Hello,
I am new to elitetrack and triple jump at a community college. I was wanting to know how many contacts of bounding should be done for the General Preperation, Specific Preperation, Power Preperation, and In season to have the jump strength to triple jump 48 or 49 feet? This would be coming from a 46' 3" PR (which is mine). Should a jumper progress from skipping to light load of bounding to a great load of bounding? How much bounding should a triple jumper do in a week in all these phases, and progression? Any reply would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
multijump/bounding periodization for TJ
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Welcome agentwinburn! You have the right idea about progressive loads of bounding. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by power preparation as a phase, seeing that many coaches here consider power preparation as integrated in all phases of training, instead of having just one block of training where it is converted. I am also a triple jumper with goals similar to yours. In general preparation, about the extent of what I do for jumps is in-place jumps, short end jumps, and light/medium intensity multi-jumps (in circuit fashion). Here, I believe Mike and others don't necessarily even count the number of contacts, when the intensity is so low. Instead, you could go for time. I typically don't like to start with higher intensity extended bounding (esp. single leg contacts with longer flight times) until Specific Preparation Phase. When that comes around, I like to often have the setup be technical jumps earlier in the week, and higher volume, high powered plyometrics (alt. leg bounding, single leg hopping, etc) later in the week. Looking back on it, my best sessions with the type of work you are seeking came after two easy days, when my legs were fresh. Good things happened on those Saturdays, back in the day. My setup is somewhat different now, in that I place a larger emphasis on speed and technique development, but nevertheless I still like to reserve that type of bounding/extended plyometric work for only once a week. In a single session, consider starting at ~125 contacts of different plyos, including bounding, in SPP, and build up to ~225 contacts by the end of SPP…progressively ramp up both volume and intensity throughout. 12 weeks is all I need to make big gains, and then I taper off of it for the competitions in Pre-Comp and Comp. You'll want to put in the majority of the bounding work before the competitions begin. I don't like to do extended bounding in season; it is time to compete. I've seen many athletes busted up by unsuccessfully mixing the two. Remember, it is not really how much bounding you do, but how you execute it that matters most.
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Little of a different opinion about bounding here!
I???m not sure if I like the idea of progressively increase both volume and intensity when it comes to different kinds of bounding. Actually, I have grown increasingly sceptical to the notion that triple jumpers need to have that many bounding-type contacts in their training regimen at all. I know it???s something of a tenet that triple jumpers need to do lots of bounding ??? kind of in the same way sprinters need to sprint. However, it seems that many of the top jumpers have moved away from such an approach.
Justifying large-volume-medium-intensity bounding from an ???impact-capacity??? standpoint is, I think, difficult to justify. The triple jump only has two contacts, and only one is of primary concern in regards to impact??? landing the hop! Position and timing here seems to be far more important than any capacity to withstand impact or force absorbing ability anyway.
Perhaps there???s a learning curve involved here: beginners learn positioning, timing and rhythm by bounding; when such learning is sufficient the focus is directed elsewhere? On the other hand, perhaps bounding isn???t that effective as a learning tool at all?
Perhaps a vast amount of bounding could be substituted for drills, triple jumping and a small quantity of very intense plyometrics? This way a greater reserve would be utilized for sprinting and weight training in the overall training plan?
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lorien,
I have never heard of a good top triple jumper moving away from the approach of bounding. Where do you get that information from? You are right about timing, rhythm, and positioning… but what about the value of multijumps being used to perfect the technique of takeoff in a natural sport specifc way? Multijumps are necessary for a GOOD triple jumper because they develop explosive power in the best possible way as far as sport specifc training goes. There are some weight training lifts that will develop explosive power, but you would have to power clean, snatch, whatever up to at least 8 times your body weight, because in a GOOD triple jump the force applied to the jumpers body is up to 10 times the jumpers body weight. We would all have to be Jonathan Edwards type from what I am understanding about your post. Plus not everyone can power clean, snatch, whatever a lot of weight because of too much technique. Lifting has its place for injury prevention. The triple jump requires a great deal of power. I'll give you an example, Willy Banks in an interview said that he only used weight training for injury prevention and could only parallel squat 250. He says most of if not all his strength came from bounding. I don't know many better jumpers than Willy in this lifetime, but that's my opinion of the guy. Thanks for the response though. And please let me know what you think. -
Participant
Ok so maybe not lifting up to 8 times your body weight! But at least 3 or 4 times your body weight on the power clean, snatch,jerk and whatever else there is.
