Power Up!

    Posted In: Blog Discussion

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 18, 2012 at 8:50 am #18608

          Athletes of all shapes and sizes need to become powerful. If you are a distance runner you should squat!!! If you are a sprinter you should do stability work and have great general strength. The best athletes are those who have a body in balance. However, to get enough training across all the biomotor abilities requires a huge commitment from both coach and athlete in terms of time. I also believe

          Continue reading…

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 18, 2012 at 6:31 pm #118470

          People have personally asked me how much weight is on the bar. Its 545 lbs. Not bad for a high school senior at the time.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on November 20, 2012 at 1:51 am #118480

          Can’t tell how deep the athlete is going….

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 20, 2012 at 4:34 am #118481

          He was parallel. Lee is a great lifter and was very strict on his bench and squat through his movements. However, we did have to work a lot on his OL as it took sometime to develop the suppleness to move the bar into the correct positions.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          star61 on November 20, 2012 at 5:13 am #118482

          Ryan,

          For clarification, are we talking about power, strength, or both in general? Your title is “Power Up”, but the exercise shown in the video is a bodybuilding squat (although for low reps like a powerlifter). While I’m sure you’re not saying a marathoner needs to build up more mass in the thighs, do you feel working max strength via squats and bench would help such an athlete? What about power training (Olympic lifts, jumps and plyos)? I’m wondering if the any of the best long distance runners in the world (East Africans) hit the gym for max strength work?

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 20, 2012 at 5:44 am #118483

          Ryan,

          For clarification, are we talking about power, strength, or both in general? Your title is “Power Up”, but the exercise shown in the video is a bodybuilding squat (although for low reps like a powerlifter). While I’m sure you’re not saying a marathoner needs to build up more mass in the thighs, do you feel working max strength via squats and bench would help such an athlete? What about power training (Olympic lifts, jumps and plyos)? I’m wondering if the any of the best long distance runners in the world (East Africans) hit the gym for max strength work?

          Great questions. I cannot speak for all coaches. I do know some distance coaches are still behind the times when it comes to trainig. However, Coach Cook who coached Rowbury, Manzano, and Flanagen (when she was fast on the track now coached by someone different) do/did a lot off of the track work for strength training. In respects to the Marathon is totally different beast.

          In terms of the title “Power Up” max strength is an important part of the globally balanced program for a power athlete. The point of this blog is not to get stuck to long in one area. All athletes should squat and Olympic lift. Maybe with the exception of Marathoner. East African’s do a lot things that would suprise you. Like these athletes do a lot more speed work then runners in other parts of the world. I believe if they had more access to a good weight room and experienced strength coaches they would lift more. Envinorment can trump good training theory. On a side note weight room work for the female runner strength training has benefits beyond the strength acquired. The biggest benefit for females is the strength training helps restoration/recovery. No matter you are Asian, African, or European.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 20, 2012 at 9:27 am #118485

          Resistance training may improve running economy through improved leg muscle coordination
          and co-activation and decreasing stance phase contact times, thereby allowing a faster
          transition from the braking to the propulsive phase through elastic recoil.[26,50,56,72

          Ref: Factors Affecting Running Economy in Trained Distance Runners

          8 weeks heavy squat training improves RE significantly!

          Ref: Maximal Strength Training Improves Running Economy in Distance Runners.
          Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008 May 2.

          Strength training, improves running Economy. Most studies where not done on marathon runners but i am convinced the same applies her.

          Strength training has a positive impact on injury reduction. Major concerns are tendionopathy with distance runners. Heavy strength training has positive impact on tendon properties. But also improvements in stability, muscle balance and function.

          Ryan i would like to here your reasoning on the benefits of restoration for females? T/c ratio? and why not males?

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 20, 2012 at 9:33 am #118486

          I have a hard time understanding whe improvements in RE from strength wouldnt apply for Marathon?

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 20, 2012 at 9:38 am #118487

          This athlete needs to improve his transition from eccentric to concentric. He needs to bounce out of the hole, not decelerate before transition in my opinion. Unless their is some specific reasoning for the deceleration?

        • Participant
          Carl Valle on November 20, 2012 at 10:43 am #118491

          [quote author="star61" date="1353368635"]Ryan,

          For clarification, are we talking about power, strength, or both in general? Your title is “Power Up”, but the exercise shown in the video is a bodybuilding squat (although for low reps like a powerlifter). While I’m sure you’re not saying a marathoner needs to build up more mass in the thighs, do you feel working max strength via squats and bench would help such an athlete? What about power training (Olympic lifts, jumps and plyos)? I’m wondering if the any of the best long distance runners in the world (East Africans) hit the gym for max strength work?

