Moving up to the 800m

    Posted In: Training Journals

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 17, 2010 at 6:51 am #16910

          I have a girl that wants to move up to the 800m. Although XC is where she should get her base from, she’s made it clear she doesn’t want to run XC until she gets to college, so she’s asked me to train her during the fall. I will chronicle her training here.

          I’ve done ALOT of studying of 800m training over the years, but have never actually trained one. So this will be an experiment for me. I’ll need all the help I can get from as many places as I can get it.

          So elitetrackers, as I go, if there is anything you question, or just have comments on, PLEASE let me know. It’s all welcome…

          Meso 1, Micro 1 (sessions will ALWAYS begin with 800m warmup jog, and end with 800m warmdown)

          Monday
          800m warmup jog (along with various other exercises/stretches afterwards)
          hurdle mobility
          20 minute general endurance circuit
          general strength circuit
          weight circuit (6 lifts, 2 x 30 sec.)
          PNF stretches

          Tuesday
          5 mile run at 8:30 mile pace

          Wednesday
          Hills: 12 x 20m w/90 sec. rest
          (WEIGHTS: clean pulls 7 x 3; bench press 5 x 6; squats 7 x 6; single arm RDLs 2 x 8)
          low intensity multi throws (three different throws, 3x each)

          Thursday
          2.5 miles (easy pace)

          Friday
          hurdle mobility
          2 separate general strength circuits
          weight circuit (6 lifts, 2 x 30 sec.)
          PNF stretches

        • Participant
          morgan93 on July 24, 2010 at 9:53 pm #100410

          Keep to the 10% rule with mileage, because stress fractures, shin slints etc can creep up on an athlete. I’d ditch the 20m hills sprints, any advanatage that they will get speed wise will be null and void at the back end of an 800m race.

          I would start every session off with at least a one mile jog. And the 12x20m hills could be replaced by something like 10x500m hill w/jog back rec. Honestly the 20m hills will be useless at the back end of a race without adequate endurance.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 25, 2010 at 5:17 am #100414

          Keep to the 10% rule with mileage, because stress fractures, shin slints etc can creep up on an athlete. I’d ditch the 20m hills sprints, any advanatage that they will get speed wise will be null and void at the back end of an 800m race.

          I would start every session off with at least a one mile jog. And the 12x20m hills could be replaced by something like 10x500m hill w/jog back rec. Honestly the 20m hills will be useless at the back end of a race without adequate endurance.

          A couple things…

          1. What is the 10% rule? Please explain.

          2. I see what you’re trying to say about the back end of the race. Can I do these hill workouts every week? Should I increase total volume? Rep volume? Number of reps? In other words, how should I progress from this workout?

          3. And lastly, I’ve read in quite a few places where it is questioned whether running anything over 800m is even useful for a warmup. Thoughts?

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on July 25, 2010 at 5:39 am #100417

          12 * 20m will improve running economi.
          10 * 500m is a totaly different workout, introducing something totally different in the weekly program.
          As far as i can see the program looks like its focusing on mileage and strength/power/acceleation work, moving to longer runners, interval, less strenght work, more specifik speed work.

          with all the posts from Vern about being more intelligent with the cirquit workouts i will love to see the actuall workouts. Maybe something to improve, discuss and learn.

          i would think introducing more all around work, with low volumes, would be a good ideer instead of the program going for weeks with out any fast and longer runs. Also top speed work.

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on July 25, 2010 at 5:46 am #100418

          [quote author="morgan93" date="1279988655"]Keep to the 10% rule with mileage, because stress fractures, shin slints etc can creep up on an athlete. I’d ditch the 20m hills sprints, any advanatage that they will get speed wise will be null and void at the back end of an 800m race.

          I would start every session off with at least a one mile jog. And the 12x20m hills could be replaced by something like 10x500m hill w/jog back rec. Honestly the 20m hills will be useless at the back end of a race without adequate endurance.

          A couple things…

          1. What is the 10% rule? Please explain. A mileage rule. dont increase mileage by more than 10 % per week.

          2. I see what you’re trying to say about the back end of the race. Can I do these hill workouts every week? Should I increase total volume? Rep volume? Number of reps? In other words, how should I progress from this workout?
          Power and top speed improve running economi and not only back end of the race.

