I want to start incorporating plyos into the sprinters workouts and had a question about how beneficial plyos are for those who are primarily 400 runners? Hurdle hops, box jumps, depth jumps, and bounding are the primary plyos I do with the jumpers. My main question is should the 400 guys do a lighter plyo load than the 100/200 guys?
Plyos for Sprinters
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Participant
if you havent been doing plyos, DONT ADD THEM IN NOW!!
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Participant
if you havent been doing plyos, DONT ADD THEM IN NOW!!
Do you say this because there is a risk of injury starting them at this point in the season or because you don’t feel starting now would benefit the rest of the season. We have about a month until league championships and state is the last weekend of May.
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Participant
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1240010619"]if you havent been doing plyos, DONT ADD THEM IN NOW!!
Do you say this because there is a risk of injury starting them at this point in the season or because you don’t feel starting now would benefit the rest of the season. We have about a month until league championships and state is the last weekend of May.[/quote]
Not so much a injury thing but more so stiffness etc. If you must add plyos I would keep the contacts around 10-20x and very simple jumps (box jumps onto box/step off, slj, hurdle hops).
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Participant
[quote author="townguy" date="1240011883"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1240010619"]if you havent been doing plyos, DONT ADD THEM IN NOW!!
Do you say this because there is a risk of injury starting them at this point in the season or because you don’t feel starting now would benefit the rest of the season. We have about a month until league championships and state is the last weekend of May.[/quote]
Not so much a injury thing but more so stiffness etc. If you must add plyos I would keep the contacts around 10-20x and very simple jumps (box jumps onto box/step off, slj, hurdle hops).[/quote]
The main thing I wanted them to do was some hurdle hops. I’ve got some good 400 guys who are very strong endurance based runners but they lack quickness. I thought this might help them with that aspect.
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Participant
I think you should consider using skips and hops. These allow more contacts and are a way to make general type training like circuits more specific.
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Participant
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1240012724"][quote author="townguy" date="1240011883"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1240010619"]if you havent been doing plyos, DONT ADD THEM IN NOW!!
Do you say this because there is a risk of injury starting them at this point in the season or because you don’t feel starting now would benefit the rest of the season. We have about a month until league championships and state is the last weekend of May.[/quote]
Not so much a injury thing but more so stiffness etc. If you must add plyos I would keep the contacts around 10-20x and very simple jumps (box jumps onto box/step off, slj, hurdle hops).[/quote]
The main thing I wanted them to do was some hurdle hops. I’ve got some good 400 guys who are very strong endurance based runners but they lack quickness. I thought this might help them with that aspect.[/quote]
Like I said 10-20 contacts should be ok. What type of prep work have you done to prepare them for plyos bc you only have 4 weeks and it takes 10-14 days for the stim to kick in.
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Participant
For my 400m runners . . .
On acc/max v days we do something to the effect of 9-15 contacts of High Intensity plyo’s. 3 x 3 hurdle hops or 5 x 3 hurdle hops.
On tempo days, we usually follow it with a low intensity jumps circuit on the grass. Probably around 8-10 exercises with around 20 contacts per exercise. Things like lunge jumps, butt kick jumps, speed skaters, 180’s, etc. It could even be a couple of sets of jumping rope on grass.
On special I, special II or speed endurance days, I lay off the plyo’s for the most part. The track work usually provides enough stimulus for the day.
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Participant
I’m wondering how much carry over there is between plyos and 400m speed. My understanding is that the correlation between plyos and speed is very limited (with the possible exception of bounding) and would in fact probably only impact early acceleration. My first question would be, do your sprinters come out of the blocks at 100% for the first 30m? My understanding is that would be the primary benefit from plyos.
If your runners already have adequate endurance in place, perhaps more MaxV work such as flying sprints and in-and-outs would do more for their top speed and speed endurance than plyos.
Just wondering…
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Participant
I’m wondering how much carry over there is between plyos and 400m speed. My understanding is that the correlation between plyos and speed is very limited (with the possible exception of bounding) and would in fact probably only impact early acceleration. My first question would be, do your sprinters come out of the blocks at 100% for the first 30m? My understanding is that would be the primary benefit from plyos.
If your runners already have adequate endurance in place, perhaps more MaxV work such as flying sprints and in-and-outs would do more for their top speed and speed endurance than plyos.
Just wondering…
They come out of the blocks at close to 100% as I tell them to run the first 100 hard. My ideas on plyos would this would be in addition to MaxV work. This is what I do with the jumpers.
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Participant
I’m wondering how much carry over there is between plyos and 400m speed. My understanding is that the correlation between plyos and speed is very limited (with the possible exception of bounding) and would in fact probably only impact early acceleration. My first question would be, do your sprinters come out of the blocks at 100% for the first 30m? My understanding is that would be the primary benefit from plyos.
If your runners already have adequate endurance in place, perhaps more MaxV work such as flying sprints and in-and-outs would do more for their top speed and speed endurance than plyos.
Just wondering…
I always thought that vertical jumps were more targetted towards MaxV than acceleration ?
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Participant
[quote author="star61" date="1240014431"]I’m wondering how much carry over there is between plyos and 400m speed. My understanding is that the correlation between plyos and speed is very limited (with the possible exception of bounding) and would in fact probably only impact early acceleration. My first question would be, do your sprinters come out of the blocks at 100% for the first 30m? My understanding is that would be the primary benefit from plyos.