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Ok so maybe not lifting up to 8 times your body weight! But at least 3 or 4 times your body weight on the power clean, snatch,jerk and whatever else there is.
thats huge to clean 3-4 times ur bw.
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Wonder what Banks jumped before training seriously…
Edward's stuff is the real deal. He could clean 2x his bw. Maybe he needed this kind of intensity in the lifting to be able to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice (could only imagine how hard that was on him to jump at or near 100%).
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Wonder what Banks jumped before training seriously…
Edward's stuff is the real deal. He could clean 2x his bw. Maybe he needed this kind of intensity in the lifting to be able to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice (could only imagine how hard that was on him to jump at or near 100%).
https://www.athleticslinks.com/art/banks.php
says his pr in the 100 was 11.0
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Participant3 x is a rare feat with olympic lifters. 4 x impossible. Please don't post random BS.
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[quote author="davan" date="1161289903"]
Wonder what Banks jumped before training seriously…Edward's stuff is the real deal. He could clean 2x his bw. Maybe he needed this kind of intensity in the lifting to be able to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice (could only imagine how hard that was on him to jump at or near 100%).
https://www.athleticslinks.com/art/banks.php
says his pr in the 100 was 11.0
[/quote]And he won state meet as a jr in hs (I assume in triple or long). Just saying, these guys can probably get away with not doing the same kind of lifting with their genes. From my high school there were a couple guys under 6' dunking when they couldn't break 11.8h in the 100m or lift to save their life. None of us who could run faster and lift heavier at the same weight/height could even come close.
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3 x is a rare feat with olympic lifters. 4 x impossible. Please don't post random BS.
That isn't random. I can squat 2.7 times my bodyweight. If you want I'll give you my coaches contact info so you can get some assurance of truth if you like. It wasn't BS in my opinion because, yes you are right it is unrealistic to clean 3 or 4 times body wt, I was trying to make my point… if you read what I was responding to. Sorry for the confusion Carl Valle.
Wonder what Banks jumped before training seriously…
Edward's stuff is the real deal. He could clean 2x his bw. Maybe he needed this kind of intensity in the lifting to be able to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice (could only imagine how hard that was on him to jump at or near 100%).What do you mean by intensity in the lifting to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice? Do you mean if explosive strength is so high in lifting, then you can do less volume of bounding for the necessary strength to pop a good jump? Please let me know.
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you said cleans, snatches, and jerks….squats that is fine. Your exercise list was the olympic lifts.
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[quote author="Carl Valle" date="1161296950"]
3 x is a rare feat with olympic lifters. 4 x impossible. Please don't post random BS.That isn't random. I can squat 2.7 times my bodyweight. If you want I'll give you my coaches contact info so you can get some assurance of truth if you like. It wasn't BS in my opinion because, yes you are right it is unrealistic to clean 3 or 4 times body wt, I was trying to make my point… if you read what I was responding to. Sorry for the confusion Carl Valle.
Wonder what Banks jumped before training seriously…
Edward's stuff is the real deal. He could clean 2x his bw. Maybe he needed this kind of intensity in the lifting to be able to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice (could only imagine how hard that was on him to jump at or near 100%).What do you mean by intensity in the lifting to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice? Do you mean if explosive strength is so high in lifting, then you can do less volume of bounding for the necessary strength to pop a good jump? Please let me know.
[/quote]I mean that when you can jump at that high of level, you may need to cut back on the jumps since they are so intense. By increasing lifting volume (or intensity), you could continue improving despite the slight lowering in volumes on the jumps (which may be needed at that level).
2.7 is impressive is that's to parallel or below… most jumpers I've heard of are nowhere near that.
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2.7 is impressive is that's to parallel or below… most jumpers I've heard of are nowhere near that.
