[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on September 25, 2012 at 3:40 am #18548

The power clean is such an effective lift for a variety of sports and events. However, often the power clean can become stale if done too long in the same way. I have decided to include a number of variations of the power clean in hopes to add to your coaching tool kit as a coach. The athlete should master first simple lifts then move to the more neurological demanding complex lifts. Clean- Lift s

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"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on September 25, 2012 at 8:58 am #118011

Split squat cleans; start with one leg in front of the other similar to that in the starting blocks or standing start position.

Split squat step cleans; not necessarily one leg in front of the pther but one leg on a step which is more similar to the position in the starting blocks or a standing start.

[Meysam Razi]

Meysam Razi on September 27, 2012 at 6:39 am #118025

Further options include lifts such as drop cleans and drop snatches which would be used to condition the athlete for the impact of ground contact during sprinting and/or improve the speed of the recovery leg during the sprinting stride.

[JasonRoeWI]

JasonRoeWI on September 27, 2012 at 11:52 pm #118034

Ryan,
I would be interested to hear why you would select each particular variation. What weakness or physical/physiological deficiency does each address. While psychological training staleness/boredom should be considered many coaches just use variety in exercise selection for the sake of variety without any consideration for the adaptations that a change in an exercise variable results in (I am not accusing you of this, I am just saying that it happens).

And I have never programmed a diagonal or rotational power clean, and I don’t know what loads you use, but using a barbell for these lifts do you think the risks outweigh the potential rewards?

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on September 28, 2012 at 12:39 am #118035

Ryan,
I would be interested to hear why you would select each particular variation. What weakness or physical/physiological deficiency does each address. While psychological training staleness/boredom should be considered many coaches just use variety in exercise selection for the sake of variety without any consideration for the adaptations that a change in an exercise variable results in (I am not accusing you of this, I am just saying that it happens).

And I have never programmed a diagonal or rotational power clean, and I don’t know what loads you use, but using a barbell for these lifts do you think the risks outweigh the potential rewards?

No problem! Specificlly when an athlete beings to hit the wall I often will put in a diagonal power clean for the simple reason muscles criss-cross, wrap around the body, up and down, back and forth. Often when moving the hips over it calls upon more overflow for the movement allowing for the normal power clean numbers to rise again when you go back to a new phase with a regular power clean. A rotational power clean is often used by linemen as we work on delivering power into their kick step. I hope you find this useful and these two lifts have worked nicely in our program. I use these frequently in terms of load. I often reduce the load as I do with any phase allowing for the athlete to learn the new lift and then as we progress through the phase we increase intensity.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Matt Norquist]

Matt Norquist on September 29, 2012 at 11:38 am #118045

That amount of complexity seems wildly unnecessary, especially since most athletes who don’t do OLs as their primary sport never really master (and thus never get the most out of) even the simple variations.

I think when teaching the movement, the hang position is best way to learn. Then throughout season, simply progress the exercise from most resistance (Full clean) to slightly lighter weights (power clean) to lighter still (clean and jerk) to lighter yet (snatch) – is as complicated as I’d get. Frankly, there’s no reason it should get stale, and as it is an assistance exercise to our primary exercise of running, no need to do all sorts of variants.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on September 29, 2012 at 1:15 pm #118049

That amount of complexity seems wildly unnecessary, especially since most athletes who don’t do OLs as their primary sport never really master (and thus never get the most out of) even the simple variations.

I think when teaching the movement, the hang position is best way to learn. Then throughout season, simply progress the exercise from most resistance (Full clean) to slightly lighter weights (power clean) to lighter still (clean and jerk) to lighter yet (snatch) – is as complicated as I’d get. Frankly, there’s no reason it should get stale, and as it is an assistance exercise to our primary exercise of running, no need to do all sorts of variants.

Respectfully I will disagree. If people don’t think creatively then you will be getting the same results as most. Per the two previously mentioned examples one lift was developed by a coach who brought an athlete to a silver medal in 08 the other lift has been used by many people in a number of different areas. As for the power clean its a great lift. However, if you are looking for an edge creatively you must push the limits. Some things might not be worth the risk. But, when you have an athlete you have been training for 5 plus years options are useful to keep you athltes getting better. Ultimately, this types of variations are not to be used by someone starting to lift for the first time. Results should be your guide and that is why I know these variations are useful as many athletes benefited.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Matt Norquist]

Matt Norquist on September 29, 2012 at 3:05 pm #118050

[quote author="Matt Norquist (WashedupDec)" date="1348898949"]That amount of complexity seems wildly unnecessary, especially since most athletes who don’t do OLs as their primary sport never really master (and thus never get the most out of) even the simple variations.

I think when teaching the movement, the hang position is best way to learn. Then throughout season, simply progress the exercise from most resistance (Full clean) to slightly lighter weights (power clean) to lighter still (clean and jerk) to lighter yet (snatch) – is as complicated as I’d get. Frankly, there’s no reason it should get stale, and as it is an assistance exercise to our primary exercise of running, no need to do all sorts of variants.

