Posted In: Sprints
I have a 400m runner who is a freshman. She just ran 1:05.12 today in the open. He 100m splits were broken down like this:
14.17, 14.80 (28.97), 16.18 (45.15), 19.97 (1:05.12)
In case this is needed, she is 13.70 in the 100m. What could you determine from her 400m time?
1. She got out too fast, which messed up the rest of the race.
2. She needs more Speed Endurance or Special Endurance.
Thoughts everyone?
From the looks of what she ran, I would think it's a combo of both. I would bet she got out a little too hard and if she hasn't been training like a 400m runner she may need the Speed Endurance.
What is her 200m pr? You can take her 200m pr add it together and tack on 3-3.5 and that will tell you what she could run.
She should get out over the first 200m 1.0-2.0 of her 200m pr. So if it's 28.0 she should come through the first 200m at 29.5
[i]Originally posted by drivephase1015[/i]
From the looks of what she ran, I would think it's a combo of both. I would bet she got out a little too hard and if she hasn't been training like a 400m runner she may need the Speed Endurance.What is her 200m pr? You can take her 200m pr add it together and tack on 3-3.5 and that will tell you what she could run.
She should get out over the first 200m 1.0-2.0 of her 200m pr. So if it's 28.0 she should come through the first 200m at 29.5
Her 200m PR is 27.7h and 28.14 FAT.
I wasn't sure whether it was needing more SE or what. However, I did tell her that I thought she could have been better off by coming in the first 200m a little slower. I also told her 29.5.
She did not originally train like a 400m runner. I trained her like a short sprinter since this is her first year ever being involved in a sport. Next year (starting this summer) I'll train her like a 200/400 runner.
So you are saying you feel she can go 2-2.5 seconds faster (29.5 + 29.5 = 59.0 + 3.5 = 1:02.50) in the 400m if she just simply slows her first 200m down a half of a second (28.97 to 29.5)? And IF this is what you're saying, she has to run the 4 x 400 on Saturday (tomorrow). Could she make that improvement by tomorrow?
I think she could, if she goes out a second slower than she did before she should comeback 2 or 3 seconds faster. What leg would she run and is was she chasing anyone when she ran it before? If she goes out in 29.5 and comes back in a 33 it's a 62.5. I would tell her to get out at 29.5 and start to accel through the turn and relax coming home.
However, you are the only one who knows where she is at because you've watched her run.
[i]Originally posted by drivephase1015[/i]
I think she could, if she goes out a second slower than she did before she should comeback 2 or 3 seconds faster. What leg would she run and is was she chasing anyone when she ran it before? If she goes out in 29.5 and comes back in a 33 it's a 62.5. I would tell her to get out at 29.5 and start to accel through the turn and relax coming home.However, you are the only one who knows where she is at because you've watched her run.
Even as a 400m runner, that's a new one on me. I'm gonna have her try it, since we'll make regionals regardless in the 4 x 400, but I have to admit, I'm a little skeptical that a one second change in the first 200 would actually IMPROVE her last 200/overall 400 by 3 seconds (changing the 200m splits from 28.97/36.15 to 29.5/33.0)!!! Having said that, I trust information that guys like you, jumpscoach, mike, QUIK, and 400 say. .. . so it's at least worth a try. Thanks drivephase.
It could work. It's about speed reserve.
Now, reading this I have a question….Is it best to train new track and field athletes exclusively, or should general training be used instead? In other words, she was trained 100/200 style early and will be trained 200/400 next year. Why not train her like a 100/200/400 runner and then see where she accels?
Everyone keep in mind that the 3.5 second rule is for highly conditioned advanced athletes, it also works better if the athlete is running at least sub 55 (The faster the athlete is the more likely they'll be able to break the 3.5 second differential). This rule is not really applicable to a grade 9 girl who has just begun to train seriously. If your girl was capable of 3.5 seconds, she would be running under 1 minute (28+28+3.5=59.5), which obviously isn't realistic for her speed.
He was saying slow her 1st 200m down from 28 to 29.5. So. . .
29.5 + 29.5 + 3.5 = 1:02.5
What do you think about that Alex?
I can't really answer the question as I run 100m in 12.5 and would be lucky to break 70seconds in 400m . I am however trying to change that.
I was taught about the 10% rule. Double your best 200 and add 10%. Don't know if it works. See if this works
200m 28.14
400m 1.01.91 (28.14 x 2 = 56.38 + 5.31 = 61.91seconds)
I guess there is two ways of going. Conditioning wise – increase speed or endurance. As for going out maybe a factionally slower (29 – 29.5).
Personally increase speed and make first 200m slightly slower.
Keegan Herring (16 / JR):
100m pb – 10.65
200m pb – 21.40
400m – 47r (just started running this year)
Jessica Onyepunuka (18 / SR):
100m pb – 11.31
200m pb – 23.60 (1 week ago)
400m pb – 56/57
Judith Onyepunuka (16 / So):
100m pb – 11.8?
200m – 23.9
400m – 54 (open)
Kenyanna Wilson (16 / Frosh):
100m pb – 11.80 (1 week ago)
200m pb – 24.06 (1 week ago)
400m pb – 56r (can run that in open but doesn't run it)
Brian Stroughter (17/Soph):
100m pb – 10.6?
200m pb – 21.9?
400m pb – 48r (doesn't concentrate on open but can go faster)
Andrea Mennehet (14 / 8th):
200m pb – 25.??
400m pb – 57.01
800m pb – 2:17
She trains with the sprinters with two SE2 sessions a week
Serene Williams (12 / 6th):
100m pb – 12.0?
200m pb – 26.??
400m pb – 60
Here's the weekly setup for most:
Monday – SE2
Tuesday – SE
Wednsday – Short Speed / SE (up to 80m sprints)
Thursday – Curve running / SE
Friday – Off
Saturday – Comp.
This is during the season for kids on the team. During HS those kids follow a different schedule (under same coach).
These are just a few names from the team. I believe all of them have been training with the team for most if not all of their track careers (some since bantams). NOT saying you disagree, just pleading my case.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!??? Where's the tempo/recovery days?? Aren't they frying their CNS?
You would think they are (b/c I sure as hell did mine with the team), but the kids always peak when necessary and do so in such a beautiful fashion at that. Jessica was running 11.8's and crap all year last year and then goes to Canada for Youth Nationals and drops 11.31. I think the key is the low volume. On SE days they never go over 600-650m really, Wednesday's are never over 300-400m and only one workout goes over like 700m on Monday (the infamous 500-300-250 no one likes). They gotta be doing something right….
Yeah they must be. I'd be scared to do that though, even with little kids.
Why don't they do ANY tempo? Furthermore, why the CNS stuff 5 days a week?
Well, I'm scared myself and now angry. Training with this team I'm actually getting slower….24.16 and 55.44 this weekend and I haven't seen the 100m yet. I'm going back on my own next week cos I've noticed I run the fastest when I run MY WAY.
As for tempo — I don't think Sebastian believes in slow running. He thinks everything should be at near full to full speed or else you won't get faster. He lives by the saying that in order to run fast you have to train fast.
[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
As for tempo — I don't think Sebastian believes in slow running. He thinks everything should be at near full to full speed or else you won't get faster. He lives by the saying that in order to run fast you have to train fast.
I have heard people say this before. I think there is an elite female 400m runner (foreigner) who trains this way. . . can't think of her name right now, but it's not Guevarra or Perec.