          3. And lastly, I’ve read in quite a few places where it is questioned whether running anything over 800m is even useful for a warmup. Thoughts?[/quote]

          plz post a studie. Sound weird

        • Participant
          morgan93 on July 25, 2010 at 11:10 am #100423

          The 10% rule in regards to mileage means that each week the total amount of milage you increase by should be no more than 10% of the total volume. I.e: If you have an athlete run 30miles p/w when increasing their mileage you should only increase it to around 33miles the next week. It can be a slow process but over the course of around 6 months its a much safer way to move an athlete into the higher mileage.

          What Rune has stated in terms of low volume puts the emphasis on supplementary training before the core workouts have even been ticked. You need to adress the basic aerobic components of the 800m before you can even think of sessions such as 12x20m because the speed gained wont even be useful during a race.

          My 2c of a weekly program (based on your general outline):

          Mon: 10min w/u Jog, Drills, 22min tempo run i.e 5km pace, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Tue: Easy 5 mile Run
          Wed: 10min Jog W/u, Hills I.e: 10x500m w/jog rec, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Thur: Easy 5mile Run
          Fri: 10min W/u Jog, 3x2km w/ 200m Jog Rec, 10min W/d Jog

          Any extra sessions I.e Hurdle Mobility, Plyo, Short Hills can be piece in on a Sat or Sun.

          There is a session which i did once a week as an 800m runner an now as a 400m runner. The general term my coaches give to it is a technical session.
          It will generally last around 2 hours and for me personally includes Hurdle mobility, Hurdle strength work, Med Ball work, and afew faster paced strides + Core Strength.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 25, 2010 at 4:44 pm #100429

          [quote author="Jay Turner" date="1280015265"][quote author="morgan93" date="1279988655"]Keep to the 10% rule with mileage, because stress fractures, shin slints etc can creep up on an athlete. I’d ditch the 20m hills sprints, any advanatage that they will get speed wise will be null and void at the back end of an 800m race.

          I would start every session off with at least a one mile jog. And the 12x20m hills could be replaced by something like 10x500m hill w/jog back rec. Honestly the 20m hills will be useless at the back end of a race without adequate endurance.

          A couple things…

          1. What is the 10% rule? Please explain. A mileage rule. dont increase mileage by more than 10 % per week.

          2. I see what you’re trying to say about the back end of the race. Can I do these hill workouts every week? Should I increase total volume? Rep volume? Number of reps? In other words, how should I progress from this workout?
          Power and top speed improve running economi and not only back end of the race.

          3. And lastly, I’ve read in quite a few places where it is questioned whether running anything over 800m is even useful for a warmup. Thoughts?[/quote]

          plz post a studie. Sound weird[/quote]I’ll have to find it. It’s among my many distance articles I’ve read. I’ll get back to you on this one.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 25, 2010 at 4:58 pm #100430

          The 10% rule in regards to mileage means that each week the total amount of milage you increase by should be no more than 10% of the total volume. I.e: If you have an athlete run 30miles p/w when increasing their mileage you should only increase it to around 33miles the next week. It can be a slow process but over the course of around 6 months its a much safer way to move an athlete into the higher mileage.

          Because this girl is moving up to 800 from 400, I’m bringing her along slowly. I’ve pretty much made out her yearly plan. Here is the skeleton.

          Week 1-3 (18-20 miles/week)
          Week 4-7 (20-21)
          Week 8-11 (25-27)
          Week 12-16 (25-27)
          Week 17-20 (24-25)

          The above takes her into roughly January, when she’ll begin some specific prep work, and her mileage will be lowered.

          Week 21-24 (16-17 miles/week)
          Week 25-28 (13-15)
          Week 29-32 (12-13)

          The above takes her into the start of the outdoor season. From this point on, mileage will be kept very low, and competition will be increased. Thoughts?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 25, 2010 at 5:01 pm #100431

          As far as i can see the program looks like its focusing on mileage and strength/power/acceleation work, moving to longer runners, interval, less strenght work, more specifik speed work.

