[Isaiah Miller]

Isaiah Miller on February 17, 2011 at 4:26 am #17283

What do you guys think about the pose method?…comments? http://www.posetech.com/training/archives/000455.html

[Rune Brix]

Rune Brix on February 18, 2011 at 12:00 am #105562

The practical and bio-mechanical model doesn’t hold up.

Improvements in distance running from teaching people the pose method are related to improvements in running economy. The changes in the running biomechanics are for most people:
– increased stride rate
– decrease stride length
– forefoot landing.
These changes are proposed in the bio mechanical theory of pose running and hold up fine. The bio mechanical model of pose running propose a change in the angel of the body in the sagitale plan which is not true and in theory those not follow the laws of physics

Their is some evidence (in contrast to clear evidence) that forefoot landing improves running economy in long distance running. In contradiction to this their is also some evidence that changing striding pattern worsens running economy.

Marketing wise the pose method is a scam which sells well because people a charmed by the simple (but falls) logics of the method. In relation to teaching the model their are some ethical issues because of the increased incidence of metatarsal stress fractures and achilles and fascia plantaris pain from forefoot running in relation to distance running.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 9, 2011 at 1:55 am #106174

Worthless for sprinting. Actually counter to what you want to do.

It can work to help recreational non-runners become more efficient at longer distance running but beyond that I think it’s use is quite limited and the science used is bastardized biomechanics.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Rune Brix]

Rune Brix on March 9, 2011 at 7:35 am #106187

Hi mike. Thank you for commenting. Do you agree on the following sentence?

“he bio mechanical model of pose running propose a change in the angel of the body in the sagitale plan which is not true and in theory those not follow the laws of physics”

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on March 9, 2011 at 8:11 am #106188

Hi mike. Thank you for commenting. Do you agree on the following sentence?

“he bio mechanical model of pose running propose a change in the angel of the body in the sagitale plan which is not true and in theory those not follow the laws of physics”

Yes that’s one of the couple violations of physics that are proposed by Pose.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mccabe]

Mccabe on March 9, 2011 at 10:00 am #106193

Is this Pose thing popular in the USA?

[Tim Huntley]

Tim Huntley on February 4, 2012 at 6:23 am #114541

I decided to explore this topic further, so I sent a few questions to Dr. Romanov (the founder of the Pose Method) and also the founder of CrossFit Endurance, Brian MacKenzie. I included their responses in the following post:

https://myathleticlife.com/2012/02/pose-running-sprinting/

Thanks to Mike Young for allowing me to use a quote from this thread in the post!

[oshikake@ymail.com]

oshikake@ymail.com on February 4, 2012 at 4:25 pm #114552

.

[Rune Brix]

Rune Brix on February 5, 2012 at 1:31 am #114559

Its important to distinguish between what we are discussing:

1. Motor Learning. How do we best teaches sprinting.
2. Biomechancs. What is actually happening

If Romanov teaches pose running to some dude and produces an effect (faster 100m running or 5000m). What happened is a product of a teaching metode that changes the persons movement. But teaching a specific way those not mean that that person changes according to your assumption of what is going on. Teaching someone to fly those not eliminate gravity. I can tell an athlete to push or pull more, but it does not change the amount of vertical force i need to apply to keep MaxV.

Make sure that everytime we discus biomechanics, that teaching is something else. We que place your foot directlty under you, as this mental picture, (might) creates an appopriate change in movement. When teaching squat i tell athletes all the time to hyperlordose more, what actaully happens is that the lumbal spine stops being flexed and aligns. The que is relatede to the athletes, feeling (proception) of putting the spine in hyperlordosis, but something else is happening.

Pose running

Pose running uses some specifik ques of placing the foot directly under you and talks about it as if its actually happening. It doesnt. Elite sprinter do not place their foot directly under their center of mass, in MaxV (severeal biomechanical analysis of sprinting proves this), neither those any person taught the pose running metode. Ask Ramonov for a video of an athlete doing this. He needs to start proving his statements.

If pose running “works” for distance runners it has a lot to do with the changes from heel striking to forefoot landing. Thats my opionin, as their is some evidence that forefoot landing improves performance. But this is not evidence of the theoretical model, but the teaching model. And just to be clear, Ramonov (or anyone else) has not proven that his teaching metode improves performance.

Romanovs evidence.
Romanov tries on his site to prove that his model works. The video on his site is not science, or evidence. We see no actual data or biomechanical analyse of the before and after effect of Romanovs teaching.
Also theirs is alot of statements in the video which are manipulativ in natur. I will give an example. In the video, they watch a still picture of 2 people running, these are compared in relation to the placement of the foot at landing in relation to the center of mass. The person taught to run “pose” is at midstance and the person running normaly is at landing face. Thats manipulation not evidence.

Summary
A person who is taught pose, is not necessarily running pose. If we say he is running pose we are saying that the biomechanical analyse of the person running is precisely as the theoretical model Ramonov is stating. At least we know from science that sprinters are not pose running, as they land in front of the center of mass. Seems like Brian is implying that sprinters actually run pose. If they did not land in front of their center of mass the would fall on their nose because each flight fase creates a rotational force around the center of mass.

Would you buy a supplement from someone if their was no evidence to backup the claims. Romanov is making money from claims that are not proven.

These claims are 3 folded:

1. That you can actually run pose. Mike and me (and alot of other people) are claiming that you cant, because it defies newtons law.

2. That the teaching model improves performance

3. That pose running, done precisely as Ramonov stats improves performance

[Rune Brix]

Rune Brix on February 10, 2012 at 11:44 am #114681

https://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/10/pose-running-reduces-running-economythe.html

Interesting 12 weeks study:

But the far right panel is most interesting. It shows that the oxygen cost of running was HIGHER after Pose Training – the running economy was thus reduced. What is the big deal with running economy? Well, it’s one of the variables that often gets cited as being critical for running success. Generally, the best runners have the highest running economy (that is, lowest Oxygen cost of running at a given speed) – that’s a gross oversimplification, but basically, the running economy is a measure of how effectively the athlete is able to use oxygen during running. Training improves running economy quite substantially, and all other things being equal (which of course, they never are!), running economy is one of the keys to success.