[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on April 3, 2003 at 10:12 pm #8315

some say good some say bad… however i feel differnt peoples idea of sets to failure differs…
as everyone knows max strength gains are achived by lifting high loads under 5 reps. so my question is for a person who max bench presses 300 pounds and can do 270 for 2 sets of 3 and the last set can only do 2 reps is that considered to failure? when i think of failure i think of doing a lighter weight and burning out usually above 8-10 reps.. and the reason people may think this is bad and only needed during certain phases is because it deals with mitocondia and getting oxygen to the muscle.. can someone elablorate what they think of as failure and when to do and when not to do this as well as the benifits.. because as sprinters we want to get strength without size so usually do 3-4 reps of power exersises such as bench squat clean shoulder press.. but if you are not doing the 3-4 reps to failure i feel you are not gettin the same strength benefit..
??????

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 3, 2003 at 10:25 pm #19460

Actually strength gains come best at multiple sets under a high load rather than 1-2 sets at a high load taken to failure. So instead of 2 x 3-5 (taken to failure) @ 90% , you’d be much better off doing 8 x 2 @ 90% or even (and contrary to intuition) 4 x 2 @ 90%. I don’t have much time to elaborate as I’m about to leave for Texas but will do so when I get back.

ELITETRACK Founder

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on April 3, 2003 at 10:27 pm #19461

ok i understamd but the 2 reps would be to failure am i correct?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2003 at 9:07 am #19462

Haha-
I found a Schlotzskis Deli in Austin, TX that has internet computers.

Quick-
Actually the 2 reps would be sub-maximal / non-failure. Don’t by in to the H.I.T.T. stuff. I’ll explain more later.

ELITETRACK Founder

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on April 4, 2003 at 9:44 am #19463

what is H.I.T.T.? but mike this can wait…. no need to run around to in and out of deli’s and coffe shops looking for internet computers… next thing ya know youre gonna get the internet on your cell phone and respond on there… anyway good luck to you and your team in texas…tty when u get back!

[Kebba Tolbert]

Kebba Tolbert on April 7, 2003 at 2:01 am #19464

[i]Originally posted by QUIKAZHELL[/i]
ok i understamd but the 2 reps would be to failure am i correct?

when we do 10×2 or something like it… it is usually at a certain pctage (usually 80-95%). Sometimes we’ll pyramid up, pryamid down. or both within the set.

So a 10 x 2 could look like this for a person with a PR of 100K

set 1 and 2 – 75k from hang
set 3 – 85k from floor
set 4 -70-85k from flloor w/jerk finish
sets 5-6 – from hang at 80k w/front dquat fiinish
sets 7-8 – from floor at 90k
sets 9-10 – from hang at 75k with jerk finsih

obviously there are tons of other variations but this is an example of something i will do depending on what i see. If things are looking very good (i.e., from a timing and rhytmic standpoint) i will often tell the athlete sometime after set 4-7 to:
1) go to singles at a higher percentage than they had been working at or

2 )to try for a new PR or

3) to finish out the workout with sets of 2 at their current PR

you’d be suprised how often they’re able to get new PR’s in this type of envrionment

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 7, 2003 at 10:39 am #19465

Quick,
H.I.T. stands for High Intensity Training and has quite a big following. The basic idea behind it is that volume should be minimal and every set should be taken to failure to maximize muscle / motor unit activation. Basically, it sounds good on paper but in reality is a bunch of crock. It might have a place in training for the purpose of variety but it’s purported benefits do not live up to the claims (indicated by several research studies as well as anecdotal evidence).

Keep in mind that almost all of the top olympic weightlifters in the past decade have used very high loads lifted for submaximal repitions for numerous sets. For example, 10 x 2 @ 90%. Under this protocol, an athlete is able to lift 20 total reps at a 90% load. If they were to take sets to failure they would perhaps only be able to lift a total of 6 reps @ 90%. Not only does this allow for a greater volume of work to be done at a very high intensity, but it also is slightly sub-maximal, meaning a faster and perhaps greater supercompensation. This would explain why even 4 x 2 @ 90% would yield greater strength gains than 2 sets taken to failure at 90% (for perhaps 3 reps on set 1 and then 2 reps on set 2).

I’ve used something similar to Kebba’s routine but have also performed straight sets without variation other than the load. I think doing it like this (straight sets with varying increasing load) offers a great opportunity to work the whole speed continuum. This however can only be done if the lighter sets are not just viewed as ‘warmup sets’ but rather as opportunities to develop power through higher velocity movement. Power is best developed with loads in the 55-65% range and the lighter sets that most would view as ‘warmup’ can actually be used for serious training.

ELITETRACK Founder