          This is pretty much exactly what I am doing. And although it doesn’t appear that way by looking at week 1, speed work (accels, top speed, etc.) will be included all year.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 25, 2010 at 5:08 pm #100432

          The 10% rule in regards to mileage means that each week the total amount of milage you increase by should be no more than 10% of the total volume. I.e: If you have an athlete run 30miles p/w when increasing their mileage you should only increase it to around 33miles the next week. It can be a slow process but over the course of around 6 months its a much safer way to move an athlete into the higher mileage.

          What Rune has stated in terms of low volume puts the emphasis on supplementary training before the core workouts have even been ticked. You need to adress the basic aerobic components of the 800m before you can even think of sessions such as 12x20m because the speed gained wont even be useful during a race.

          My 2c of a weekly program (based on your general outline):

          Mon: 10min w/u Jog, Drills, 22min tempo run i.e 5km pace, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Tue: Easy 5 mile Run
          Wed: 10min Jog W/u, Hills I.e: 10x500m w/jog rec, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Thur: Easy 5mile Run
          Fri: 10min W/u Jog, 3x2km w/ 200m Jog Rec, 10min W/d Jog

          I think you may have misinterpreted the original post. That was not a sample training week. That was week 1 of an 11 month macro. Everything you put in your example will be introduced in phases, not all at once. The long intervals (2k repeats), tempo runs (fartleks, etc.), easy runs.

          I do have one question regarding your sample week. Would it be safe to have a newcomer to distance training do the 5 mile runs on Tuesday and Thursday? Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to have them to one of them on Tuesday, then another on Saturday, to spread the long runs out? Then let Thursday’s run be shorter, and PERHAPS even at a faster pace?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 26, 2010 at 3:33 am #100447

          What type of 400m runner would you classify her as? I ask because you may want to do something different for someone who is more of a speed power runner. You can get decent at the high school 800 m without doing a lot of mileage. One of my girls I was training for 800 from 400 ended up running a 600m in 1:40 like it was nothing. She didn’t really want to do the 800 so it never panned out but I think that she could have gone 2:15 or better in 2 or three races of practicing it.this was off of hardly any mileage training.

          The girl in question last year ran 2:29.47 in only her second time ever running the event. This is from doing 400m training and zero mileage.

          Here are her PB’s in each event, all set this past season training for 400m.

          100m – 13.55
          200m – 27.54
          400m – 1:02.31
          800m – 2:29.47 (has run the event only three times in her life)

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 28, 2010 at 1:16 pm #100519

          Today she was supposed to run 5 miles at 8:30 mile pace. When she got back from her run, she told me she ended up going at around 7:30 pace. I asked her how she felt afterwards and she said “it wasn’t too bad”. She asked me did she have to stick to the original pace prescribed (8:30). She feels like this is way too slow for her, even for 5 miles.

          So my question is this…

          Although she is new to distance training, having never run any mileage, should I have her stay at or around the 7:30 pace she ran today, or should I keep the training wheels on for now and stay at 8:30 mile pace?

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on July 29, 2010 at 9:03 am #100544

          Well higher tempo is increasede intensity, but sometimes det mechanics become better.

          Higher tempo usually decrease overpronation, internal rotation and adduction of the femur, which is strongly relatede to runners knee in weman.

          The question you need to answers is

          – how does it effect her mechanics?

          – how does it effect the overall program?

          It very commen to relate Easy pace running speed to vdot (Jack Daniels) or HR rate. This is generelia a good ideer to get the deciderede intensitet and derfor effect from trainig. I critique of this is that her work capacity (program and injurie) migt not be sufficient.

          I would, figure out her vdot and increase the tempo till it fits over 2 weeks time. If you figure it out from her 800m time, maybe a little slower than normal because of her 400m time.

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on July 29, 2010 at 9:13 am #100545

          The 10% rule in regards to mileage means that each week the total amount of milage you increase by should be no more than 10% of the total volume. I.e: If you have an athlete run 30miles p/w when increasing their mileage you should only increase it to around 33miles the next week. It can be a slow process but over the course of around 6 months its a much safer way to move an athlete into the higher mileage.

          What Rune has stated in terms of low volume puts the emphasis on supplementary training before the core workouts have even been ticked. You need to adress the basic aerobic components of the 800m before you can even think of sessions such as 12x20m because the speed gained wont even be useful during a race.

