As time went on, we found different supplements to be more valuable than steroids….We found that using the whole complex of vitamin B could help add 3-4 meters to a throw. -Anatoly Bondarchuk No matter how glamorous something seems to be we must look at the context of the results. For example Bondarchuk has been used as an example of superior techniques but when we look more clearly at th
Results or Russian Roulette?
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ParticipantThis AGAIN! is one reason i don’t like this site…
YOU are always trying to to make examples of people on the front page of the website…there is NO NEED for you to do this…
Your not above anyone to be able to always do this…It is totally childish and makes you look insecure and un- professional.
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Participant
This AGAIN! is one reason i don’t like this site…
YOU are always trying to to make examples of people on the front page of the website…there is NO NEED for you to do this…
Your not above anyone to be able to always do this…It is totally childish and makes you look insecure and un- professional.
I am very secure, and a proud American. Your opinion on if I have the right to blog about this subject matter is fine but remember people are coming to read the site as the internet traffic is up. Perhaps everyone is going to elitetrack.com to read your training log?
This site is Mike Youngs and I will follow his request. If my blog is not what he likes I will change it.
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Participant
We just had an issue Carl with someone causing problems etc…Mike wrote a Blog basically asking everyone to get along and not be so combative during debates. You are one of the reasons why this behavior is going to continue.
You are deliberately making an example of James Smith and by putting in on the front page you clearly want to make it a big example. It’s out of line.
And regards to my blog. It is very popular isn’t it. Maybe this is because of Mike more so than me however. -
Participant
Let’s be clear here, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Once that opinion is publicly stated, no matter how it is couched or cloaked, it moves from being a personal opinion more to the staking out of a position. If you disagree with this point, why does one feel the need to publically state one’s beliefs?
Doing so naturally invites comments supporting, questioning, challenging and or opposing. That in an open forum, others might challenge a position is to be expected. The intensity with which one offers statements is most often equaled by the intensity of the discourse that follows.
Some may note recently I have not been a regular participant on the board. There are many reasons for this, partly because this time of year I find myself in more off-line / one on one discussions. But also, the nature of the give and take of late is something that while I enjoy following, I choose not to slog into. Doesn’t make it good or bad, it just is and I wouldn’t presume any just cause to challenge.
Most know I tend towards cryptic responses. That habit is the evolution of a cynical former response style reflective of Carl’s style. Time evolves us all and I have seen Carl evolve since his old regeneration lab days and those classic posts. Just as in many other things in life, don’t confuse style with substance.
While I admire Vern and consider him a friend, he advises not to partake of Charlie’s site. I can admire Vern but not choose to throw Charlie out with the bathwater. In the same sprit I suggest that just as someone has the right to opinions and to free speech, the rest have equal freedom to participate or not. I am picturing a recent visit to my front door by 2 young men in white shirts and black ties. No it wasn’t Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones in Ray-Bans, but a couple of Salt Lake good ol boys. I politely gave them a round trip… Similarly I suggest that if a particular poster offends one’s sensibilities, that when you see that person’s post, scroll on by.
The back and forth between combatants is usually a good read. 3rd party’s posts that don’t contribute to the topic but serve only to align one with a camp, tend to be the lesser reads and needlessly detract from the quality of the discourse.
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Participant
One of the reasons i read this sight is because of Carl and his challenging the experts and self proclaimed gurus out there. This leads to greater thinking and a look in the mirror to see if what you are doing can be done better and if what you are doing is helping.
With an open forum like the Internet anyone can be a guru or expert and post “misinformation” if i can steal from Bud Charngia. If nobody brings valid critique and questions this then our profession continues to go in the wrong direction.
Just because someone reads a bunch of Russian or eastern bloc texts and creates an Internet alter ego does not make what they have to say valid at all. Carl simply challenged various points like he does always. If someone puts thereself out there like that and can never answer a question but rather dance around it with more big words and theory and never rubber meets the road answers then maybe then need to go back to the drawing board.
Thanks Carl for stimulating the gray matter
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Participant
One of the reasons i read this sight is because of Carl and his challenging the experts and self proclaimed gurus out there. This leads to greater thinking and a look in the mirror to see if what you are doing can be done better and if what you are doing is helping.
