I've read articles on jumping before, saying how jumping ability is based little on calves, somewhat on hamstrings, and predominantly on Quadriceps… Now, for sprinting, what would many say is the dominant muscle, what muscle if you were to strengthen to its potential would have the greatest impact on your speed? I've always wondered what does what and whats more important then what…
Role of Muscles in Sprinting
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Participant
Actually theres a good article on the website on it, they are all involved but the hamstrings the most, just do general strength work(squats would be a start), leave the isolation exercises alone(use things like glute-ham raises, hypers, single leg hypers, reverse leg press, good mornings and RDL's as assistance exercises to build up the hamstrings) and sprint and all of it will come together
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Participant
Ok So If i did Squats, Ham/Glute Raises, Reverse Leg press would this be enough, or should I add one or two more? I don't have anythign to do hypers on unfortunately… also for all of those above exercises, how many sets/reps of each should I be going for?
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Participant
yes that should be sufficient. You could do squats one workout, reverse leg press another and have the glute ham raises as the supplemental exercise to both. I use a rep limit of 18 reps per session for exercises. So for the squats and reverse leg press id do 4-6×2-3, and for glute ham raises id do 2-3×4-6
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KeymasterQuads are more important for acceleration, hamstrings are more important for MaxV running.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Ok so Mike, two workouts a week would be fine then? 1 with Squats/Hamglute Raises and 1 with Reverse Leg Press/Hamglute Raises… would a third with Squats again and Hamgluteraises be beneficial or too much? Also you mentioned that Quads are for acceleration and Hams are for max speed, I do need to work on my acceleration, so even though Quad curls are isolating just teh Quads and is not a multi joint exercises.. if I threw that in there would it end up doing me more good, or more bad? And if it would do more good then bad, where should I throw it in in the weeks schedule and how many reps/sets? thanks a lot for all the help Mike, I just want to get this program set up so I can start training on a proper program and hopefully get a lot faster.
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Keymaster
I think you could do a third workout with squats but your body will know better than I will. I wouldn't bother with leg extensions unless they were being used as a form of low intensity general strength exercise. If you wanted to stress the quads in a more functional manner you could use front squats which place much more emphasis on the quads than posterior chain.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
What do you guys think about calf strength in relation to speed mintenance? I’ve noticed that when I run my 400’s, the first two things to go are my arms (don’t ask, I have arms that are disproportionatly long for my 5’7 body, like a gorilla) and my calves, where you’d think your quads/hams would go before either since this is where most of the power is generated in the lower body.
Also, our trainer never has us do exercises that isolate the calves specifically. The one lift that we do which invloves calves is wave squats, but that’s it. Now, obviously, you use your whole legs, including the calves when you do leg exercises like squats/lunges, etc…but, in your opinions, do calves need to be given more attention?
Thanks,
Ben
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Participant
CF said that tempo work, sprinting and oly lifts will take care of calf strength. Another thing to point out is that with greater weight (calf hypertrophy) on the lower legs stride rate will decease. An option that DB Hammer suggests is to do weighted walks on toes and squats on toes.
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Participant
How sure are you about the implication that calf Size will actually have any Real affect of stride rate? As Albert Einstein said – “The best solution is most often found as the simplest solution.”
here’s a simple solution ~Upon visual observation of:
Maurice Greene – (16 inch calf)
Michael Johnson
J Gatlin
Coby Miller
Asafa Powell
Tim Mont.
Donovan Bailey
Ben Johnson
and
The Entire 100 meter final at the 2004 NCCA champchips.All calf sizes are Far above average.
My estimates at least an average size of 15.5 inches in diameter.
In fact, if study was done, I could probably Prove that the Larger the calf-size – the faster the human as a tendancy. I’m not saying calf size has Anything to do with being fast, because it simply does not. It is of least importance in all out speed. However, we’re talking about the Worlds Fastest ever and Fastest of Today – So breaking it down is quite Simple:Weather small or large, a sprinters calf size has minute true affect on speed, espescially Stride Rate.
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Participant
After all Mo and Ato had/have the fattest calves around, standing at only 5’8 a piece they have the fastest stride rates the world has probably Ever known and the fastest times…
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Participant
um 16 inch calves arent that big. i myself have 15 inchers. and maybe it was a mistype in your post, but no one has calves 15 inches in diameter, that would be quite….large…huge…..monstrous…
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Participant
Maurice Greene
Michael Johnson (19)
Ato Boldon
Justin Gatlin
Asafa Powell
Dwain Chambers
Tim Mont.
Coby Miller – 20.5 inch calves (Aurburn 00′ football testing) 9.9 at the olympic trials/world 200 indoor champ 2001, member of 4×1 team @ two olympicsObvious Observation of my 40+ taped races says that these men have some of the most developed calf-muscles I have ever seen. In range from small orange to grapefruit.