          My 2c of a weekly program (based on your general outline):

          Mon: 10min w/u Jog, Drills, 22min tempo run i.e 5km pace, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Tue: Easy 5 mile Run
          Wed: 10min Jog W/u, Hills I.e: 10x500m w/jog rec, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Thur: Easy 5mile Run
          Fri: 10min W/u Jog, 3x2km w/ 200m Jog Rec, 10min W/d Jog

          Any extra sessions I.e Hurdle Mobility, Plyo, Short Hills can be piece in on a Sat or Sun.

          There is a session which i did once a week as an 800m runner an now as a 400m runner. The general term my coaches give to it is a technical session.
          It will generally last around 2 hours and for me personally includes Hurdle mobility, Hurdle strength work, Med Ball work, and afew faster paced strides + Core Strength.

          First of all, i need to repeat, that the purpose of 20m runs dont have to be to increase speed. They also increase running economi. This is well documentet.

          22 min 5km pace doesnt make sense…running longer than a 5 km in 5 km tempo???

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 29, 2010 at 12:06 pm #100553

          Well higher tempo is increasede intensity, but sometimes det mechanics become better.

          Higher tempo usually decrease overpronation, internal rotation and adduction of the femur, which is strongly relatede to runners knee in weman.

          The question you need to answers is

          – how does it effect her mechanics?

          – how does it effect the overall program?

          It very commen to relate Easy pace running speed to vdot (Jack Daniels) or HR rate. This is generelia a good ideer to get the deciderede intensitet and derfor effect from trainig. I critique of this is that her work capacity (program and injurie) migt not be sufficient.

          I would, figure out her vdot and increase the tempo till it fits over 2 weeks time. If you figure it out from her 800m time, maybe a little slower than normal because of her 400m time.

          So let me see if I am understanding you correctly…

          You’re saying it may be a good idea to keep her at a fairly faster pace, to decrease the chances of injury and overpronation?

          Can you explain in detail what you mean when you say I need to ask how does it affect the overall program?

          What is vdot? I don’t think I am familiar with that term. Do you mean V02 max?

          What do you mean when you say it may be a little slower because of her 400m time? Is her 400m time faster than normal or slower than normal based off of her 800m time?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 29, 2010 at 12:14 pm #100555

          [quote author="morgan93" date="1280036444"]The 10% rule in regards to mileage means that each week the total amount of milage you increase by should be no more than 10% of the total volume. I.e: If you have an athlete run 30miles p/w when increasing their mileage you should only increase it to around 33miles the next week. It can be a slow process but over the course of around 6 months its a much safer way to move an athlete into the higher mileage.

          What Rune has stated in terms of low volume puts the emphasis on supplementary training before the core workouts have even been ticked. You need to adress the basic aerobic components of the 800m before you can even think of sessions such as 12x20m because the speed gained wont even be useful during a race.

          My 2c of a weekly program (based on your general outline):

          Mon: 10min w/u Jog, Drills, 22min tempo run i.e 5km pace, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Tue: Easy 5 mile Run
          Wed: 10min Jog W/u, Hills I.e: 10x500m w/jog rec, 10min w/d Jog + Weights
          Thur: Easy 5mile Run
          Fri: 10min W/u Jog, 3x2km w/ 200m Jog Rec, 10min W/d Jog

          Any extra sessions I.e Hurdle Mobility, Plyo, Short Hills can be piece in on a Sat or Sun.

          There is a session which i did once a week as an 800m runner an now as a 400m runner. The general term my coaches give to it is a technical session.
          It will generally last around 2 hours and for me personally includes Hurdle mobility, Hurdle strength work, Med Ball work, and afew faster paced strides + Core Strength.

          First of all, i need to repeat, that the purpose of 20m runs dont have to be to increase speed. They also increase running economi. This is well documentet.

          22 min 5km pace doesnt make sense…running longer than a 5 km in 5 km tempo???[/quote]Why doesn’t it make sense? Are you saying this is not possible?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 29, 2010 at 3:01 pm #100559

          I would keep her at the slower pace, just my opinion. I don’t see any need to up the speed right now. If it is easy for her, then let it stay easy for a while. I am not certain you will notice any benefit from increasing the pace if these types of runs aren’t the focus of your program. If you wanted them to be easy, keep them easy.