With an open forum like the Internet anyone can be a guru or expert and post “misinformation” if i can steal from Bud Charngia. If nobody brings valid critique and questions this then our profession continues to go in the wrong direction.
Just because someone reads a bunch of Russian or eastern bloc texts and creates an Internet alter ego does not make what they have to say valid at all. Carl simply challenged various points like he does always. If someone puts thereself out there like that and can never answer a question but rather dance around it with more big words and theory and never rubber meets the road answers then maybe then need to go back to the drawing board.
Thanks Carl for stimulating the gray matter
I agree with this post wholeheartedly.
Whilst I think that this blog was a little too personal for the front page, I tend to agree that the challenges are warranted. Firstly, I would like to say that I welcome any disagreement with my points of view as I realise that I need to present a better structure to my argument or provide better evidence. Herein I have noticed that some arguing the merits of the Russian system have not justified their arguments with clarity or addressed any discussion points directly.
Originally I thought the arguments were for the benefit of Russian methods to running faster, but they switched to focussing on the hammer throw and then swimming. I don’t think that has furthered any cause for Russian training methods. Instead of just arguing about arguing I would like to see a more constructive debate on Russian systems especially with regards to the female jumpers and middle distance runners. How about the training methods/system that has produced the remarkable Russian female polevaulter? I don’t believe that these successes are due to Russian roulette and open this question to the floor.
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Participant
Can we get off the Russian blogs already. Youve started like 5 blogs now calling out the russian training and James but don’t address the comments in the forum when someone (mostly james) brings them up. Instead you choose to right another blog. As a middle distance guy my self I don’t care too much about this topic but it seems downright rude to ignore forum posts and just right another blog (what Nick calls ‘calling people out’).
I don’t have a problem getting something from all different points of views so I’m not taking sides on content but I fully agree that the way carl is responding to comments is getting annoying. If your going to challenge someone do it mano-et-mano instead of continually talking down to them from your pedestal.
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Participant
Good post from Trackjabber.
Thanks. As the owner of several web sites and several forums (all but 1 intentionally allow anonymous posting) of various subjects I’m guessing that in this ‘use your name’ forum with real user accounts that there are many others who feel the same but would not stand up to say it for fear of getting blasted like James and put on the front page.
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Participant
Can we get off the Russian blogs already. Youve started like 5 blogs now calling out the russian training and James but don’t address the comments in the forum when someone (mostly james) brings them up. Instead you choose to right another blog. As a middle distance guy my self I don’t care too much about this topic but it seems downright rude to ignore forum posts and just right another blog (what Nick calls ‘calling people out’).
I don’t have a problem getting something from all different points of views so I’m not taking sides on content but I fully agree that the way carl is responding to comments is getting annoying. If your going to challenge someone do it mano-et-mano instead of continually talking down to them from your pedestal.
Bang on point again.
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Participant
[quote author="Callam Mccabe" date="1239593642"]Good post from Trackjabber.
Thanks. As the owner of several web sites and several forums (all but 1 intentionally allow anonymous posting) of various subjects I’m guessing that in this ‘use your name’ forum with real user accounts that there are many others who feel the same but would not stand up to say it for fear of getting blasted like James and put on the front page.[/quote]
This brings about a great point. Should we change the system for one bad apple?
The use of a real name may discourage the often inventive and sometimes imaginative arguments in favour of only the most stringent arguments. This may create a dinosaur where what is in fact occurring is a dynamic fast moving debate on various issues. I’m still in favour of the ‘call name’ as they often display a brand (so to speak) that can reflect intention such as seriousness or humour or rebellion.Back to the original blog, any attempt to discredit a particular coach or system with reference to ‘vitamins’ should be taken with caution as we are unfortunately being exposed to more and more admissions of ‘creative supplementation’ across the board regardless of geography. By suggesting the ‘miracle cure’ we may instead be blind to the real contribution of a coach or athlete in terms of training technique or systems.
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Participant
[quote author="trackjabber" date="1239594294"][quote author="Callam Mccabe" date="1239593642"]Good post from Trackjabber.
Thanks. As the owner of several web sites and several forums (all but 1 intentionally allow anonymous posting) of various subjects I’m guessing that in this ‘use your name’ forum with real user accounts that there are many others who feel the same but would not stand up to say it for fear of getting blasted like James and put on the front page.[/quote]
This brings about a great point. Should we change the system for one bad apple?