But wait, wait – then this can’t be right… they must not be That fast, not with their calf development caluculated in (bearing great importance)…
Dang, I guess sub 10 and sub 20 just aint’ what it used to be…
You’re lucky I could only find Two of these guys measurments…
Remember: Weather small or large, a sprinters calf size has minute true affect on speed, espescially Stride Rate.c
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Participant
Don’t sweat the petty stuff guys!
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Member
You’re lucky I could only find Two of these guys measurments…
How so? Tell me why I’m lucky. This is a messageboard.
Michael Johnson don’t have 20 inch calves G.
My upper leg is about 22 inches, and I have pretty strong, well built legs.
It’s obvious that elite sprinters will have muscular calves, because they’re shredded all over. No one said calf size was of great importance, except maybe you (with your list of sprinters that apparently have huge calves). I like you know the calves have little to do with sprinting. The best sprinters and jumpers I have seen on my college team all have smallish calves and long achilles tendons. -
Participant
[i]Originally posted by 800prince[/i]
Large calves are a mechanical disadvantage in sprinting.here:
(it’s funny, cause in this one; Mo happens to be leaving one of your prototypical “fast college pals” in the dust.) –
https://www.dyestatcal.com/image/3tr/Aprilpictures/030419R%20Attical%20M%20SAC/030419MGreene200.JPG
After reviewing this picture feel free to admit that you were wrong.
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Participant
https://www.collectr.com/ol/images/opjohnsonm.jpg
– 19 inch Michael Johnson
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Member
Mo is 5’8 170, Coby is prolly 5’8 180. They are big all over. To say that the calves are the only difference between mo and the the guy to his right is a joke. Look at their upper legs and their entie bodies, that’s a much bigger difference than their calves.
BTW What you want to race one of my “fast college pals”
This is the bottom line:
1.Calves play a very insignificant role in sprinting
2. Direct calf work is a waste of time for sprinters
3. Most would agree that a dorsiflexed ankle allows for the most force output -
Participant
you have provided 3 measurements. maurice green with 16, michael johnson with 19, and coby miller with 20.5. mos obviously arent that big, as ive already stated. and the other figures i simply doubt. where are you getting your information? sounds kinda made up.
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by 800prince[/i]
1.Calves play a very insignificant role in sprinting
2. Direct calf work is a waste of time for sprinters
3. Most would agree that a dorsiflexed foot allows the most force outputthat’s all you had to say. I agree 100%.
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Participant
This is getting stupid. I wasn’t trying to insult you. I was just trying to state my point. Arguments can be good when we learn something. I get the feeling that the only reason you posted on this thread was to quarrel with me, questioning my credibility and making comments without explanation in hopes of frustrating me.
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Participant
you talking to 800? i still wanna know your sources cuz 19 is a huge calf if what you say is true.
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Member
[i]Originally posted by Big10champ[/i]
This is getting stupid. I wasn’t trying to insult you. I was just trying to state my point. Arguments can be good when we learn something. I get the feeling that the only reason you posted on this thread was to quarrel with me, questioning my credibility and making comments without explanation in hopes of frustrating me.Alright let’s just forget this stupid ass thread, and try to post about ways to improve ourselves or others performance on the track.
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Participant
~ My Bibliography ~
(Book) Johnson Michael. “Slaying the Dragon: How to Turn Your Small Steps to Great Feats” August 1, 1996. Harpercollins pub. New York, NY.
Number of pages: 256(Online source) <https://p209.ezboard.com/fauburnfootballfanforumfrm7>
RE: // 11/06/04 6:18 pm : Posted by auburntig1111Coach Smith,
Could would you please restate what sprinter Coby Miller’s physical stats were from 2001 testing.
– Thanks, CoK. –
_________________________________225B – 30 times. 2nd
315S – 14 times. 1st
PP – 300 – 3rdHT: 70.3 (in)
WT: 181
Wst: 34
WS: 68
For: 17
Calf: 20.5
Th: 27.5 -
Keymaster
Here’s the deal:
*Increased muscle cross sectional area has an extremely high correlation with force production.
*When something is rotating about an axis, it will rotate faster if its mass is distributed closer to the axis. In the case of the lower leg, this means that it is advantageous to have a high gastroc muscle attachment because it will mean that regardless of whether the muscle itself is big or small, the distribution of the muscle’s mass will be close to the axis of rotation (the knee). If you’re having trouble understanding this concept, pick up a wooden baseball bat. First swing it by the handle. Then turn it backwards so that you’re holding the wrong (heavy) end. You’ll soon find out how much easier it is to swing the bat fast when the bulk of the bass is located close to the axis of rotation.
*Increased tendon length should increase the elasticity of the musculotindinous unit.Having said all that, there are obviously tradeoffs. A really big gastroc muscle should in theory be capable of producing more force. It will however require more force be produced from the upper thigh and hip muscles to move the bigger and heavier leg. The ideal lower leg musculature seems to be a heavily muscled, medium sized gastroc that has a high muscle attachment and a long achilles tendon.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
so this medium sized gastroc isnt 19 inches right mike? :bounce:
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Keymaster
19 inches is pretty huge.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
hahaha yeah i know
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