          I’m asking because I do not know…

          Wouldn’t being able to run increased distance at faster paces always be the focus/goal of a distance program?

          Also, she said the 7:20 pace wasn’t that bad. She said she was tired (due to not being used to running 5 miles or greater at a given time), but it wasn’t anything serious. Thoughts?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 29, 2010 at 3:34 pm #100560

          Can someone explain what running economy is?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 30, 2010 at 4:01 am #100573

          I’m not convinced that high school 800m training needs to be a “distance” program. I think it depends on the background of the runner. If you want to do a distance based 800m program, then I would agree that making longer distances, that are ran at a faster pace, easier might be of some benefit. My opinion was just based on what I did when I took a short sprinter from 400m to 800m on a sprint based program. We only ran 10 minute mile pace up to 25 minutes 2 times a week. But, you see, she didn’t really want to do the longer distance training so this is what I had to do to get her some endurance base. It worked quite well when mixed with 400m type training.

          Edit: One more clarifying thought to tie it all in is that you mention that:
          [quote]Wouldn’t being able to run increased distance at faster paces always be the focus/goal of a distance program?

          I came at it from the opposite end of the spectrum. I made the shorter distances (200m, 400m) faster to make her 800m time better rather than making longer distances than 800m easier for her.[/quote]2011 will mark the third season she has run for me. She started in her sophomore year. Starting at the opposite end of the spectrum is what I did as well. In fact, I believe this to be a great idea for all high school 800m runners. THE reason she ran 2:29 this past season is because of what you’re saying. She was faster at 200m and 400m, which made her 800m better. However, she’s at the point where the only way her 800m times will drastically improve is by increased mileage.

          Also, she has no problem whatsoever running mileage. She’s one of the many girls I have on my team that will run into a burning building if it culminated with them getting better.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on July 30, 2010 at 8:43 am #100581

          She sounds just like the girl I trained except she is more willing to do mileage. The girl I had, though, was able to easily run 2:25.5 sloppily with no 800m training. Her senior year, I added in 25 minute runs at 10 minute mile pace (slow) twice a week and upped the volume of more specific 400m work. While she never did manage to run an 800m in a meet last year, I did test her in practice on a 600m and she came through at 1:40 and didn’t even look tired (for reference, a 600m her Junior year was at 1:47 and she struggled). I believe she could have easily ran the last 200m of that particular test in 35 seconds for a 2:15 800m time in practice and with a couple more tests and race models, I believe she could have been amazing at the 800m. However, circumstances prevented us from trying it (and she wasn’t really into the 800m anyway). It really depends on how you want to train your girl. My experience tells me that more distance faster isn’t necessary for sprinter-types, but it will probably work just as well if they are willing. It was just too much running for my girl to introduce all at once so I kept it slow and easy for her and it worked just fine. You can read my training journal for her on this site if you are interested.

          Well, I wouldn’t call her a sprinter type anymore. Her and I have sat doan and had long conversations about her running future, and we both agree that it is mid-distance. So this is not a one year thing, she’s officially an 800m runner. So this training is basically the start of a career as a half-miler.

          So my question is, would more distance faster be necessary for her as strictly a half-miler?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 1, 2010 at 2:24 am #100614

          Micro 1 went well. She had no issues.

          Meso 1, Micro 2

          Monday
          (WORKOUT: 12 x 15m w/90s rest)
          (WEIGHTS: tempo cleans: 27 x 1 w/35 seconds rest @ 70%, DB incline press: 5 x 6; lunges: 5 x 6; T-RDLs: 2 x 8

          Tuesday
          5 mile run at 8:30 mile pace

          Wednesday
          hurdle mobility
          22 minute fartlek (easy jog —-> hard up a 50m hill) at varying intervals
          general strength circuit
          weight circuit (6 lifts, 2 x 30 sec.)
          PNF stretches

          Thursday
          5 mile run at 8:30 mile pace

          Friday
          hurdle mobility
          4 x 1000m @ 3:30 800m pace (4:20 total) w/3:00 rest
          weight circuit (6 lifts, 2 x 30 sec.)