Well… it is actually 2.656 if you do the math. But that one guy made me a little mad so I rounded it, which isn't much difference but i should have said 2.656. Anyways, to explain I weighed 160 last year and could "parallel" 425 in the back squat. The real reason is because I was a psycho and used creatine and whey protien which is all legal but i used it in excess. Soon following that test I injured my hamstring bad and it took 6 months to heal because I kept coming back so soon. Now I weight 169 as of yesterday and no longer take creatine, but i do whey protien still. I haven't been able to max lift now for 4 or 5 months + or – a week. But that's why I bring up this post cause I only jumped 46'3". So I don't really believe in strength in the weight room like I used to because I wanted a 48. I am thinking about taking Banks for his word on injury prevention in weight room only and just getting my strength and power from med ball throwing, jumping, bounding, sled bounding, and more bounding. I've only been jumping for 3 years so maybe should still give more credit to the weight room… and maybe not.
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[quote author="mortac8" date="1161292582"]
[quote author="davan" date="1161289903"]
Wonder what Banks jumped before training seriously…Edward's stuff is the real deal. He could clean 2x his bw. Maybe he needed this kind of intensity in the lifting to be able to tolerate jumping lower volumes in practice (could only imagine how hard that was on him to jump at or near 100%).
https://www.athleticslinks.com/art/banks.php
says his pr in the 100 was 11.0
[/quote]And he won state meet as a jr in hs (I assume in triple or long). Just saying, these guys can probably get away with not doing the same kind of lifting with their genes. From my high school there were a couple guys under 6' dunking when they couldn't break 11.8h in the 100m or lift to save their life. None of us who could run faster and lift heavier at the same weight/height could even come close.
[/quote]why do u think?
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It appears there might be some sort of misunderstanding regarding my post :angel: Perhaps it???s best I define what I mean by bounding. Basically I???m talking about everything from 5-20-steps, hops, and alternations. Usually these are done at either low or medium intensity, sometimes at high intensity, but then we???re often talking about testing situations.
Now, I???m not advocating abandoning these altogether ??? they still have their place, although perhaps not as an important from a learning standpoint. My biggest concern is, what I already mentioned, in increasing both volume and intensity (GPP to SPP) in these modalities. I think the opposite should be the case; if volume is high, intensity should be low and vice versa. Remember that there are also sprinting and strength components involved here. Having high volumes at high intensities together with intensification in speed and strength training at the same time might not be the best option. This is strictly talking from a planning standpoint.
Now to the bounding as a learning tool for the takeoff: I think we???re better off training movements instead of calculating foot impacts. The ability to withstand impact is, I think, somewhat overemphasized. We have to see what???s happening in the actual jump. First, the horizontal speed at the board is usually over 10m/s. Second, the takeoff should be more like an extension of running than an impact based jump; meaning the free movers together with hip posture are deciding the height of the hop. Technical learning here should come from running off the board, not by repetitive low speed monotonic boundings. In lower intensities (higher volumes) we have a great arsenal of drills we can use. (repetitive takeoffs with a little running in between etc). In higher intensities (lower volumes) we can, for instance, make the whole hop into the pit up to full approach speed.
It???s very difficult to find the same reactions and movement sensation needed in high speed triple jump by performing repetitive hops or alternations. The speed isn???t there, the time in the air is too short, and the free movers find it hard to really drive through. What we can do??? is focusing on foot plant and hip alignment. But this can be done at very low intensities. Why not go directly towards actual jumping and plyos if one desires higher intensities and impacts?
Proper foot plant and hip alignment is the easy part, easily achieved by low intensities at moderate volumes because they can stay in the program all the way through, without interfering with other modalities that grows in intensity. Movement sensation, rhythm and lever reactions is harder, therefore we might be better off by dividing them into partial drills where we can continue at lower intensities rather than force bounding into medium-high intensities. Why no go for a low/high approach here too.
***
I know Edwards is a bit extreme, since he eliminated almost any other form of jumping/bounding of except triple jump from his program. There???s also a misconception about his training when it comes to weight training intensities. Even though he cleaned 152,5kg and snatched 112kg, the majority of loads weren???t really extremely high. He had a very moderate progression throughout the training years. For instance, in March 2000 he used loads around 100-115kg in the clean.Also, few people know that Olsson is cleaning 140kg, no bad from a skinny tall guy. Olsson seems to have followed the ???drills over bounding??? path too: Lots of different drills in the program, much less traditional bounding. Nevertheless, he manages 25m in 5-steps (free speed, probably 8-10 step approach thou) when testing.