The use of a real name may discourage the often inventive and sometimes imaginative arguments in favour of only the most stringent arguments. This may create a dinosaur where what is in fact occurring is a dynamic fast moving debate on various issues. I’m still in favour of the ‘call name’ as they often display a brand (so to speak) that can reflect intention such as seriousness or humour or rebellion.Back to the original blog, any attempt to discredit a particular coach or system with reference to ‘vitamins’ should be taken with caution as we are unfortunately being exposed to more and more admissions of ‘creative supplementation’ across the board regardless of geography. By suggesting the ‘miracle cure’ we may instead be blind to the real contribution of a coach or athlete in terms of training technique or systems.[/quote]My point was actually not to get rid of the naming policy (who am i to say that) but that others likely feel the same way nik, myself and callum apparently feel but they won’t say anything because they’ve just witnessed james get badgered by carl and daniel and don’t want to get the same.
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Participant
About the blog . . .
I can’t agree more about what Carl has stated in the closing lines. His opinion and views come from various great coaches, not just from one. While James certainly was very knowledgeable, in order to become better, one has to question and be open to other ideas.
I had a conversation with a coach who was coaching for 30+ years this weekend and we were talking training. We talked about the many means of practicing girls 100m hurdles. While I am not even a great hurdle coach, we both talked about the positives and negatives about hurdle height and hurdle spacing.
Some of the topics varied from:
– Do we get too caught up in running 5 or more hurdles outdoors to get ready for the race?
– Should we continue to spend most of our time with the early rhythm of the race?
– Better to run 3-4 great hurdles than 5-7 crappy onesI think we both came out better on the other side and it was a jam-packed conversation in between the many events going on. Had I thought my way was the highway, I would have gained nothing out of the conversation.
Blog again . . .
Look for commonalities amongst great track coaches. What do they do that is similar? Why does that correlate over? A hard skill may take longer, but adaptation will be greater. Complex activities build complex motor systems. Give me grape, blue raspberry, orange, and every flavor kool aid.
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Participant
About the blog . . .
I can’t agree more about what Carl has stated in the closing lines. His opinion and views come from various great coaches, not just from one. While James certainly was very knowledgeable, in order to become better, one has to question and be open to other ideas.
I had a conversation with a coach who was coaching for 30+ years this weekend and we were talking training. We talked about the many means of practicing girls 100m hurdles. While I am not even a great hurdle coach, we both talked about the positives and negatives about hurdle height and hurdle spacing.
Some of the topics varied from:
– Do we get too caught up in running 5 or more hurdles outdoors to get ready for the race?
– Should we continue to spend most of our time with the early rhythm of the race?
– Better to run 3-4 great hurdles than 5-7 crappy onesI think we both came out better on the other side and it was a jam-packed conversation in between the many events going on. Had I thought my way was the highway, I would have gained nothing out of the conversation.
Blog again . . .
Look for commonalities amongst great track coaches. What do they do that is similar? Why does that correlate over? A hard skill may take longer, but adaptation will be greater. Complex activities build complex motor systems. Give me grape, blue raspberry, orange, and every flavor kool aid.
The problem is the delivery not the content. Why 5 blogs when one where carl actually answered questions in his blog would be best. 5 (or however many) blogs without addressing the questions or issues within one of them (til the next blog) is what is what I was calling foul about. By doing his responses only in the form of the next blog it makes it look like carl is talking down and ‘calling out’ people.
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Participant
hello,
Have a question that i hope someone(anyone)can answer. Is the Bondarchuk theory
(from what understand this is applicable to other Ussr coaches as well) of “dynamic
correspondence” correct? In other words does training follow the path of “specificity”
as one climbs the ladder of sport development(PASM according to the Soviets)?
In the long range preparation(multi-year) of sprinters where do the Oly lifts fall?
Are they at the elite level in any significant volume or are they more applicable to
the intermediate? I was once told that the so called “ballistic” exercices(jumps with light loads maybe 25-30% of 1rm and shot or med ball throws) because they are “faster”
apply more to the elite sprinter.Tabachnick informed me that the Oly lifts were used with sprinters but did not tell me at what level the athlete was. Love to hear some opinions.
Brandon Green
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