[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on July 28, 2012 at 8:16 am #18480

When we look at an athlete’s career we consider how much they improved the day they started with you until the time they graduate. The athlete highlighted in the picture I provided improved immensely during her time at our high school. Her first race in the 400 dash was an underwhelming 1:18.50 by the time she was a senior in high school she was able to run 60point as our lead off in the 4×400 me

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"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[star61]

star61 on July 30, 2012 at 1:34 am #117418

How did you make her a foot taller?

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on July 30, 2012 at 3:52 am #117420

I didn’t the environment did. Food, medicine, vitamins, playing sports when younger, etc. All of those can play a role.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Rune Brix]

Rune Brix on July 30, 2012 at 6:56 am #117421

In china the diet is alot healthier than in the USA. Lots of hole food, veges and fish. The lifestyle is a lot less sedentary.

Could you reference some of articles on gene expression.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on July 30, 2012 at 8:42 am #117422

I never stated that an average American diet is better for length of life. However, she has had more protein over the nearly two decades living in the states then an average Chinese person. She also has kept up a very active life. I do think there is something to be said when it comes to our diet in respects to average height, muscle mass, etc. It would make a VERY interesting research article. To wet your appetite I enclosed an article. Obviously, a quick Google search you get lots of articles. I choose this paper because in discusses at length diet in respects to genes. Hope this helps your search Rune B.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Rune Brix]

Rune Brix on July 30, 2012 at 10:03 am #117423

Thanks Ryan for the article. I misinterpreted your blog post, thank you for the clarification.

Yesterday i was so lucky to pick the mind off a nutrition expert. We talked about D-vitamin levels and she expressed that some of the newer research on D-vitamin question whether the levels of D-vitamin measured in blood samples was a relevant mark for whether or not the person was getting sufficient D-vitamin. A study was done one surfers in some very sun rise country and they had low levels than normal.

In relation to training i think its important to look not just at talent but how and how well athletes respond to different training stimuli.

Has anyone experience or research to share on the matter?

[star61]

star61 on July 31, 2012 at 2:26 am #117428

I didn’t the environment did. Food, medicine, vitamins, playing sports when younger, etc. All of those can play a role.

With all due respect, this just doesn’t fly. The differences in protein levels etc. between the U.S. and China absolutely does not retard the growth of China’s children making them a foot shorter than if they were raised int the U.S. The average female in China is 5′ 2″, and the average height for a U.S. female is around 5′ 4″. Is your girl really over 6 feet tall? The numbers vary depending on where you research, but its about a 2″ difference. And if you just compare females of Chinese descent living in the U.S. vs Chinese nationals, the difference is even smaller. I don’t think there is anything you could feed a young teenager, or any type of environmental situation you could put her in, that would alter her genes to the point that she would be 6″ taller, much less a foot. Its one thing if she were malnourished or sick, but the typical environment in China is not so much worse than the U.S., certainly not to the point that it would retard growth by more than an inch or two.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on July 31, 2012 at 3:39 am #117429

[quote author="Ryan Banta" date="1343600558"]I didn’t the environment did. Food, medicine, vitamins, playing sports when younger, etc. All of those can play a role.

With all due respect, this just doesn’t fly. The differences in protein levels etc. between the U.S. and China absolutely does not retard the growth of China’s children making them a foot shorter than if they were raised int the U.S. The average female in China is 5′ 2″, and the average height for a U.S. female is around 5′ 4″. Is your girl really over 6 feet tall? The numbers vary depending on where you research, but its about a 2″ difference. And if you just compare females of Chinese descent living in the U.S. vs Chinese nationals, the difference is even smaller. I don’t think there is anything you could feed a young teenager, or any type of environmental situation you could put her in, that would alter her genes to the point that she would be 6″ taller, much less a foot. Its one thing if she were malnourished or sick, but the typical environment in China is not so much worse than the U.S., certainly not to the point that it would retard growth by more than an inch or two.[/quote]

Star61: Sorry, but you don’t understand how genetic expression works. Chinese human and cultural diversity are quite expansive and profound, but unless you are in the ruling class in China you cannot recreate in China what is typical of the United States. Genes are not altered but expressed differently in the United States than in China mainly derived from cultural differences that cannot be escaped within local settings in China compared to local settings in the US. Chinese sports programs would not have probably bypassed someone over who runs a 400m in 79s at age 13-14 and in fact it is quite easy to say a bunch of US coaches probably wouldn’t have expected much either and the girl would have been stereotyped. Once you escape stereotypes, you are able to escape the local optima of given abilities.

