I have heard so many different oppinions on this topic i dont know what to believe. Ive heard things from you longest stride is you last to the its the shortest. Ive also heard your 3rd to last step is the penultimate and thats the longest. frankly i dont know what to believe. can somone specify variations between different steps?
Penultimate step!?
-
-
Participant
-
ParticipantWhat a surprise i disagree…
The penultimate sets up the take off and when done properly can make an average take off a good one and a good one a great one…
There is a clear difference between normal running over the penultimate and using it to its potential..
-
Participant
i think i agree with nick… being aware of it would atleast help. im not saying im going to use it. i just need to know the difference between them in case i want to utilize it. ive heard it varies from horizontal verses vertical type jumps
-
Participant
I agree with Nick. My first two years I didn’t teach it because I was told it was natural to kids and they either had it or didnt. Then I started teaching it and things have been much better since.
Penultimate is the second to last step. You should be pushing up for flight time right before penultimate step. If you are a right footed jumper then when your left hits you should give a little bit in your ankle, knee, and hip and continue to move forward and downward when your left hits. Make sure your hips don’t travel upwards until your right foot hits and you are on top of that foot. Hope that helps a little.
-
Participant
What a surprise i disagree…
The penultimate sets up the take off and when done properly can make an average take off a good one and a good one a great one…
There is a clear difference between normal running over the penultimate and using it to its potential..
How much did working on the penultimate improve your LJ PR?
-
Participant
what about the distances when it comes to the penultimate vs. ultimate. because i watched the brandon roulac triple jump video probably 10 times atleast and he has the longest step obviously his last step. you can watch it on youtube towards the end in slow motion its a good clip
-
ParticipantSome kids (HS and early college) will do it because they are good athletes. Some don’t and they just run off the runway and don’t jump as far. It’s not easy as people think as simple events are deceptive. I like to have kids do layups from afar for the LJ and dunk on a low rim for HS. Girls coming from BB are more likely to have those skills. It’s not easy and usually it’s a case by case basis.
-
Participant
I personally dont coach long to short or short to long step. I coach shin angles. When it comes to the penultimate I want to see the foot strike perpendicular to the ground. For the ultimate the athlete needs to find the sweet spot for him/her. Some do better with a slight obtuse angle and some do well with being perpendicular at foot plant. Just remember that there is always a trade off. The more your foot is out in front the more speed you lose. Find the place that works for you. I personally think if you are thinking big to small or whatever you will probably slow down too much. Just my .02.
-
Participant
well i used to play basketball and dunking is one of my hobbies so i kind of have a natural penultimate but it varies day to day. the farther i jump away from the rim with my speed the higher i get which leads to better dunks. idk angles or whatever with my shins other than the formula for power. which i think the Distance variable changes as the angles do.
-
Participant
It makes a difference. BUT— on good jumps it happens naturally (my 5 year old has way better penultimate rhythm than I do). The key is messing around with variants until you start hitting good ones and then replicating whatever you felt.
-
Participant
Some kids (HS and early college) will do it because they are good athletes. Some don’t and they just run off the runway and don’t jump as far. It’s not easy as people think as simple events are deceptive. I like to have kids do layups from afar for the LJ and dunk on a low rim for HS. Girls coming from BB are more likely to have those skills. It’s not easy and usually it’s a case by case basis.
That sounds like a really cool and simple idea.
-
Participant
EDIT:Dunk for HJ….not for HS.
-
Participant
Carl makes some good suggestions with the basketball.
IMO, guys will typically have some sort of penult. ingrained because of basketball, girls will typically have to be taught. So with the boys the focus was on dialing down the wind-up before the bang. With women ramps work well because it helps create the feel of lift and extends the last stride in front for those that will ‘run’ off the board.
Being creative will help far more than just explanation. Trickery remains the best way as they will stay as bewildered as ever coming into the board and then go big.
-
Participant
It improved mine a lot…in never did it, then did it and got to where i’m at now…so from 21′ – 25’6…
then i played around with not doing it recently and got hurt…didn’t feel right though. Felt ok for sure, but i wasn’t comfortable 100%…
Example, Pedroso also had a very active penultimate…but it’s very fast deceptive…
-
Participant
nick how did you work on your penultimate step?
-
Participant
There are drills such as,
123 drill where you repeat the final 3 strides in rhythm over and over again…
A very good plyometric exercise is, drop from a box onto the penultimate then go straight into take off into the pit…
And then during part practice session when jumping from short runs, focus on that step.
Most important of all is of course full approach practice and then full jumps…
A jumper will slow down to steer, its unavoidable…but during the final 2 strides you would hope all steering is complete…then you need to be in attack mode to battle against speed loss and to generate enough force in order to jump far. The final 2 need to be aggresive and are different from normal running.
It is of course very common to overdo the penultimate (lower too much and step to the side) but, like with sprinting there is an optimal way to do it. By teaching someone to simply run through the penultimate and take off is like saying, i’m teaching you the non optimal way.
Getting it right takes great timing and precision. It’s easy to lower too much or lower too early or twist your body too much or step to the side etc etc etc…but the best way to do it takes practice practice practice…
The best example of someone running through the penultimate is Mokoena. He is pretty much the only one who does it like that. He also has many other physical gifts working for him that others don’t have. Doesn’t at all mean his way is the best way. Just like Felix, williams etc…
-
Participant
We have a drill called “Penultimate Strides” that might apply here.
If you have a partner that can match your stride at runway speed, I like to have guys run ~60m strides, starting at 80-85%, together in unison. After a few reps to feel out each other’s rhythm, I have one of them engage in their penultimate and simply run through it, repeating 3-5 times in the 60m (whatever feels comfortable.) The other athlete (who is simply running) serves as a control, so the athlete doing the repeat penultimates can get visual feedback on how much they are slowing down. I encourage them to do this at faster and faster speeds, as long as stride rhythm in unison can be continued. We’ll take them to the runway then and see what we get. By the end of the season, we often have film of actual PR jumps that looks a lot like film of the drill (which we have long stopped using at that point.)
It’s not a perfect drill and it’s certainly not the only one we use, but it teaches you to run through your penultimate rather than stomp on the brakes. It allows kids to experiment with foot strike and stride length of penultimate/ultimate, and depth of drop because of the high number of reps compared to doing one at a time. Ironically, the best guy I ever had never did this at all. He had an awesome natural penultimate and was very technically sound. I figured, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I have all kinds of kids for whom this drill doesn’t do the trick for whatever reason, but for kids who are conscious of their penultimate (or need to be) it works well.
-
Viewing 18 reply threads
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.