          Great questions. I cannot speak for all coaches. I do know some distance coaches are still behind the times when it comes to trainig. However, Coach Cook who coached Rowbury, Manzano, and Flanagen (when she was fast on the track now coached by someone different) do/did a lot off of the track work for strength training. In respects to the Marathon is totally different beast.

          In terms of the title “Power Up” max strength is an important part of the globally balanced program for a power athlete. The point of this blog is not to get stuck to long in one area. All athletes should squat and Olympic lift. Maybe with the exception of Marathoner. East African’s do a lot things that would suprise you. Like these athletes do a lot more speed work then runners in other parts of the world. I believe if they had more access to a good weight room and experienced strength coaches they would lift more. Envinorment can trump good training theory. On a side note weight room work for the female runner strength training has benefits beyond the strength acquired. The biggest benefit for females is the strength training helps restoration/recovery. No matter you are Asian, African, or European.[/quote]

          Whatever the modality, challenging it maximally, be it strength emphasis, power emphasis, speed and or elastic emphasis needs to be close to the line of unable to do it (without risk). Risk with early athletes is foolish, but eventually people hit the ceiling and must get closer to risk.

          Well some of the best Marathoners in the world have done olympic lifts, plyos, and squats. In fact the world record holder in the marathon Paula did 90 kilos to almost parallel. Some 2:04 guys have done plyos and olympic lifts, not sure of the loads as the youtube always shows facial expressions over “dartfish” views.

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 20, 2012 at 12:14 pm #118494

          Rune I will talk to Mike Smith from build a better runner fame to get you the most accurate answer on your question. Will try to update by tonight in night class now.

          Edit:

          Here is something to us started. I know this could be true for men too but I believe it is important to note the difference between a circuit (lots of distance coaches do this) Vs. a heavier/more intense type of lift.

          Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Volume of Training
          In resistance exercise, total volume is easily calculated by the number of reps x sets x weight that is performed in either a single session of resistance exercise or during a long-term resistance training program. Marx et al. (2001) examined the long term training (6-month training regime) adaptations associated with a low-volume (circuit) resistance training program versus a periodized high-volume resistance program in college-aged women. The study showed that the periodized higher volume resistance program had higher testosterone, insulin-like growth factor-1, and decreased levels of cortisol after the 24 weeks of training when compared to the circuit program. Greater increases in muscular strength, power, and speed were also seen in the high-volume group.
          Smilios et al. (2003) examined the acute effects of the number of sets on testosterone, cortisol, and growth hormone responses after maximum strength (5 reps at 88% of 1RM, 3-min rest) and muscular hypertrophy (10 reps at 75% of 1RM, 3-min rest) protocols with 2, 4 and 6 sets of each exercise in 11 physically active (2-8 years resistance training experience) young men. Subjects also did a strength endurance (15 reps at 60% of 1RM, 1-min rest) protocol with 2 and 4 sets. In the muscular strength protocol, the number of sets did not affect the hormonal profile. In the muscular hypertrophy and strength endurance protocol, there was an increase in cortisol and growth hormone levels in four sets of exercise versus two sets. In this study, there was no significant increase in testosterone in any of the testing conditions. Contrariwise, Kramer and Ratamess (2005) summarize that protocols high in volume do tend to produce acute hormonal elevations in testosterone, as well as cortisol, and growth hormone.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          peterthach28@yahoo.com on November 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm #118497

          A interesting look into the resistance training of 1500m runner Asbel Kiprop!

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 21, 2012 at 5:12 am #118498

          I think this a great example of what not to do.

          The intensity is to low in relation to power development.

          The endurance work is to not specific enough

          The plyos are done with bad technic.

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 21, 2012 at 5:13 am #118499

          lack of equipment is not an excuse her.

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 21, 2012 at 6:05 am #118500

          I asked the best danish 800m runner, Andreas Bube about his strength training.

          He does:

          Jump squats
          Power clean
          RDLs
          cleans
          lunges
          bulgarian split squat
          step ups

          – reps 4-6.
          – 2 times per week
          – Long breaks

          Plyos.