The Brazilians also seems to have moved towards quality rather than quantity. Gregorio is now training with Edward???s former coach, so the approach might be even more extreme now?
Walter???s training is outlined here somewhere, and Mike is the best one here to explain it. I???m not really sure if there???s a definite low/high approach, although by looking at where drills, bounding and low approach jumping is placed (between high intensity days) it might resemble what I tried to explain here?
***I don???t think we are talking about whether or not to perform traditional boundings, more like how much, at what intensities, and what else can contribute better towards technical learning.
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KeymasterThis is turning out to be a great thread and unfortunately I don't have much time right now to respond but I do want to throw in that Walter Davis, Marcus Thomas, Levar Anderson, Lejuan Simon, Chris Hercules and John Moffitt (all of whom jumped over 56 feet) never did any traditional bounding work outside of what they did in short run jumps. They would do very low amplitude multi-jumps that could technically be considered bounding but the amplitudes were extremely low and the emphasis was on technical development and not physical development. The only other thing that was done that would even fall close to the umbrella of traditional bounding is short jump series like (L-L-L) or (R-R-L) where they'd do 6 or so variants of these exercises 2-3x each for 1-2 cycles of the year.
ELITETRACK Founder
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:dance: :dance: :dance: :bouncing: :bouncy:
can't help but love the icons!"Luke Lowery" quite eccentric, a bit arrogant, quite the salesman too…..but I think Luke is a qualified pro and super educated in our field (performance). I'd like to get someones perspective on Luke's philosophy………all BS aside.Something about resilient strength, whether it's SSC, type IIB, mechanics of levers ( I've heard the idea that big feet contributed to better take-offs isn't really legit :puzzled: ). I thought it was a leverage advantage.
I honestly believe that rhythms, kinesthetic feel for the ground force application, even conscious recognition of the right "feel" or cues impact jump performance. I know that lifting big numbers isn't the key. Olympic lifters seem more to be "jumping" with big weights rather than hoisting!
Training the eccentric component makes sense ( NSCA journal, was it Nov. of 01'? ) had a great article for advanced high jump training theory. The drills were simple: plyo type :puzzled:landings, take-off to landing, etc. – mixed with basic bounds and speed strength work.
This may seem silly, but I use a "pogo ball" ( toy from the 80's – check ToysRus ) to teach "feel" for jump activities and bounds. They are great for complex ( 3 heavy reps on bench and 5 plyo push-ups with the pogo ball ). It at least has some means of creating the feel of a faster arm strike. I tell my athletes that the feel of the pogo ball must become the feel of the lower half's resilient impact on the ground. If that doesn't work, I show them Kenny Harrison film…….now you see a human pogo :bouncy: :bouncing: 🙄 :splat:
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Lorien and all you other guys :thumbup:
I'm a coach and certified jump freak ( CSCS, Level II this and that with enough :dance: and BS to go with my real passion for T & F ).
So much of the posted info is "right on" with research. Anyone who can break down the Brazillian, European, LSU, Polish method, Russian shock training – it used to be called, creatine do's and don't's, you people are my people. Ever hear of Starzynski ( he passed away last year ) – one of the greatest coaches of all – time from Poland. Check out his work. Power Training for Athletics – check the web.
Anyone who is squatting in the 400's, bounding, working technique – and you're still below 48'………..
