Posted In: Strength & Conditioning
I know it is quite common for some people to do power cleans and split their legs to the sides instead of going down.
Does anyone think this could damage your ankles? I tried a max last week and felt a little niggle. A few days later i did some take off drills and my ankle twisted very badly on take off and i have torn multiple ligaments.
Because ive never had a problem with this before i dont know what to think, and so many guys lift like this who aren’t specialist Oly lifters.
Guess it would help to show a vid. The right foot was the problem ankle, and i noticed that goes out further than the other. Still, would this strengthen or damage them? I tried heavier and it wasnt pretty.
Joe,
I don’t think there are any issues with going wide, especially if you don’t drop down deeply into a front squat, but I might be concerned about your posture at catch. Your knees should be more over your toes, and your weight should be more evenly distributed on the balls of your feet. Think of catching with your feet not quite so wide wide, knees over your toes with shins nearly vertical and toes pointed out at about 30-40 degrees. You don’t have to drop down deeply. I would do some reps with a lighter weight working on explosive speed but also on lower body form. The posture you’re displaying in your catch on the vid looks like you could run into some problems.
Just my humble opinion…
I know it is quite common for some people to do power cleans and split their legs to the sides instead of going down.
Does anyone think this could damage your ankles? I tried a max last week and felt a little niggle. A few days later i did some take off drills and my ankle twisted very badly on take off and i have torn multiple ligaments.
Because ive never had a problem with this before i dont know what to think, and so many guys lift like this who aren’t specialist Oly lifters.
Damn you are a strong boy! You’re in the wrong sport. Focus on power lifting like that other sprinter dude. 🙂
Thanks Star. I thought the same thing about the feet. Harry AA goes very wide but can bring his knees out, im not so flexible yet.
Nick – Ive seen the standards to go to world champs for weightlifing and its easier than an 8.20 lj, but at least 8.20 will do well at any champs. At 6’0 you need to be a super heavy weight and i cant put on 50kg of muscle, so it’s not for me.
Maybe i can jump huge if my feet actually let me!
There is no issue per se with a wide catch, like what you have. The issue is your uneven catch, where your right foot shoots out more. This could potentially cause quite a few issues around the pelvis/back, especially as you go heavy. Of course, this is a heavy lift, and so might account for the twist.
Does anybody else think the camera angle might be distorting the assessment here?
Funny you metion that Craig because my back isn’t in aligned. If i took a picture of me standing still you can see quite a tilt, but it starts at the back and not the pevis. I just find it strange how i twisted my ankle tearing multiple ligaments a few days after doing max cleans. I normally do lighter triples with reasonable form.
Micheal – look at the 170kg vid, it’s a lot worse.
Joe,
Have you ever thought of doing explosive high pulls and just forgetting about the catch? Your benefit is in the pull, and I think any eccentric benefit is highly mitigated by your catch form. So why bother with the catch?
Some one has mentioned to me before just doing a high pull, i could do that. So doing full cleans is no good either? I have tried them a couple of times and have ok technique, but obviously the weight moves slower when its 15-20kg more.
This is why i normally train with 140, i catch it nearly straight legs, so no errors. Either way, I wont be doing any training at all for a while so i might as well start planning now.
firstly your lifts are fucking mental, cant believe the weight you are lifting. also was just wondering with regards to your injuries whether you do much ankle strengthening work? apologies if you already do stuff but i used to get ankle problems all the time from jumping but for the last couple of years ive been doing weekly ankle strengthening exercises and (touch wood) i havn’t had any ankle problems whatsoever since. and i literally did the exact same thing as you two weeks ago during a max session where i caught a clean in a shit position and absolutely slammed my ankle but within a few seconds it was fine. again, you might already do ankle work but just thought i’d mention it on the off chance that you didn’t
Matt, could you tell me some of the exercises you do? After my sugery this time last year i did a lot of wobble board stuff, basically just going round in circles on it until everything burned. When i realised i wasnt ready for the season i stopped it, until the day before i twisted my ankle actually….
My injuries are all different. First 1 was sinus tarsi syndrome and im not 100% sure how i got it, could have been ankle weakness + theres still a lot of scar tissue. Second is a bone spur at my achilles insertion and not much can be done about that other than keep everything loose down there. Now a few ligaments have been torn.
Lifting and throwing are the only things that has kept me in shape to jump, so ive had to make sure im good at them. Finally did some bounding for the 1st time in 6 years just before this.
I feel like such a little girl after watching you move that weight. I imagine if you dropped and got under it more quickly, you could do quite a bit more.
[quote author="star61" date="1319678552"]Joe,
Have you ever thought of doing explosive high pulls and just forgetting about the catch? Your benefit is in the pull, and I think any eccentric benefit is highly mitigated by your catch form. So why bother with the catch?