          Bounding.
          skipping

          – 2 times per week
          – 2 * 40m
          – long breaks

          I think this a great example of relevant training for middle to long distance runners.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6u9QXKIc5E

          As this will not only improve top speed but also running economy.

        • Participant
          peterthach28@yahoo.com on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 am #118503

          Is there any periodization to the lifting throughout the year? I was just wondering how he might structure everything along with the different phases of aerobic work. Thanks a ton for that insider!

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 21, 2012 at 9:38 am #118504

          We start General strength, move to maximal, stability, then ballistic in terms of our phases moving to peak cycle for distance runners. Girls lift all year long and dont really take any weeks away from the weight room.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 21, 2012 at 9:52 am #118505

          Why only girls?

          What kind of work is done in the stability phases?

        • Participant
          peterthach28@yahoo.com on November 21, 2012 at 10:00 am #118506

          Sure is a smart way of periodizing things! Do you think it would be beneficial to have middle distance guys include a hypertrophy phase before going into max strength? I’m thinking it might help the 400/800 athlete a bit more. But any thoughts, everybody?

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 21, 2012 at 10:29 am #118507

          With any strentgh work volume improves mxs. Most runners shouldt and usually dont increase csa.

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 21, 2012 at 10:43 am #118508

          Why only girls?

          What kind of work is done in the stability phases?

          Most distance athletes I coach are girls as the head coach of the girls team. That allows me to take them through a more developed set of phases. Boys I usually coach during the off seasons (sumnmer track and winter conditioning). However, we have had strong results with that truncated.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          Ryan Banta on November 21, 2012 at 10:51 am #118509

          Sure is a smart way of periodizing things! Do you think it would be beneficial to have middle distance guys include a hypertrophy phase before going into max strength? I’m thinking it might help the 400/800 athlete a bit more. But any thoughts, everybody?

          Hypertrophy no doubt is a good place to start for athletes of limited experience. As teaching proper movements and building an increased muscle cross section is needed.

          "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

        • Participant
          peterthach28@yahoo.com on November 21, 2012 at 11:46 am #118510

          With any strentgh work volume improves mxs. Most runners shouldt and usually dont increase csa.

          But will periodization of resistance training such as that of sprinters elicit greater improvements in the weight room, ultimately the track for distance runners? Athletes from 800m down usually have this periodization of RT along with their track work. Could we do the same 800m up? There’s a quote from Canova that grabs the idea pretty well from a Letsrun thread:

          “All the Ethiopians use short sprints on track (with spikes). Gebre, for example, every week uses repetitions of 60m (may be 10 times), like a true sprinter. Sprint is sprint : you need the max. concentration in explosive strenght, and must use your brain at its max. intensity. Instead, kenyans use SPEED (from 200m to 400m) in progressive way, but never short sprints with the max. acceleration from the start. Of course, this type of work doesn’t replace the aerobic training, but is something more. The secret is not to replace, but to add.”

          It sure would be something to be able to handle that kind of load: a large volume of aerobic work, a sprinter’s periodization to resistance training, and a strong emphasis on the track work to bridge the two. Would it be worth the time and effort to try something like that as a distance runner?

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 22, 2012 at 6:01 am #118518

          Its challenge to consider and integrate all these elements.

          1. Its helps that kids have a good general track background

          2. That everything is integrated carefully

          3. Its good to think that some om this just needs to not decrease more than improve significantly. Don’t forget that endurance training is the major stimulus.

          4. Best to integrate early on. As a lot of this has to do with not losing mobility, stability, power and elastic qualities before your loaded with a large volume of endurance training

          In relation to volume of training, periods of more volume can drive improvements, while intensity is best to keep high for most of the year.

          The need to think of transfer in training is less than sprinting as the point her is not to improve maximal speed.

        • Participant
          peterthach28@yahoo.com on November 22, 2012 at 7:31 am #118521

          Thanks a ton, Rune Brix! I guess I’m just biting off more than I can chew again. >.< Any thoughts on Scott Christiansen's weight training program? https://www.coachr.org/dista.htm

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 23, 2012 at 10:03 am #118541

          i dont agree with most of the article.

          I can specify

        • Participant
          Rune Brix on November 23, 2012 at 10:09 am #118542

          no need or any science proving the need for strength endurance work.

        • Participant
          peterthach28@yahoo.com on November 23, 2012 at 11:38 am #118544

          no need or any science proving the need for strength endurance work.

          Doesn’t it serve a purpose in strengthening the soft tissues that greater loads don’t early on?

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