[Josh Hurlebaus]

Josh Hurlebaus on July 31, 2012 at 4:00 am #117430

Placebo affect, genetic style. If you think you’re getting better (or you simply remove preconceived expectations), you will.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on July 31, 2012 at 6:40 am #117431

Daniel agreed. I believe the most amazing and sad example is the difference between North and South Korea in respects to their populations height.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[star61]

star61 on July 31, 2012 at 8:43 am #117432

Theoretical musing aside, the actual thing that can’t be escaped, and perhaps something that a couple of posters don’t understand themselves, is the statistical truth about differences in height with respect to Chinese nationals, Chinese Americans, and non-Chinese Americans. The differences in height are a couple of inches, perhaps three at most…but certainly not 12 full inches. And even if nutritional differences are a key to these differences, it certainly does not mean they are reflected at the genetic level. Normally health related issues, and other environmental issues, retard growth, but it is not reflected at the genetic level.

I would be very interested in seeing a peer reviewed scientific study that draws the conclusion that simply moving a child from a typical Chinese environment to a typical (or even atypical) American environment would result in changes in gene expression resulting in a difference in height of one full foot. I’ll wager such a study does not exist.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on July 31, 2012 at 9:05 am #117433

On does not exist but what you are missing is why are those Chinese Americans not all that much taller. You still can look at that data and go the law of averages only 3 inches shorter. I hope you dont forget the numbers that sit on both sides of that average. Many people on one might not even be shorter they could be taller that is the laws of averages. However, do you deny the possibility of an outlier? In addition 3 inches is VERY large number think of Usian Bolt with all his gifts would you know his name if he was 3 inches shorter????? Maybe not. Think about what that total difference in does over the course of 100 meters? Two strides to three strides? The difference between being the fastest man ever and someone nobody ever heard of. Now as for your focus being on the issue of hieght. Do you deny there is a difference or in this example? My school is the most deverse school in the St. Louis Metro area. I can tell you this difference does not just lie with her and her parents. However, it is an extreme difference and it is why it has been presented to make a strong point in addition to get people talking. Do you deny all the other differences or other points of the blog?

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[star61]

star61 on July 31, 2012 at 9:36 am #117434

On does not exist but what you are missing is why are those Chinese Americans not all that much taller. You still can look at that data and go the law of averages only 3 inches shorter. I hope you dont forget the numbers that sit on both sides of that average. Many people on one might not even be shorter they could be taller that is the laws of averages. However, do you deny the possibility of an outlier? In addition 3 inches is VERY large number think of Usian Bolt with all his gifts would you know his name if he was 3 inches shorter????? Maybe not. Think about what that total difference in does over the course of 100 meters? Two strides to three strides? The difference between being the fastest man ever and someone nobody ever heard of. Now as for your focus being on the issue of height. Do you deny there is a difference or in this example? My school is the most deverse school in the St. Louis Metro area. I can tell you this difference does not just lie with her and her parents. However, it is an extreme difference and it is why it has been presented to make a strong point in addition to get people talking. Do you deny all the other differences or other points of the blog?

To have an outlier you first have to have a population measured under the same set of conditions. You cannot draw scientific, or even psuedo-scientific conclusions from a single example. She is not an outlier from a population, she is the single population point of your one person qualitative observation. It is an anecdotal example. That statement is not meant to be critical, it is simply the truth.

One could say its because she ate cheetos or drank Tang and have just as much scientific credibility. To look at one girl who may or may not be above average height and draw conclusions that some genetic change has taken place is a stretch to be generous. Your reference to variation and standard deviation would more than explain her, even if she is above average. How tall is this girl anyway? Again, the average height for a Chinese national female is 5’2″, more or less. Is she 6’2″? How tall are her parents?

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on August 1, 2012 at 11:43 pm #117449

https://www.iol.co.za/sport/athletics/nature-or-nurture-to-make-a-sprinter-1.1353352

Food for thought

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Mccabe]

Mccabe on August 1, 2012 at 11:56 pm #117450

I don’t think that discussion on Phelps adds anything here. What your was OP was a nice success story, but as Star has pointed out it is just that.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on August 2, 2012 at 1:00 am #117451

Sorry fixed link.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[star61]

star61 on August 2, 2012 at 2:08 am #117452

Ryan,

I never stated that nurture isn’t important and that some physiological changes can happen with improved nutrition etc. However, these does not necessarily imply changes are occurring at the genetic level, and adds nothing to support the notion that simply adding protein to the diet can boost the height of a growing child by a foot. As Callam pointed out, you seemed to have helped the girl improve her 400m times over the course of four years and undoubtedly she is much more fit and healthy than she might be had she not run track, but there is no way you will ever convince me she is a foot taller than she would have been had she been raised in China and not running track. Again, can you tell us how tall she is now?