posted on 6-18-2002 at 10:48 PM by jacko
How do you guys go about developing speed endurance/Special endurance, what type of work do you do in the various stages of the year. (I assume that you guys move from speed -> speed endurance in your high intensity work ala Seagrave, Pfaff, Francis).
posted on 6-19-2002 at 01:10 AM by mike
We handle it a little bit different I think. Speed endurance is never really too much of a focus because the group is mostly jumpers (who other than 2 men and 1 woman are all strictly jumpers- meaning that they don’t have to specifically train to run anything longer than 40m). The multis do slightly different workouts as the year progresses to address their greater need for speed endurance.
The whole group does do what most would consider our “hard” running workout on Saturday mornings. This is the only day that we do typical interval type stuff. In the summer the workout might be something like 3 x 500m, 4 x 400m, 5 x 300m with 2′ recoveries then progress to something like 5 x 250m with 2′ recoveries and finally to something like 250m, 200m, 2 x 150m with 4-6′ recoveries. You can fill in the gaps there, but that would take you from summer workouts through peaking. Multis might do a second running workout earlier in the week but it would be more of a 1500m workout than a true speed endurance workout.
posted on 6-19-2002 at 02:17 AM by jacko
Mike, just to clarify
3×500, 4×400, 5×300 are three seperate workouts (I almost died the first time I read it).
Sounds similary to the way I did things last season, This years change is we include special endurance at 90-95% from the early stages, then add speed endurance 80-150m 95%+ in pre comp when our Vmax levels are already in place, we also include some tempo work all year to increase general endurance.
My Sprinters seems to like it this way in that if they are going long its relatively fast with long recoveries.
posted on 6-19-2002 at 06:28 AM by mike
sorry to give you a heart attack!
Sorry about that, I should have clarified….yes, the 3 x 500 is one workout, 4 x 400 is another, etc. Those are our summer time workouts. The rest of what you’re doing sounds good. That’s how I’d probably do it if I were training sprinters. I have an article on this very topic located here: https://elitetrack.com/sprinttheories.htm
posted on 6-20-2002 at 05:35 AM by jacko
whats an average week look like for you guys in specific prep, mine is as follows
M Accel, MT, Wts
Th Vmax or speed end, MT, Wts
S Special Endurance
posted on 6-26-2002 at 11:30 PM by jacko
what approach does coach Shaver take for deveoping speed endurance, I have spoken with Loren Seagrave on this topic (lots of extensive tempo early).
Also do you think there is much transfer from Intensive tempo work (say 5×300 90% 5 min RI) to the lactic tolerance/Production required at Racing. speeds or is the intensive stuff just unnescessary pain.
posted on 6-27-2002 at 04:59 AM by mike
Here’s our typical running workout breakdown. Keep in mind these are jumpers (HJ, LJ, TJ, PV) and not sprinters. The athletes at LSU have the luxury of not having to double up as sprinters and jumpers and so can concentrate their training specifically on jump specific training.
Mon- Acceleration Development
Tues- Jumps technique (short approach)
Wednesday- Runway work
Thursday-Jumps Technique (short approach)
Weights are done 4-6 days a week depending on the time of year (see resistance training @ LSU thread), and multi jumps would probably be done on monday, wednesday, and friday.
posted on 6-27-2002 at 05:07 AM by mike
Coach Shaver’s stuff
I’m not too familiar with Coach Shaver’s training programs. Just from observation it looks like he uses a similar approach to Coach Seagrave. If I get a chance I’ll ask him.
As for intensive tempo stuff I definitely think it can be of value, especially for 400m+ runners. I think if for nothing more than familiarity with pain levels it can be of use. Also, I’ve read that with this type of training you can not only delay the onset of lactate production, but also become more efficient at removal, as well as more efficient at functioning under heavy lactate duress. Whether or not this is the major concern for sprinters is another issue. I think neural fatigue may be just as much of an issue with fatigue in sprinters as lactate production.
posted on 6-28-2002 at 06:04 AM by jacko
re Intensive tempo
I think my guys are pretty good in terms of neural fatigue but hit the brick wall big time when the lactate levels go up, More of a result of the direction of our previous work than anything else,I Like the idea of improving tolerance and clearance abilities in the one workout, think it lays a better foundation of endurance than lactate production type things with complete recovery, a colleage one told me a speed endurance program without an aerobic (Clearance) component is doomed to fail.
posted on 7-15-2002 at 02:50 AM by jacko
Mike, What sort of running workouts do the Multi’s people (you mentioned that they do a session earlier in the week for the 1500)
I also note that you said in you do Vmax on tues & thursdays but in an earlier post
have it listed for Fridays? is this just different phases?
posted on 7-15-2002 at 09:14 PM by mike
You’re right in assuming that what I was referring to is dependent on the phase we are in. If we’re doing short approach work for the day on our technical sessions then we wouldn’t typically do Vmax stuff on those days. If we do full approach work then we might finish with some sprint-float-sprint 90m repeats (2-3x) and then that would cover it for the week. Here are some possible models which might cover the whole season. A training week is typically 6 days long. You could put these 3 day planners together in various orders (including repeating the same thing you just did) to get an idea of what could be done. Saturday (day 6) is always a speed endurance day.