          Saturday
          2.5 miles (easy pace)

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 4, 2010 at 10:39 am #100718

          Today the athlete ran 5 miles with an 8:30 mile pace for her goal. For the past 2-3 weeks she has done this, but she keeps complaining that this is WAYYYYY TOO easy for her. She understands that it’s not supposed to be grueling, but she tells me that even when she makes a conscious effort to run at that pace, she still ends up in the 7:30-7:45 range.

          As everyone who is reading this knows, she is new to mid-distance training, so I’m certainly going to take it slow with her. Having said that, I don’t want to keep the training wheels on at the expense of perhaps stunting her growth. If she actually has to TRY to go slower, just to hit a goal time that seems to be hard for her to slow down to, should I “get out of my own way” by allowing her to run at the 7:30-7:45 pace she seems comfortable at? Or should I keep trying to force her to slow down to 8:30 pace?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 6, 2010 at 1:56 am #100789

          Today we did a 22 minute fartlek. Low intensity, just something to introduce her to it. She’s never did a fartlek session before.

          She was supposed to go easy, then when she gets to this 100m hill in the back of campus, she is to sprint up the hill, jog around the perimeter of the school at conversational pace, then sprint up again. Total distance only ended up being 2.5 miles.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 9, 2010 at 2:53 am #100895

          Here is this coming week’s training…

          Meso 1, Micro 3

          Monday
          hurdle mobility
          (WORKOUT: 4 x 1000m @ 3:30 800m pace (4:20 total) w/3:00 rest
          weight circuit (6 lifts, 2 x 30 sec.)

          Tuesday
          5 mile run at 8:30 mile pace

          Wednesday
          (WORKOUT: 10 x 20m w/2:00 rest)
          (WEIGHTS: tempo cleans: 24 x 1 w/40 seconds rest @ 75%, DB incline press: 5 x 6; lunges: 5 x 6; T-RDLs: 2 x 8)

          Thursday
          5 mile run at 8:30 mile pace

          Friday
          hurdle mobility
          24 minute fartlek (easy jog–> hard up a 50m hill) at varying intervals
          general strength circuit
          weight circuit (6 lifts, 2 x 30 sec.)
          PNF stretches

          Saturday
          2.5 miles (easy pace)

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 10, 2010 at 1:27 pm #100937

          Today my athlete did 4 x 1000m and the goal was 3:30 800m pace w/ 3:00 rest. I wanted the total 1000m time to be around 4:20. As with most of her workouts thus far, the thinking was to take it easy at this point in the season because she is new to mid-distance training. Here are the results…

          4:06.39 (3:15 @ 800m)
          4:08.13 (3:17 @ 800m)
          4:05.42 (3:14 @ 800m)
          4:05.10 (3:15 @ 800m)

          As it’s been with pretty much every workout she’s ever done, whether it was when she was training like a 100m/200m runner 2 seasons ago, like a 400m runner last year, or now, she handles the training better than I thought she would.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 12, 2010 at 1:23 pm #100979

          I had the athlete run a 5k race today to test her early progress. This was first ever 5k race, or any race over 800m. I didn’t give her any strategy, I just wanted to see what she would do off of natural instinct. She ran 22:18. I thought that was awesome for a first timer.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 16, 2010 at 10:07 am #101073

          Here is this coming week’s training…

          Meso 2, Micro 1

          Monday
          (WORKOUT: 4 x 1200m @ 3:30 800m pace (5:10 total) w/3:00 rest
          2 core/ab circuits

          Tuesday
          6 mile run at 8:20 mile pace

          Wednesday
          hurdle mobility
          2 core/ab circuits
          weight circuit (24 lifts, 10x ea.)

          Thursday
          6 mile run at 8:20 mile pace

          Friday
          5 x 60m SFS: 25/25/10 w/6:00 rest
          (WEIGHTS: tempo cleans: 20 x 1 w/45 seconds rest @ 75%; split squats: 6 x 5; superset [DB bench press/chinups]: 4 x 6; RDLs: 2 x 8)

          Saturday
          3 miles (easy pace)

          I have a question…

          For Monday’s session, since I’ve added 200m per rep, should I increase recovery time, or is it OK to keep it at 3:00 as I have been when she was doing 1000s?