Some one has mentioned to me before just doing a high pull, i could do that. So doing full cleans is no good either? I have tried them a couple of times and have ok technique, but obviously the weight moves slower when its 15-20kg more.
This is why i normally train with 140, i catch it nearly straight legs, so no errors. Either way, I wont be doing any training at all for a while so i might as well start planning now.[/quote]Actually I think full cleans are great, as are hang cleans off of a rack. If you go heavy, I would drop the weight, or with hang (rack) cleans, have someone help you rerack the bar. I like heavy cleans for low reps (doubles) and moderate i.e. 60%, for faster, more explosive pulls (sets of 3-5). I just really think the angle of your knees and ankles in the heavy lifts in your vid puts you in a bad position. Even if you don’t want to compete, try to find a good coach and in quick order you will be doing full cleans to a full, narrower, front squat. Your cleans will go up, you will benefit from the front squat, and it will be safer. But as Nick has said many times, strength is not an issue with you. I would be an RFD working fool if I were you.
Star – I only lift twice a week and just do throws/low impact plyo a lot instead of specific track work. I used to do TJ and turned to LJ in 2009 after a long break. Ive been injured 100% of the time since then which is why i work on RFD so much. My fast sessions in the gym were always 80% for doubles or triples.
I was rehabed enough in the passed few weeks to do some decent track work. I was about to have my 1st LJ session when i had my accident. Also im not sure if front squats will benefit me, i can already do 200 full from purely doing Olympic squats.
Not that i believe it, but a lifter i know tells me some world class weightlifter in the past decided to try some indoor 60’s and was beating most top class sprinters? This was a few years ago i was told so i dont remember any names or country.
Might not be the same, but bodybuilder vs Chambers over 60m:
joe – i’ve done loads of different stuff but the thing i’ve found most successful is an ankle walking series whereby you walk with your feet locked in different positions (on your heels, inside of your feet, outside & on your toes). i do it in socks on the track & in the pit. gotta make sure you’re keeping your ankles tight in each position though otherwise is a waste of time. reckon its a vicious cycle for you though as the majority of ankle strength/stability comes from adapting to the impact/stress of what you do but you havn’t been able to jump/bound much and so on the odd occasions that you do it your ankles get hammered. to combat my shin issues (which i always get at the start of the winter from plyos), this year i just built the jumping up ridiculously gradually, which although frustrating has meant that im doing loads now without any problems. i know this is obvious but just wonder whether you try and make up for lost time when you’re able to jump when you’d be better off bringing it in really gradually and giving your ankles/feet etc a chance to adapt and get strong
Might not be the same, but bodybuilder vs Chambers over 60m:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1-ygiI6_3M&feature=related[/youtube]
Considering the fact that the bodybuilder seemed to have very poor flexibility (really short stride) and a ridilculus amount of upper body mass, not too bad. For a sprinter, I would only recommend bodybuilding-type training if his posterior chain was nearly absent, and then only in off season or early GPP. I would still like to see a few athletic Olympic weightlifters timed in the 20, 30, etc.
Joe…
What is your current 4 bounds and a jump best and 6 stride 4 bounds a jump best?
Don’t forget you need a good combination of abilities to be a good long jumper. It’s all about finding the best ratio of abilities for you…For example, a 360 hang clean + a 16m 4BJ versus a 280 hang clean and an 18m 4BJ…which one is best for producing a good long jump?
I have done near your best 4BJ but without the little step into it. Id say i could do 18 if i started to bound a lot.
I would never try a 6 stride bound test, infact i dont do much testing at all. I went about 6 months before trying a new hang clean max. Dont you guys say the OHB is a better test? Ive done 18.16m on that and near 25m for the 4kg.
I think you under-estimate my plyo ability. I did a tone of hops, bounding, hurdle jumps etc, years ago before i even touched weights, and weights have just improved on what i already had. Also, I only had 3 weeks jump training last year and went from 7.30 to 7.65 in training, then 7.60 in comp with a foul measured 7.87. I must be doing something right considering thats probably only 10% of what i would do if fit.
Even the standing 4BJ is no where near as good a predictor as the max 4BJ. All your stuff is static low end power stuff….what about the speed stuff?
I’m not under estimating you just asking and trying to help…also, i dont do the step in to 4bj anymore…I do exactly what they did at National squad now.
10%? lol…So you’d be the world record holder? Just playing dude…you’re gifted as shit, no doubt I’ve said it many times…
Most important physical abilities for LJ (not including technical stuff) in my opinion are:
1) Fly 10m speed
2) 40m sprint speed
3) 12-14 stride LJ distance
4) Bounding at speed (so max 4BJ is a good test)
I meant 10% of how much jumping i would like to do….
My speed was ok last year, i trained with 7.0 runners over 60m and was always 1.5-2m ahead. I cant count this year for anything though after the surgery.
I guess it’s run-in bounding soon then. I’d be scared to try anytime soon + My ankle ligament still needs a few more weeks.