Take a deep breath brother! Milan Tiff, this goes way back – gave up lifting for ballet and studies of wildlife ( how they moved and such, this isn't me BS'ing either ). Sometimes a re-focus of our mental plan, ideaology, even getting into the spirituality of what we do and why………you ain't gonna' jump forever, but you'll never forget the feeling of that successful "happenin'" It just sounds like this JUCO athlete has the dream………so, take a deep breath and believe :angel: peace -
Participant
mmmm okei I'm a little worried about some things, I hope that you guys can tell me how much do this affect:
I can't do weights due to a strange pain in the lowest part of the knee, right in the insertion of the patellar tendon caused by " the normal grown of a guy of 17 years", I can normally run, jump, etc, also I can do some lifts, like cleans, snatch, etc, but when I do squats it starts hurting me on that site…so I have till today around 3 months of no squats…
How much does not doing squats in a time could affect my progression??
also I planing to start cleaning, snatching, bench pressing, etc, but I think that the squats is the most important workout for a sprinter/jumper…but I don't know…so please help me guys
somehting strange here is the next things also if someone can explain I will be happy:
after 3 months of no lifts and just 2 weeks of little jog and my normal grown pain…my coach put me to chek a 300 and I do it in shoes in 37.45 …the strange thing here is that this is my PB because at the end of the past season I checked in spikes 37.78…why?at the next day I checked the standing LJ and I jump 2.90 meters, I know thats not a huge jump, but my PB of the past seasonwas 2.71 meters…again same situation
afew minutes afyter the standing LJ I cheked the standing Triple Jump and I jump 11.59 meters…40 cm more than my past season PB in the standing TJ…
I don't know what the hell is happening with me, I feel myself confused because I haven't lift in 3 months and I come back to trainings with better marks than the past season when I've lifted a lot.
I'm a 45' Tjumper and a poor 20' Ljumper, so I would be happi to know If I can improve to 47' in TJ and 21' in LJ??…. with NO SQUATS this season
Thanks for the replies
PD- sorry about the poor grammar I'm from Mexico
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Participant
Lorien and all you other guys :thumbup:
I'm a coach and certified jump freak ( CSCS, Level II this and that with enough :dance: and BS to go with my real passion for T & F ).
So much of the posted info is "right on" with research. Anyone who can break down the Brazillian, European, LSU, Polish method, Russian shock training – it used to be called, creatine do's and don't's, you people are my people. Ever hear of Starzynski ( he passed away last year ) – one of the greatest coaches of all – time from Poland. Check out his work. Power Training for Athletics – check the web.
Anyone who is squatting in the 400's, bounding, working technique – and you're still below 48'………..
Take a deep breath brother! Milan Tiff, this goes way back – gave up lifting for ballet and studies of wildlife ( how they moved and such, this isn't me BS'ing either ). Sometimes a re-focus of our mental plan, ideaology, even getting into the spirituality of what we do and why………you ain't gonna' jump forever, but you'll never forget the feeling of that successful "happenin'" It just sounds like this JUCO athlete has the dream………so, take a deep breath and believe :angel: peaceThanks for the breather antigravitydocg. :-). By the way, what is a JUCO athlete? I hope it is good if I am one. You read me like a book too. I have a big problem with believing in my training is enough… trying to change that though. It must be true about the mind being better than the body.
Yes, I have read Starzynski's material. The Explosive Power book he wrote was the first book I ever purchased on jumping and the only material I read during my 1st year out 3 I've been jumping. On the page that talks about periodization and volume being taken up from 1 year through 7 years. The number of bounding contacts each year increases by 1000. If that's valid on any circumstance then it would make sense to use traditional bounding workouts twice a week for strength and power in the sport specific and pre competition period or phase rather than using barbell with weights(except for injury prevention). The weight training in his book is using weights at the beginning of a season and gradually using less and less weight training(besides very fast 1/2 squats performed in a timed fashion) and using multijumps instead because of their sport specific and teaching nature in a natural way. Then there's always the agrument of weight training like power cleans and explosive lifts teach you the proper firing and technique. It is specific to triple jumping in nature(proper firing) but not near as sport specific as multijumps with or with a prerun are to the triple jump.
