Perhaps the most amusing aspect of this profession is new problems created by corrective exercise and injury reducing approaches. The new dysfunctional/postural epidemic is caused by the ripple effect of profit and marketing, and it is now hitting us like the current economic crisis of today. False prophets are now backpedaling every time new blood publishes information that proves what they are n
Moblity and Front Squats
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Participant -
Participant
so what emphasis do you place on front squats? i like to do front squats more for a variety of reasons (though none of them involve taking strain off my back), and ive read that the bulgarians dont even do back squats, just fronts.
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Participant
Normally I don’t see eye to eye with Carl, but this is spot on. There is a role for front squats, but not as a corrective measure. Corrective measures must be balanced to work and also focus on lifestyle issues as well. Gait and Posture are directly effected by the forces they are stress by 24 hours a day, 7 days, 365 days a year throughout one’s life. You cannot alter how a body matured and developed previous to any intervention.
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KeymasterPersonally I really only use front squats on a regular basis with Olympic weightlifters and push athletes (bobsled & skeleton). On the rare occasion that I do use it with track athletes I always feel the need to do extra (more than usual) posterior chain work and an overhead upperbody pull.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
That is interesting that people use front squats to correct mobility problems. I assume because it is easier to get deeper in a front squat than back squat.
I thought the only people who did lots of front squats were Pro Olympic Weightlifters. In their case you will never see any Pro Oly Lifter with upper cross syndrome. They do plenty of pulling exercises from the floor to offset that. Even the ones who do more front squat than back squat or at least the same amount of front to back squat (Bulgarians, Greeks, and Turks) show nothing close to resembling upper cross syndrome. Perhaps if the athletes kept the preferred upright as possible torso they would not experience any of these problems.
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Participant
That is interesting that people use front squats to correct mobility problems. I assume because it is easier to get deeper in a front squat than back squat.
I thought the only people who did lots of front squats were Pro Olympic Weightlifters. In their case you will never see any Pro Oly Lifter with upper cross syndrome. They do plenty of pulling exercises from the floor to offset that. Even the ones who do more front squat than back squat or at least the same amount of front to back squat (Bulgarians, Greeks, and Turks) show nothing close to resembling upper cross syndrome. Perhaps if the athletes kept the preferred upright as possible torso they would not experience any of these problems.
I think Carl is trying to say front squats cause a mobility problem at the spine. I could be wrong but this my take. The net effect is the front squats correct maybe one deficiency but produce others as the line of force on a front squat passes through the a point in front of the center of mass and at an extended moment arm that it can cause a host of lower and mid back problems resulting in a straightening of the spinal column (reducing the thoracic curve) or possibly slipping a disc.
If I am wrong on this correct me.
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Participant
That is interesting that people use front squats to correct mobility problems. I assume because it is easier to get deeper in a front squat than back squat.
I thought the only people who did lots of front squats were Pro Olympic Weightlifters. In their case you will never see any Pro Oly Lifter with upper cross syndrome. They do plenty of pulling exercises from the floor to offset that. Even the ones who do more front squat than back squat or at least the same amount of front to back squat (Bulgarians, Greeks, and Turks) show nothing close to resembling upper cross syndrome. Perhaps if the athletes kept the preferred upright as possible torso they would not experience any of these problems.
Pro Olympic Weightlifters?
Great points but who is doing 2-3 x bodyweight cleans in the HS and College realm? Are your girls cleaning 300lbs? Those that are afraid to do back squats are likely not to want to induce lumbar strain by pulling off the floor and going very heavy. I agree with your points but again we are talking about those that are not advocating Bulgarian approaches.
Those that are doing exercises to reduce risk also create changes in the program that must be as you said offset. Usually the offset protocol is a corrective exercise of low force that can’t nearly fight off the work being done in the other direction. Example activation exercises.
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Keymaster
That is interesting that people use front squats to correct mobility problems. I assume because it is easier to get deeper in a front squat than back squat.
I’ve heard this logic as well. The problem is, it’s comparing apples to oranges. There’s a reason you can’t get as deep on back squats and the limiting factors in one exercise remain the limiting factors in the other exercise. That is, the very fact that you can get deeper in front squats at least partially indicates that you won’t be addressing the mobility issues that may be limiting back squat depth.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Most exercises, in and of themselves, are harmless. Unfortunately, people do dumb things which makes an exercise potentially harmful.
I think trainers make way too big a deal about any one particular exercise.
If you place a back squat in a program that worked the posterior chain practically every day and couple this with doing zero pulling work from the ground, you’re asking for trouble.
What’s the solution? Adding some trap bar deadlifts and being more respectful of CNS Intensive work. What some choose to call revolutionary, I call Sprint Training 101. But what do track coaches know.
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Participant
[quote author="LR1400" date="1222507346"]That is interesting that people use front squats to correct mobility problems. I assume because it is easier to get deeper in a front squat than back squat.
I thought the only people who did lots of front squats were Pro Olympic Weightlifters. In their case you will never see any Pro Oly Lifter with upper cross syndrome. They do plenty of pulling exercises from the floor to offset that. Even the ones who do more front squat than back squat or at least the same amount of front to back squat (Bulgarians, Greeks, and Turks) show nothing close to resembling upper cross syndrome. Perhaps if the athletes kept the preferred upright as possible torso they would not experience any of these problems.
Pro Olympic Weightlifters?
Great points but who is doing 2-3 x bodyweight cleans in the HS and College realm? Are your girls cleaning 300lbs? Those that are afraid to do back squats are likely not to want to induce lumbar strain by pulling off the floor and going very heavy. I agree with your points but again we are talking about those that are not advocating Bulgarian approaches.
Those that are doing exercises to reduce risk also create changes in the program that must be as you said offset. Usually the offset protocol is a corrective exercise of low force that can’t nearly fight off the work being done in the other direction. Example activation exercises.[/quote]
Girls cleaning 300lbs……. only in China.
I have no experience compared to 99% of you guys. Just an avid observer. If folks are scared of lumbar stress by pulling from the floor and from back squats I am at a loss for words in explaining their love of front squats. I see your point. A bench happy crew who does front squats as primary lower body exercise and who may do leg curls for 3×10 = common sense would say, bad idea. Curiously…….can you point to someone/somegroup that takes this approach? If you don’t feel comfortable I understand.
I like doing doing front and back squat. Just a means to an end.
By the way FANTASTIC choice of photo. Dimas was amazing.
That photo illustrates exactly what we were discussing regarding the Bulgarian, Greek, etc. approach or in other words a well rounded program/one that obviously does not neglect one portion of the body or one movement to the detriment of the other. Just look at Dimas’ quads and hamstrings….equally developed.
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Keymaster
Girls cleaning 300lbs……. only in China.
Hey now…don’t let Cheryl Haworth hear you say that. She might run you down with her 5.0 40 yard speed and crush you.
By the way FANTASTIC choice of photo. Dimas was amazing.
That photo illustrates exactly what we were discussing regarding the Bulgarian, Greek, etc. approach or in other words a well rounded program/one that obviously does not neglect one portion of the body or one movement to the detriment of the other. Just look at Dimas’ quads and hamstrings….equally developed.
No doubt. If you’re doing lots of heavy OLs from the floor you could certainly get away with using front squats as a big exercise in your program.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
Most exercises, in and of themselves, are harmless. Unfortunately, people do dumb things which makes an exercise potentially harmful.
Interesting you say this because I was thinking something similar when someone wrote a comment on a half squat video on my youtube channel. This exercise more than any other seems to make people take sides and most of the time people equate inclusion of half squats in a program with exclusion of full squats in a program. I don’t get it.
ELITETRACK Founder
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