on April 18, 2006 at 1:07 am #52563

I figure she has power and endurance as she can both jump explosively and run a good mile.  Since lower body explosiveness is so important in so many aspects of the hep, I figure that training in throws focusing on technique and form (as well as getting stronger in those things just from the repetitive training motions) would be enough to keep her competitive.  I look at the multis as an event of averages, in that being excellent in one event won't make up for being terrible in the rest.  As such, I'd work for the goal of technical competence in things like javelin and shot, so as to ensure that her jumping and endurance racing capabilities (to say nothing of the endurance it takes to compete in all those events) will be enough edge out the competition.

In other words, play to her strengths, and focus on technical training in her weaknesses.

[citius99]

citius99 on November 30, 2008 at 11:59 am #74664

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I had a couple questions. Mike, you proposed this training schedule for the aforementioned miler-triple jumper;

“Day 1-Acc. Dev, OLs, I’d avoid heavy static lifts for fear of adding much body weight
Day 2-Short run jumps, high volume tempo and general strength
Day 3-MaxV / full approach work, OLs for speed
Day 4-Intensive tempo, bodybuilding circuits
Day 5-EZ Continuous tempo run (>6 miles)
Day 6-Short run jumps, high volume tempo and general strength
Day 7-Optional fartlek run (~3 miles)”

What I’m particularly interested in are the lack of the heavy static lifts. I thought that you would avoid gaining weight if you stuck to 6 reps or less per set. I’m also a middle distance runner, do you think it would be beneficial to drop the heavy static lifts like squats and bench in favor of doing more sets of OL’s?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 8, 2008 at 12:26 pm #75052

I might add some in. If you kept the reps low it could work out ok. You’d just want to keep volumes pretty low. I think I was also thinking that the combined stress of the TJ, OLing, and sprint work might be more than sufficient to enhance strength for a miler. The other thing to consider is that there’s already quite a mixed bag of training stimuli there with a fairly high total volume so adding too much in might not be advisable. Like I said though, it could definitely work out just fine.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on October 27, 2009 at 11:28 pm #90733

She's from a competitive state and is very competitive in both events. I actually have an athlete competing in my conference like this. If it were personally up to me I would have her choose an event but given that the head coach wants to have her double up I'd certainly have to think long and hard about how to train her best….

I have an athlete just like this. She’s a high school junior, and high jumper by trade, but usually runs with the middle distance group for training (she’s a 800m girl). The head coach (which is a distance guy) wants her to do both, but I think her talents may be better served getting more HJ training in. She does distance training 4 days/week, and HJ training once, MAYBE twice/week. She’s a 5’2″ jumper, and only 2:40.xx 800m runner. She runs because that’s what the head coach has told her to do, and she doesn’t necessarily mind it. But she REALLY wants to get better in the jumps. She has good fitness (she’s also a soccer player), and average to marginal explosiveness. Not alot of pure speed though (lack of explosiveness?).

What would you guys do in this scenario?