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Participant
mmmm okei I'm a little worried about some things, I hope that you guys can tell me how much do this affect:
I can't do weights due to a strange pain in the lowest part of the knee, right in the insertion of the patellar tendon caused by " the normal grown of a guy of 17 years", I can normally run, jump, etc, also I can do some lifts, like cleans, snatch, etc, but when I do squats it starts hurting me on that site…so I have till today around 3 months of no squats…
How much does not doing squats in a time could affect my progression??
also I planing to start cleaning, snatching, bench pressing, etc, but I think that the squats is the most important workout for a sprinter/jumper…but I don't know…so please help me guys
somehting strange here is the next things also if someone can explain I will be happy:
after 3 months of no lifts and just 2 weeks of little jog and my normal grown pain…my coach put me to chek a 300 and I do it in shoes in 37.45 …the strange thing here is that this is my PB because at the end of the past season I checked in spikes 37.78…why?at the next day I checked the standing LJ and I jump 2.90 meters, I know thats not a huge jump, but my PB of the past seasonwas 2.71 meters…again same situation
afew minutes afyter the standing LJ I cheked the standing Triple Jump and I jump 11.59 meters…40 cm more than my past season PB in the standing TJ…
I don't know what the hell is happening with me, I feel myself confused because I haven't lift in 3 months and I come back to trainings with better marks than the past season when I've lifted a lot.
I'm a 45' Tjumper and a poor 20' Ljumper, so I would be happi to know If I can improve to 47' in TJ and 21' in LJ??…. with NO SQUATS this season
Thanks for the replies
PD- sorry about the poor grammar I'm from Mexico
If you can clean and do the like then start now! Carl Lewis didn't really do squats and is one of the best of all time. May not be optimal, but it can be done. Get a program together. Also, I would be very careful of something that causes pain like that and I have doubts about how "normal" it is as most people do not have that, so it clearly isn't normal (but whether you can control it or not is another thing).
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Participant
He may be talking about this: https://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/indexjumpersknee.html
or this: https://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic347.htm
The normal growth of a guy of 17 yrs. of age will get you the type of improvements you seem surprised by. You are still physically maturing, even without the weights. Your superior marks without the training could also suggest overtraining/improper rest periods/etc. from before. However, the lack of training at the time of your new bests likely means you won't be able to repeat those performances consistently (as a competition season demands). You'll be fine without the squats at this point. Athletes your age can certainly and have hit the marks you are looking for without the weights. I know athletes that have hit 47' and 23' at that age, and could jump out of the gym, by things like bounding, jumping around with a weight vest (basketball, etc), and by competing (at a time when they hadn't yet found the weightroom). Later, when you plateau with your marks and when the pain is gone, the squats may come in handy to break barriers. Yes a program can come in handy, but I'm thinking perhaps at times (esp. at a younger age and for those that haven't plateaued) it may be more beneficial to be less systematic and just 'jump around' in different settings and experiment with different workouts. Antigravitdocg's post really resonated with me. I've recently had instruction by a great coach that said he could get me 3 extra feet in the triple jump through bounding, salsa dancing, and a weight vest alone. There's something potent about having a deep understanding and feel for movement. He related to me seeing a guy try to long jump that could deep squat 700 lbs.+, but he applied the force in such a way that he shattered the take-off board and landed only a 5 meter jump. This past year, proper strength training, etc., as I learned it here took me and the jumpers I coach a long way toward where we wanted to be. On top of that, reconnecting with movements such as agentwinburn8604 points out, "using multijumps instead because of their sport specific and teaching nature in a natural way", may be the x-factor, the unknown factor which will top it all off, though logic may suggest is less than ideal. I am caught between two seemingly opposing schools of thought, perhaps like agentwinburn8604 is, and looking for a way to bridge the two. Just some rambling thoughts at 3:00 am. I've got a great respect for both worlds, but it has left me, too, a bit confused in my search for certainty.