        • Participant
          Matt Norquist on August 16, 2010 at 12:42 pm #101079

          H
          I have a question…

          For Monday’s session, since I’ve added 200m per rep, should I increase recovery time, or is it OK to keep it at 3:00 as I have been when she was doing 1000s?

          I think that’s fine, but would maybe consider adding distance a little more slowly – Ie 1100 first.

          What is your strategy for progressing speed work, or are you simply trying to get her ready for her time trial in the fall?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 17, 2010 at 5:07 am #101091

          [quote author="Jay Turner" date="1281933498"]H
          I have a question…

          For Monday’s session, since I’ve added 200m per rep, should I increase recovery time, or is it OK to keep it at 3:00 as I have been when she was doing 1000s?

          I think that’s fine, but would maybe consider adding distance a little more slowly – Ie 1100 first.

          What is your strategy for progressing speed work, or are you simply trying to get her ready for her time trial in the fall?[/quote]I plan on progressing her speed as if she were a 400m runner.

          1. increase in acc. dev. (all the way up to 80-90m) for the rest of GPP
          2. blend in SFS maybe once per 4-6 week cycle for the rest of GPP
          3. start to work in IT in about 4-5 weeks
          4. at the end of GPP/beginning of SPP start to work in SE1
          5. continue working on SE1 through Pre Comp.
          6. work on SE2 during Comp. Phase

          Also, why should I consider going to 1100m vs. 1200m?

          Thoughts?

        • Participant
          Matt Norquist on August 17, 2010 at 5:16 am #101093

          [quote author="Matt Norquist (WashedupDec)" date="1281942759"][quote author="Jay Turner" date="1281933498"]H
          I have a question…

          For Monday’s session, since I’ve added 200m per rep, should I increase recovery time, or is it OK to keep it at 3:00 as I have been when she was doing 1000s?

          I think that’s fine, but would maybe consider adding distance a little more slowly – Ie 1100 first.

          What is your strategy for progressing speed work, or are you simply trying to get her ready for her time trial in the fall?[/quote]I plan on progressing her speed as if she were a 400m runner.

          1. increase in acc. dev. (all the way up to 80-90m) for the rest of GPP
          2. blend in SFS maybe once per 4-6 week cycle for the rest of GPP
          3. start to work in IT in about 4-5 weeks
          4. at the end of GPP/beginning of SPP start to work in SE1
          5. continue working on SE1 through Pre Comp.
          6. work on SE2 during Comp. Phase

          Also, why should I consider going to 1100m vs. 1200m?

          Thoughts?[/quote]

          I like stretching out the distances slowly because it allows you to progress more times (stretching out a cycle over longer time period). Also psychologically better to feel like you could have done more/longer reps at a pace than to fail on a pace early in the year.

          RE: Speed – looks like a well thought out plan.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm #101104

          I think that’s fine, but would maybe consider adding distance a little more slowly – Ie 1100 first.

          Good call on this…

          I decided to go with 1100s instead of 1200s. She hit all her goal times (as always, she was well ahead of her goal times), but there was a bit of a struggle this time. She didn’t preform this workout with the ease of the 1000s. You can’t tell by her times though…

          4:29.68 (3:10.01 @ 800m)
          4:28.26 (3:12.86 @ 800m)
          4:28.70 (3:17.39 @ 800m)
          4:18.07 (3:07.06 @ 800m)

          Also, starting tomorrow, she will increase her mileage on Tuesday’s and Thursday’s to 6 miles per run. I have decided to keep her at 8:20 pace though.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 22, 2010 at 4:01 am #101247

          Question…

          Is it better to do hill workouts during GPP, or SPP?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 23, 2010 at 9:59 am #101272

          Here is this coming week’s training…

          Meso 2, Micro 2

          Monday
          (WORKOUT: 15 x 100m hills @ challenging pace w/walk back recovery)
          core/ab circuits
          weight circuit (24 lifts, 10x ea.)

