[Kebba Tolbert]

Kebba Tolbert on May 23, 2003 at 5:49 am #8399

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Mike wrote:
Agreed. No argument there. As far as Mann's research goes though, note that it is not new, most of his major findings were in fact from before the peak of all those you mentioned (Carl, Ben, etc.). Having said that, I am in no way a Mann disciple or follower. I don't agree with a lot of his conclusions but I think that his data and the numbers he collected certainly does have quite a bit of value.
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what are the things you disagree with? I ask because I've seen him speak 3 times and think that the info is very good but lacking or misleading in some areas.

1) the max velocity values are taken at 80m due to the fact that most athletes are "seperated" by then.

2) the values are generally done over 2-3 strides.

i would "prefer" to see the info gathered on the men's side from about 60-80m and on the women's from 50-75m to get a broader inter and intra individual spectrum.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on May 23, 2003 at 11:32 am #20298

I don't care for some of his interpretation on the role of the arm swing or his conclusions about negative foot velocity at touchdown (pawing). Then again, I've just read his papers and never been at his sprint summits. I've spoken with him a couple times but more socially than about track or sprinting technique.

KT- I changed the title of your post so it would be easier to identify and understand the content of what the thread is about.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on May 26, 2003 at 8:53 am #20299

KT-
Any thoughts or comments about my comments? I'm interested to here if you agree or disagree since you've heard him lecture and I have not.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Carl Valle]

Carl Valle on May 26, 2003 at 11:53 am #20300

I wonder how they measure muscle activation patterns at high speed? What tools do they use for this? I am not a fan of the paw…but even Ralph has very little research.

[Kebba Tolbert]

Kebba Tolbert on May 28, 2003 at 7:44 am #20301

[i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
KT-
Any thoughts or comments about my comments? I'm interested to here if you agree or disagree since you've heard him lecture and I have not.

i think the arms stuff is again a scientists thing… the only thing Mann really says is that it wasn't a **critical factor** that seperated elite vs. sub-elite sprinters…. so it's like tryind to find significgance at the .05 level….

most of the pawing stuff he talks about from the seminar is preceeded by powerful extension from the glutes and hams… the coaches always get into these heated debates with him… it get's funny at times.

i would like to see data at diff parts of the races.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on May 28, 2003 at 1:29 pm #20302

[i]Originally posted by ktolbert[/i]
i think the arms stuff is again a scientists thing… the only thing Mann really says is that it wasn't a **critical factor** that seperated elite vs. sub-elite sprinters…. so it's like tryind to find significgance at the .05 level….

In general, I agree with him that the arm swing is probably way too overcoached and is given too much credit for sucess. I don't dispute his point that it won't be a differentiating factor between elite and sub-elite sprinters. What I disagree with is that he only credits (to my understanding) the arm swing for balance. My understanding is that he gives no credit to the arms for lift forces which has been found to be a role of the arm swing by Hinrichs and also verified by some of my own testing using force platforms.

Phoenix-
EMG can be collected at high speed several ways. In fact, I just collected on someone at 24 mph (obviously on a high speed treadmill). You can use fine wire electrode insertion into the muscle belly and then tape down the external portion of the wire; you can have electrodes which transmit via radio signal to a wireless reciever; you can have a portable EMG recorder which the person wears when they run; or you can have them run on a treadmill and carefully suspend wires from the ceiling.

ELITETRACK Founder