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Participant
He may be talking about this: https://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/indexjumpersknee.html
or this: https://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic347.htm
The normal growth of a guy of 17 yrs. of age will get you the type of improvements you seem surprised by. You are still physically maturing, even without the weights. Your superior marks without the training could also suggest overtraining/improper rest periods/etc. from before. However, the lack of training at the time of your new bests likely means you won't be able to repeat those performances consistently (as a competition season demands). You'll be fine without the squats at this point. Athletes your age can certainly and have hit the marks you are looking for without the weights. I know athletes that have hit 47' and 23' at that age, and could jump out of the gym, by things like bounding, jumping around with a weight vest (basketball, etc), and by competing (at a time when they hadn't yet found the weightroom). Later, when you plateau with your marks and when the pain is gone, the squats may come in handy to break barriers. Yes a program can come in handy, but I'm thinking perhaps at times (esp. at a younger age and for those that haven't plateaued) it may be more beneficial to be less systematic and just 'jump around' in different settings and experiment with different workouts. Antigravitdocg's post really resonated with me. I've recently had instruction by a great coach that said he could get me 3 extra feet in the triple jump through bounding, salsa dancing, and a weight vest alone. There's something potent about having a deep understanding and feel for movement. He related to me seeing a guy try to long jump that could deep squat 700 lbs.+, but he applied the force in such a way that he shattered the take-off board and landed only a 5 meter jump. This past year, proper strength training, etc., as I learned it here took me and the jumpers I coach a long way toward where we wanted to be. On top of that, reconnecting with movements such as agentwinburn8604 points out, "using multijumps instead because of their sport specific and teaching nature in a natural way", may be the x-factor, the unknown factor which will top it all off, though logic may suggest is less than ideal. I am caught between two seemingly opposing schools of thought, perhaps like agentwinburn8604 is, and looking for a way to bridge the two. Just some rambling thoughts at 3:00 am. I've got a great respect for both worlds, but it has left me, too, a bit confused in my search for certainty.
Wow¡ SaltoJump that's my problem the inflamation of the patellar tendon, but let me told to you guys my history:
When the past season comes to the end…I start to rest and have fun not even played any sport, just stay at home watch TV and play Nintendo, one day in the morning the pain started and I don't know why because…I wasn't be doing anything and I didn't give importance to it, but as the time pass the pain goes a little up, at this point I can't put myself in any position that pressures my knee because the pain starts to do it's work, so after this, I go with a doctor that attend the state athletes and he told me that I have that problem, he started giving me therapies and told me to take some anti-inflamatory medicine, after 2 weeks the pain in any position that pressures my knee dissapears, and know I have 1 month training without any problem, just watching out to put ice bags in my knee every day after my workout, but anyway the pain is off…with the exception of the squats is the only workout that I can't do…
I say that the pain was normal because othe doctor todl me that the pain has been caused by the normal growing of a guy of my age…but I don't know whats is exactly this problem…by the way I keep myself with the ice bags and I didn't have any problem in a month, so I want to start lifting know and do snatches, clean, etc…but no squats…
I never know that Carl Lewis didn't do to much squats that's really surprising to me…
C ya guys
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Participant
the next day I checked the standing LJ and I jump 2.90 meters, I know thats not a huge jump, but my PB of the past seasonwas 2.71 meters…again same situation
afew minutes afyter the standing LJ I cheked the standing Triple Jump and I jump 11.59 meters…40 cm more than my past season PB in the standing TJ…
I don't know what the hell is happening with me, I feel myself confused because I haven't lift in 3 months and I come back to trainings with better marks than the past season when I've lifted a lot.
I'm a 45' Tjumper and a poor 20' Ljumper, so I would be happi to know If I can improve to 47' in TJ and 21' in LJ??…. with NO SQUATS this season
Thanks for the replies
PD- sorry about the poor grammar I'm from Mexico
how do u execute the standing triple jump, because thats not a very accurate mark for the traditional STJ.
you can improve your standing long jump through improving your technique/landing.
also for you i would focus on speed, having a poor lj vs tj usually means ur getting by on just natural strength/jumping ability with limited speed. follow a simple gpp sprint program like utfootball and bust ur ass.
about the squat/clean debate
i just think that a heavy deep squat is going to strengthen the lower back and posterior chain so much more than the clean will….your going to get the most bang for ur buck out of it with the lower back work…if u dont have the time to lift that is.
i dont see why u couldnt all the lifts each lifting session. (squatting, ol's) with supplementary back work.
just get in the weightroom! something is better than nothing. -
Participant
about the squat/clean debate
i just think that a heavy deep squat is going to strengthen the lower back and posterior chain so much more than the clean will….your going to get the most bang for ur buck out of it with the lower back work…if u dont have the time to lift that is.
i dont see why u couldnt all the lifts each lifting session. (squatting, ol's) with supplementary back work.
just get in the weightroom! something is better than nothing.I think because he has the knee injury which is preventing him from doing squats.