          Tuesday
          6 mile run at 8:20 mile pace

          Wednesday
          (WORKOUT: 10 x 25m weight (25 lbs.) pulls w/2:30 rest)
          (WEIGHTS: power cleans: 6 x 2; incline DB press: 6 x 5; squats: 3 x 2 progressively heavier, 5 x 3 @ 75% + 10 lbs. as fast as possible, 1 x failure @ 75%; single leg good mornings: 2 x 5; multi throws: four separate throws, 3x ea.

          Thursday
          4 x 1100m @ 3:30 800m pace (4:20 total) w/3:00 rest

          Friday
          hurdle mobility
          10 x 300m w/ 60s rest
          general strength circuit
          weight circuit (24 lifts, 10x ea.)

          Saturday
          6 mile run at 8:20 mile pace

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 24, 2010 at 1:56 pm #101316

          Today’s workout (15 x 100m hills w/ walk back recovery) went well. The athlete handled it quite well for her first time ever doing a hill workout.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 26, 2010 at 2:01 pm #101415

          Coaches,

          I am looking over my athletes’ training plan for this fall, and I feel like I may be giving her too much. To be honest I’m not sure if I am or not, but since this is experimental, and I have never trained an 800m runner (at least one with a focus on 800m running) before, I guess I’m just second guessing myself.

          Here is a general description of how I structure her training…

          long tempo runs (currently at 6 miles per run at 8:20 pace) twice/week
          long intervals (for the next few weeks this will be 4 x 1100m at 3:15 800m pace w/3:00 recovery) once/week
          hill workouts (this week she did 15 x 100m w/walk back recovery)
          speed work (friday she is doing 11 x 300m (in 1:07) w/60s recovery

          Is this too much for her? Are the sessions set up on the wrong days? Or am I worrying too much and everything is fine?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 28, 2010 at 3:30 am #101475

          Anyone?

        • Participant
          ct on August 28, 2010 at 10:17 am #101493

          Ok since no one else answereed I’ll give you my opinion. I’m far from being a coach but I’ll give my opinion on this. 11x300m for speed work at 1:07??? That’s a 3 min 800 pace which is slower than the actual 800 I assume??? All I can say for doing 11 300s with 1 minute rest is get ready to say Hail Marys and Our Fathers.

          6 miles a run seems like a lot too even for 800. I dont know what a hill workout is seems like a lot tho 15 100s unless there slow. Overall I think its a LOT of running even the 4x1100m but I wouldnt trust myself cuz I hated running long distance in high school.

          But if you were to do something like this cut all the volume by at least in half so instead of 6 miles do 3. instead of 4×1100 do 2 and so forth.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on August 30, 2010 at 2:41 pm #101547

          I gave my runner the week off this week because she has a ton of work to do, so I just told her to get in 6 miles on Monday, do some abs circuits on Tuesday and Thursday, then 6 more miles on Friday.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on September 16, 2010 at 12:35 pm #102026

          Just wanted to keep all readers of this journal updated…

          Just moved the athlete up to 7 mile runs at 8:10 pace. She said she the runs feel great, unlike when she first started a couple months ago where she would struggle after mile 3 of 5.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on September 21, 2010 at 1:10 pm #102132

          Here are this weeks workouts…

          Monday
          (WORKOUT: 5 x 500m @ 75-80% 9 (1:20) with 60s rest
          core/ab circuits
          weight circuit (12 lifts, 2 x 10 ea.)

          Tuesday
          7 mile run at 7:55 mile pace

          Wednesday
          (WORKOUT: 4 x 15m; 4 x 20m; 4 x 25m
          plyos: standing long jumps, standing triple jumps

          (WEIGHTS: hang cleans: 6 x 2; DB press: 7 x 4; 3 position squats: 6 x 3; T-RDL: 2 x 6 multi throws: three separate throws, 2x ea.

          Thursday
          off day

          Friday
          hurdle mobility
          30 x 100m with 30s rest
          general strength circuit
          weight circuit (12 lifts, 2 x 10 ea.)

          Saturday
          7 mile run at 7:55 mile pace

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on September 21, 2010 at 1:12 pm #102133

          Here are the results of today’s session. She seemed to have a decent workout. Her times were pretty much on the mark.

          Monday
          (WORKOUT: 5 x 500m @ 75-80% 9 (1:20) with 60s rest

          1:47, 1:47, 1:49, 1:51, 1:49

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