3. speed endurance
2. technical train
1. technical train
3. speed endurance
The arrangement might change due to travel, the given technique work for the day / week, or the goals of the particular phase….it’s very flexible but this should give you a good idea.
The running work the multis do changes throughout the course of the year also. Earlier in the season they might do an additional AM run on day 2 (and maybe 5) of the above cycle. Later in the season, they might drop that workout and add an additional workout on day 3. This would be special endurance interval type stuff. I hope this wasn’t too confusing or vague.
posted on 7-17-2002 at 10:50 PM by jacko
when do you start incorporating speed development (Vmax) work in the yearly plan?
Do you reduce the amount of squatting you do as the season progresses?
posted on 7-18-2002 at 09:06 PM
We’d incorporate Vmax stuff in Winter during the precomp phase. It would start just before indoor season begins. Our squatting routine does vary throughout the year, with it decreasing as we get into the thick of indoor season, then getting back into it during the start of outdoor season, and backing off towards the championship outdoor meets. This is the way we do it here at LSU but last year I had the team squatting pretty much all year round and had quite good success with it. I think if you’re paying close attention to the volume and intensities then there wouldn’t really be any reason you couldn’t do it. I believe the week of our conference meet last year I had the sprinters/jumpers/hurdlers doing some really low rep squats in the 85-90% range. It’s a good way to fire up the nervous system and maintain muscle tonus and strength. I believe some European coaches even do sub-max (90+%) squatting the day of a meet for the same reason (fire up the nervous system).
posted on 7-24-2002 at 04:25 AM by jacko
in the cycles preceding the introduction of Vmax work what takes its place, is there two acceleration days or are the tire pulls done on this day.
Also what would make up an acceleration session for jumpers, do they do any block work or is it all just stand starts.
PS Walter sure cost Edwards a few bars of gold.
posted on 7-24-2002 at 06:17 PM by mike
Tire pulls would be considered acceleration work and probably only done once a week.
A sprinter’s acceleration session wouldn’t necessarily require or even need blocks. It is important however that athletes use correct acceleration mechanics during acceleration work. This means that they need to start low and when they begin running you should see progressively increasing body angles (relative to the ground) and pushing mechnics (feet behind the athlete’s center of mass). I don’t see any major problem with using blocks for jumpers, especially early in the season. It may however introduce a new difficulty that is unnecessary to the event.
posted on 8-18-2002 at 07:33 AM by jacko
what is the make up of the unloading/Testing weeks, do you reduce the # of intensive days?.
posted on 8-19-2002 at 02:47 PM by mike
The intensity stays roughly the same but we’d typically take Wednesday and Saturdays completely off. By doing this, the athletes are training 4 days instead of 6.
posted on 9-18-2002 at 03:22 AM by jacko
Mike, in the three day planners you mentioned one combo was
3. Speed End
What would you do with the strength work in this senario.
Would it still go on day 1&3
WHat load or exercise variations would you make to allow for this.
posted on 9-18-2002 at 02:58 PM by mike
That scenario would typically be the second set of 3 days in the 6 day cycle (i.e- Thursday, Friday, Saturday). There wouldn’t be too much difference in the strength training. In this scenario, weight circuits and / or general strength circuits would be done on Day 1 and Day 3. Day 2 would be heavier lifting.
This may seem like quite a high training load but I take the following view of it: the neuromuscular demand on accleration work and speed endurance is low when compared to the Vmax day. Even though the acceleration work is high intensity, the speed of movement and demand for very high rate of force development is lower than the Vmax day.
Taking this view, we can rationalize this training plan from a recovery / microcycle periodization standpoint by looking at the neuromuscular (NM) demand of each day. I would say
day 1 would have a medium NM demand, day 2 would be high NM demand, and day 3 would be a low NM demand. As such, we can pair the lower NM demand days with lower NM demand strength work (general strength and weight circuits) and the higher NM demand day with the higher NM demand strength work (olympic lifting, squats, etc.).
I hope this helped. If I didn’t answer the question let me know.
posted on 9-19-2002 at 01:11 AM by jacko
Makes perfect sense, thanks
posted on 9-19-2002 at 06:08 AM by jacko
Mike, what type of interval workouts do you use to get the Decathletes ready for the 1500m
posted on 9-19-2002 at 02:56 PM by mike
The decathletes do various types of workouts. Here are some examples:
-25 x 100m @ race pace with 30s rest
-17 x 150m @ race pace with 50s rest
-A race model of 1000m, 800m, 600m with 4-5 minutes recovery
-intervals for time: 3′, 2′, 1:30′, 1′
posted on 9-19-2002 at 11:16 PM by jacko
Its basically what some Sprint systems use as extensive tempo work for recovery
(Obviously as they are working on Aerobic Qualities). I think some of these workouts may be of benefit to the general endurance of the sprinters (though I would do them on grass if possible).
What I like about the Multis coaches (Boo/Dan ect) is that they seem to have a better understanding of all bio-motor qualities and their integration.