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Participant
also for you i would focus on speed, having a poor lj vs tj usually means ur getting by on just natural strength/jumping ability with limited speed. follow a simple gpp sprint program like utfootball and bust ur arse.
mmmm What About Jonathan Edwards, He run is best 100m in 10.45, also his best LJ was 7.45 m I think, and it's triple was 18.29 and 18.49w
anyway I think that maybe the problem is that I just didn't have enough speed, my 100 PB is 11.59…so it's normal that speed with my LJ ??
Thanks
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Participant
[quote author="flight05" date="1161503182"]
also for you i would focus on speed, having a poor lj vs tj usually means ur getting by on just natural strength/jumping ability with limited speed. follow a simple gpp sprint program like utfootball and bust ur arse.
mmmm What About Jonathan Edwards, He run is best 100m in 10.45, also his best LJ was 7.45 m I think, and it's triple was 18.29 and 18.49w
anyway I think that maybe the problem is that I just didn't have enough speed, my 100 PB is 11.59…so it's normal that speed with my LJ ??
Thanks
[/quote]Speed always helps in my opinion. However it's hard to give advice without seeing you jump. Here are some interesting things:
-Willie Banks claims his PB in the 100m was 11.0.
-Sam Okantey jumped at a meet I was at this year. He jumped like 15.50 (51'). His takeoff velocity could not have been more than 9m/s. Slow as hell but superb jumping power.
– I once had a 23' long jumper who's PB in the 100m was 12.00 and 6.86 55m -
Participant
i think speed allows you to jump good with poor tech.
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Participant
i think speed allows you to jump good with poor tech.
Melvin Lister?? also I don't know why I never had a good LJ compared with my triple and my speed is not that bad, a guys form other state her in Mexico runs in 12.10 the 100m and jumps 6.60m in Long Jump…so WTF?? :S
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Member
Anything that hurts the knees, you leave them alone!!! Osgood Schlatters ( check spelling ) could be an issue. You do tend to outgrow it; that doesn't make you feel any better. Patellar tendonitis can be a mystery too. If you can triple jump without pain…….that's the big deal.
In the mean time, solid core work, ankle flips, hip flexor work – these are critical for good TJ performance
I've had four knee surgeries, none of them minor. But, I'm from old school; I do a great deal of my coaching to enhance positive work and not beat the hell of an athlete's body.At 17, you might have some big jumps ahead of you. BE PATIENT!!! take it from an overachiever who beat himself in the ground. More is seldom better, Tune into your body; if you can clean or snatch w/out pain and technique is good – you are still doing the right thing. gotta' get to practice. peace, cg
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Participant
Now I'm 90% sure that my problem is the osgood-schlatter disease because I have all the symptoms:
-Just in one knee
-in boys around the 16 years
-with ice the pain goes
-antiinflamatory helpe dme a lot and reduced the pain a LOT.I investigated this days more about this disease and the solution is just leave activities that hurts me like the squats and wear a pad to reduce the pressure in my knee, also I would keep myself stretching a lot before and after the train, and finally puting ice every day in mi knee 20 minutes 2 tiemes a day.
I'm happy because I think that maybe my bones are getting bigger, and also the problem is not yo serious, now as antigravity dog says: get to practice !!!
also does anyone know if exist a relation between my 100m speed and my TJ distance to get a standar of what distance should I can LJ??
Thanks guys
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Participant
Now I'm 90% sure that my problem is the osgood-schlatter disease because I have all the symptoms:
-Just in one knee
-in boys around the 16 years
-with ice the pain goes
-antiinflamatory helpe dme a lot and reduced the pain a LOT.I investigated this days more about this disease and the solution is just leave activities that hurts me like the squats and wear a pad to reduce the pressure in my knee, also I would keep myself stretching a lot before and after the train, and finally puting ice every day in mi knee 20 minutes 2 tiemes a day.
I'm happy because I think that maybe my bones are getting bigger, and also the problem is not yo serious, now as antigravity dog says: get to practice !!!
also does anyone know if exist a relation between my 100m speed and my TJ distance to get a standar of what distance should I can LJ??
Thanks guys
i had the same problem as a kid but i found a way to work around it, i still did heavy squats and plyos but the doctor told me to do leg raises lying on the ground with a very slow tempo.
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