If your runners already have adequate endurance in place, perhaps more MaxV work such as flying sprints and in-and-outs would do more for their top speed and speed endurance than plyos.
Just wondering…
I always thought that vertical jumps were more targetted towards MaxV than acceleration ?[/quote]
Not sure if I’m helping the discussion or hindering (or supporting friends of mine that did the research). Plyometrics may have far better carry over at sub-maximal speeds.
https://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2001/acsms/papers/SPUR.pdf -
Participant
I always thought that vertical jumps were more targetted towards MaxV than acceleration ?
My understanding is that most of the training focused on explosive strength (heavy squatting, Olys, DE squats, jumps, plyos) really only impact the early phase of acceleration…start to 30m or so. There is carryover in top speed, but it is the indirect result of the better acceleration. In other words, Max V is not greatly impacted by explosive strength training. The one exception seems to be bounding, which may have some effect on Max V.
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Participant
[quote author="trackspeedboy (Khash Farzam)" date="1240035573"]
I always thought that vertical jumps were more targetted towards MaxV than acceleration ?
My understanding is that most of the training focused on explosive strength (heavy squatting, Olys, DE squats, jumps, plyos) really only impact the early phase of acceleration…start to 30m or so. There is carryover in top speed, but it is the indirect result of the better acceleration. In other words, Max V is not greatly impacted by explosive strength training. The one exception seems to be bounding, which may have some effect on Max V.[/quote]
Isnt ground contact times too high while bounding?
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Participant
[quote author="star61" date="1240043471"][quote author="trackspeedboy (Khash Farzam)" date="1240035573"]
I always thought that vertical jumps were more targetted towards MaxV than acceleration ?
My understanding is that most of the training focused on explosive strength (heavy squatting, Olys, DE squats, jumps, plyos) really only impact the early phase of acceleration…start to 30m or so. There is carryover in top speed, but it is the indirect result of the better acceleration. In other words, Max V is not greatly impacted by explosive strength training. The one exception seems to be bounding, which may have some effect on Max V.[/quote]
Isnt ground contact times too high while bounding?[/quote]I’m not really refering to the specificity of the movement, but the correlation between certain training modalities and improvements in acceleration and top speed. Improvements in limit strength, olympic lifts, sled dragging, hill running, stadium running and plyos have all been shown to correlate to (at least to some degree) improvements in explosive strength, vertical jump and acceleration. The correlation to top speed is not as clear however, but apparently bounding has shown (I can’t put my hands on the study(s) at the moment) to correlate soemwhat to improvements in top speed.
Not meaning to take the thread off topic, but I gathered that the OP indicated that endurance is in place and improvements in top speed is needed. Keep in we’re talking about the 400m. If speed is what he’s looking for, I think additional Max V work along with skipping and bounding may better serve that goal, rather than hops, jumps and landings, regardless of the intensity. If it is in fact improved performance in the first 30-50m, then acceleration work, including plyos, would help, keeping in consideration the thoughts expressed by others earlier in this thread.
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Participant
are plyos really any benefit to sprinters (except for bad weather etc) the GCT are longer than sprinting…..some plyos for warming up but if a sprinter was doing no plyos just speed work and then incoroporated plyos would he improve his times ….any sprinters use many plyos ..
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Participant
are plyos really any benefit to sprinters (except for bad weather etc) the GCT are longer than sprinting…..some plyos for warming up but if a sprinter was doing no plyos just speed work and then incoroporated plyos would he improve his times ….any sprinters use many plyos ..
GCT is longer: 20% longer for maximal bounding, 100% longer for maximal hopping. Resultant forces (braking and propulsive) are nearly 80% greater for maximal hopping.
Less than maximal (call it optimal) hopping may be what’s best overall. If someone has a force platform they can verify that for us. Let’s say try 70% maximum distance or shortest time to cover 5- or 10-m. 😉
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ParticipantHere is video that backs up what Jeremy is saying pretty much. Note, on the double leg hops his ground contact is totally flat footed.
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Participant
This opens up another can of worms. When you’re talking specificity, is it really ground contact time that you’re trying to replicate, or the forces and reflexes that produce short ground contact during sprinting? Just because the GCT is the same doesn’t mean the two actions share much else. It’s the force, and the ability to produce it over very short periods of time, that you’re after. The short GCT in elite sprinters is an artifact, a byproduct, of their ability to produce large amounts of force in a very, very short time. Replicating GCT only replicates GCT, and does not necessarily train the body to produce greater forces in shorter periods of time, IMHO. As an example, I can tap my foot with much shorter GCT than I can run, but it would obviously do absolutely nothing to improve sprinting.
For specificity, you need to first replicate the muscle and joint action through a similar range of motion using maximal forces, and then try to reduce the time required to generate those forces…again just my humble opinion.
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Participant
Yeah i agree…i just wrote a long paper on coupling times and force production.
The larger the max force someone can generate, the more force they can generate when coupling time is reduced. This force probably will still not be enough to be an elite sprinter or jumper but a lot of that isn’t down to how they train.
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Participant
Yeah i agree…i just wrote a long paper on coupling times and force production.
The larger the max force someone can generate, the more force they can generate when coupling time is reduced. This force probably will still not be enough to be an elite sprinter or jumper but a lot of that isn’t down to how they train.
Can you post or email me a copy? I would truly be interested in reading it.
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