Posted In: Strength & Conditioning
I do legs heavy Wednesday and not so heavy Saturday in the weightroom.
Should i do one mega session per week of plyos on saturday, or two lighter sessions,
if the latter is a better approach, should the two days be
sat. and wed. or sat. and mon.?
i usually dont like doing plyos the same day as heavy weights, but i didn't know if my cns would be too strained or something to do plyos monday, heavy weights wednesday, and light weights and plyos saturday, thanx for any help
Personally, I'd do two light days. A super light one on wednesday, and a bit heavier one on saturday. Saturday and Wednesday would be better, between saturday and monday you have one day of rest, and between wednesday and saturday you have two days of rest. Just take it easy if you're starting on plyos, if anything starts to hurt, I'd back off right away. I hope this is good advice, if Mike or d3 have a different opinion, I'd value theirs over mine.
thanx, ya i did plyos last year as well, our coach is big on them, its funny i didnt even think about the time between saturday and monday cause it was the end of a week, i think i will do a good session saturdays and a light session wednesday like u said
I've always found doing jumps and weights to have a complimentary training effect that is greater than the sum of the parts. With this in mind I'd recommend doing them on the same day even if it means you have to reduce the volume.
ELITETRACK Founder
which would u suggest i do first plyos or weights, and as an 800m runner should i do high rep plyos with high recoveries ?
I would do plyos first, becuse they are more related to the direct event you are doing than lifting is. If you're running and lifting and doing plyos, I'd take it easy at first. Low rep plyos with high recoveries. Then build up to it. But whats more important than anything is that you listen to your body. If it tells you to back off, back off.
ideally tho, when i get to a full fledged program after building up, should the plyos be high rep for the purpose of mimicking the 800m race, s.a.i.d. style
which would u suggest i do first plyos or weights, and as an 800m runner should i do high rep plyos with high recoveries ?
It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the plyos and weight training. If you're looking to strictly develop speed, power and elasticity (and leaving aerobic or power-endurance for more specific track related activities) then I'd suggest going plyos then weights and keeping the reps low on both.
ELITETRACK Founder
would the power and speed only approach benefit me more than a power endurance type workout with plyos, for the 800, the latter seems like it would benefit more
I'd suggest using plyos and weights for speed and power development…..using them for power endurance is akin to using 400m repeats for speed development….they can serve the purpose but that's not what they're best for.
ELITETRACK Founder
nice, makes perfect sense, kind of like the worst of both worlds, bad power endurance session and a bad speed and power development session, thanx alot
I don't think mike is saying its bad for you, you are just confusing the purpose of each. Power endurance work is good for an 800m runner, but not if you are trying to increase max velocity (get faster). Try boudning 200m on the track, tell me what distance that feels like racing. Are 400m repeats bad for the 800m runner? No. They aren't speedwork as disscussion on this board goes, in distance coach/runner cirlces they truly shouldn't even be considered speedwork,but pacing, because 400m+ intervals are about pace, they fall into power-endurance category as well, anything working about 15s to 100s (120m to 600m) is special endurance work. In fact special endurance work to me is really power endurance which is a product of speed-endurance and strength-endurance, the less strength-endurance usually means the less power endurance or special endurance, meaning strength work is critical and should be considered before power endurance work to maximize strength and strength endurance. If you increase your maximum strength you'll find you can increase your submaximal work volumes doing high volume medium intensity plyos for instance. Unless you are using the plyos as part of a general strength routine or a circuit, you should not think about making them event specific work until mid to late season to give some variation to those 200,300,400,500 or 600 meter repeat days. One thing I do is split my plyo sessions on strength day in the weight room we do speed/quickness drills (quick foot contacts med-low intensity at med-high volumes), on the power day we do height/distance (med-high intensity @ lower volumes) drills, the key is rest between sets and reps. If we skip for 20-30m we rest about 3-4 minutes before the next interval of skipping, if we jump to a height we rest 30-60s. Sometimes I shorten the rest to test them for adaptation. I have to agree with Mike plyos and wieghts go hand in hand and I work them the same day, I like to complex them to (follow a lift with a plyo drill or vice versa)
You also need to remember that the 800m race is the ultimate paradox. It requires significant aerobic metabolism and power capabilities, borderline on being great in 1 mile-5K races and it requires sufficient speed that your speed needs to be good enough to being borderline great in 200-400m at the level you want to compete. I am being kind of loose with the use of 200m and 5k distances, but at the lower levels of competition youth and high school there is not much difference between great 800m runners being good at both those distances. Training the extreme ends of both speed and endurance is critical, ie max V and LSD.
i didn't mean it was necessarily bad for me, just that it was "bad" as in a less than optimal session for both power endurance and power/speed, not as good for the latter as higher intensity plyos at a lower volume, and not as good for the former as a track workout. i think the distance "community" makes u think u don't need a straight power workout for the 800m, but as you said the race goes to both extremes, thanks for the reply, i learn alot every time one of u guys posts
When training 800m runners, I like to get hard mileage in first, then go directly to speed/power and then work on special endurance II and speed endurance, some like to work both ends towards the middle. I know others to the detriment of their runners go strictly long too short and they usually over race their kids. Mike, I, and others don't always agree, but I am glad you feel like your learning something. I am big stickler for general fitness no matter what race you compete, because to be a champion means you don't have time in season to worry about fitness levels.
I usually end up racing my 800m runners in 200's and 400s early on in my high school season. I try to stay away from the 800-1600 trap although I may stay away too much, but I'd rather find that 800m runner who is willing to go out run the 3200m and come back and do the 400m and 4×4 as well in early season meets.
Every workout should have 1 purpose and all the training units should be built around that purpose. That workout should fit into the microcycle, that microcycle should fit the mesocycle, and so on. Your speed/power mesocycle should have some endurance qualities to it, both aerobic and muscular, but that should be nothing like your base or general prep work. That said your GPP and SPP should both have some sort of max V and accel work in it.