Respectfully I will disagree. If people don’t think creatively then you will be getting the same results as most. Per the two previously mentioned examples one lift was developed by a coach who brought an athlete to a silver medal in 08 the other lift has been used by many people in a number of different areas. As for the power clean its a great lift. However, if you are looking for an edge creatively you must push the limits. Some things might not be worth the risk. But, when you have an athlete you have been training for 5 plus years options are useful to keep you athltes getting better. Ultimately, this types of variations are not to be used by someone starting to lift for the first time. Results should be your guide and that is why I know these variations are useful as many athletes benefited.[/quote]

What do you disagree with? Bc a medalist did it is not good reason to do twisting or jumping cleans. I know medalists who stopped squatting after age 24. Doesn’t make it a smart approach. I didn’t say I think variety is bad and what I posed is variety – but I almost thought the initial post was meant as a joke. Innovation is great – and we need to start introducing massive creativity until basics are mastered and until someone is cleanining double bw – or at least 1.5x – basics have a ways to go.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on September 29, 2012 at 5:00 pm #118052

The benefits of the Olympic lift are contentious with regards to sprinting. If one is doing them for athletic performance, short of the front men in American football they aren’t worth the time and risk of injury investment; even then the hang clean or power snatch might be all that is relevant. If doing them just for fun yes go ahead.

Olympic lifts take longer to complete compared to just squats and tax other things than the legs and hips. As you fatigue they bring into question the risk of injury to one’s back. One is better off just doing the squat movement of the Olympic lift otherwise known as a J-motion squat and even then this will have greater transfer when performed single leg.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on September 29, 2012 at 6:07 pm #118054

Ultimately. These are ideas you can choose to use or not. These are not jokes. As stated before the body does not work in a quick and simple fasion. Obviously, if you are not in the gym in the winter or summer to see the growth and development its hard for others to understand. I want to make it abundantly clear these are not done by athletes until the have mastered more simple movements. In the end like my friend Sean Burris always says “you do what you do and I will do what I do and will see how things turn out.” Thanks for the spirited dscussion.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[JasonRoeWI]

JasonRoeWI on September 30, 2012 at 1:33 am #118057

I am sorry, but with all professional respect you can’t justify a diagonal power clean or “power clean like clockwork” to me. You are just begging for an injury. If the desired adaptation is the development of power in multiple planes of motion or in a rotary pattern then work with elastic or cable resistance or throw medicine balls.

I couldn’t justify a clean variant with a jump to a box either. Olympic lifts are very safe if properly instructed and supervised, but there is always a risk in catching a load, and now on top of that you want the athlete to catch a load and jump to a box? Can they even use an appreciable load on that lift? Can they focus on getting extension while their attention is split by the need to clear and safely land on the box? Wouldn’t you get similar adaptations out of a loaded jump squat (jump from the ground, land on the ground) or performing a jump to a box loaded with a weight vest or dumbbells. Similar adaptation (probably greater adaptation), much less risk.

You select exercises based on the expected adaption in relation the athlete’s ability and state of fitness, not because they are different or look challenging.

[burkhalter]

burkhalter on September 30, 2012 at 4:46 am #118058

If you want to work diagonally just use single arm db snatches ala Dan Pfaff. Start from opposite foot.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on September 30, 2012 at 5:42 am #118060

I am sorry, but with all professional respect you can’t justify a diagonal power clean or “power clean like clockwork” to me. You are just begging for an injury. If the desired adaptation is the development of power in multiple planes of motion or in a rotary pattern then work with elastic or cable resistance or throw medicine balls.

I couldn’t justify a clean variant with a jump to a box either. Olympic lifts are very safe if properly instructed and supervised, but there is always a risk in catching a load, and now on top of that you want the athlete to catch a load and jump to a box? Can they even use an appreciable load on that lift? Can they focus on getting extension while their attention is split by the need to clear and safely land on the box? Wouldn’t you get similar adaptations out of a loaded jump squat (jump from the ground, land on the ground) or performing a jump to a box loaded with a weight vest or dumbbells. Similar adaptation (probably greater adaptation), much less risk.

You select exercises based on the expected adaption in relation the athlete’s ability and state of fitness, not because they are different or look challenging.

We do those lifts also and so do many other people. My goal is to push your creativity. These lifts are done with a trained adult. When you talk about a load and what is appropriate I want you to remind everyone different athletes need different things to create a training effect. These discussions are meant to create conversation. I figured I would share knowing that some of the readers would respond in this way. I would like to make a final note that a previous blog I wrote about our lack of injuries. I am not saying everyone will get the same results as “its the cook not the recipie.” Have a great weekend guys. 🙂

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[star61]

star61 on September 30, 2012 at 7:07 am #118063

I was planning on letting this thread pass because I hate always being the Negative Nancy, but I will add my voice to those who frown on exercises such as jumping on or off a box with a loaded barbell. Drop jumps and box jumps have enough risk as it is, but doing them with a loaded barball is not smart, IMHO. I like box jumps with a weighted vest, but posture is easier to control, the hands are free, and in case of catastrophic failure, there’s no barbell flying around the gym. Too much can go wrong.

[Mccabe]

Mccabe on September 30, 2012 at 7:18 am #118064

Can we see a video of the power clean like clock work?

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on September 30, 2012 at 1:00 pm #118065

Can we see a video of the power clean like clock work?

I have a youtube page with some of these lifts. Frans bosh also has book called running where some of these lifts are also highlighted. At this current time I do not have video of these lifts. However, when we get to winter training I will post some athletes doing these lifts i currently don’t have on film

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein