Sick of hearing about southern speed in football.

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        • Participant
          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 9:06 am #12599

          All I have heard for the past couple days while watching football was about the speed of the southern based schools.  Who are they kidding and what film are they watching?  Anybody with any knowledge of football and speed development which seems quite rare these days is that Boise State, Wisconsin, Penn State, Nevada, Nebraska, etc.. and so on have speed.  What football comes down to is Blocking and Tackling, if you can't do that I don't care how much speed you have, because it won't matter.  I made this remark to my friends about when Nebraska was beat by Miami in the 2002 Rose Bowl.  Nebraska had speed and Miami had speed, but physically Nebraska beaten by Miami and it showed, the control of the line of scrimmage in that game wasn't because of Miami's speed, it was combination of executing technique through speed, strength, and agility.

          What are your thoughts?

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 9:18 am #61534

          dont get too happy my man, OU is gonna blow boise out in the second half. thats when that speed will take over.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 9:23 am #61535

          Have you been watching the same game as I?

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 9:26 am #61536

          Have you been watching the same game as I?

          just like mich hung tough with usc for the first half, second half speed took over. just like texas did iowa on sat.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 9:29 am #61537

          Michigan's downfall today was executing against the USC blitz and Boise had little trouble with OU's blitz so far.  Iowa and Texas were pretty even in terms of speed it seemed as well as execution.

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          cerebro on January 2, 2007 at 9:29 am #61538

          I actually tend to agree that a lot of the northern schools don't have great speed, at least, the kind of speed you would see on the track. For instance, Justin King (PSU) got his crap blown in in track vs Andrew Johnson (UMiami) in high school. Sure, King will prob. end up making the $$ and PSU is better, but Johnson is still faster. King has a 100m PR of like 10.9x (albeit he didn't run his senior year b/c of football) and is one of the fastest guys at PSU. I think they also recruited that #1 sprinter in PA a year or two back, who may be their fastest, but I am talking about straight football guys.

          Another example, Darren Walls (cb @ Notre Dame) is not particularly fast, despite playing a "speed" position on his team. He ran sub 11 once (10.98 I think) on a windy day, despite doing track for at least 4 years and training hard for it. At our conference meet, he ran 11.3x.

          I think it just goes to show speed doesn't mean that much in football except for a select few positions/purposes (kick return, deep routes, etc.) and there are a lot of other, most important qualities.

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          mortac8 on January 2, 2007 at 9:33 am #61539

          Penn St has speed?  Knowledge Timmons is prob their fastest player and he doesn't even play.  South has speed partly because it has nicer weather.  I don't see many sprint champions coming from poor climates (esp in HS where teams are more unlikely to have indoor facilities for speed & sport practice).
          BTW: Go Broncos

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 9:34 am #61540

          Michigan's downfall today was executing against the USC blitz and Boise had little trouble with OU's blitz so far.  Iowa and Texas were pretty even in terms of speed it seemed as well as execution.

          dude ur crazy.

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 9:34 am #61541

          I actually tend to agree that a lot of the northern schools don't have great speed, at least, the kind of speed you would see on the track. For instance, Justin King (PSU) got his crap blown in in track vs Andrew Johnson (UMiami) in high school. Sure, King will prob. end up making the $$ and PSU is better, but Johnson is still faster. King has a 100m PR of like 10.9x (albeit he didn't run his senior year b/c of football) and is one of the fastest guys at PSU. I think they also recruited that #1 sprinter in PA a year or two back, who may be their fastest, but I am talking about straight football guys.

          Another example, Darren Walls (cb @ Notre Dame) is not particularly fast, despite playing a "speed" position on his team. He ran sub 11 once (10.98 I think) on a windy day, despite doing track for at least 4 years and training hard for it. At our conference meet, he ran 11.3x.

          I think it just goes to show speed doesn't mean that much in football except for a select few positions/purposes (kick return, deep routes, etc.) and there are a lot of other, most important qualities.

          who is justin king,how will he make more money then andrew johnson?

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 9:39 am #61542

          I think Boise State is making a case that the wrong teams are in the National Championship Game.

          And good points cerebro, the speed qualities in football are related to acceleration abilities while wearing equipment and with good use of visual feedback to anticipate movements before they happen which leads to more agile moves.

        • Participant
          cerebro on January 2, 2007 at 9:41 am #61543

          Justin King is a DB/athlete @ Penn. St. He will make more money because he will go to the NFL and Andrew Johnson will be lucky to get a TD next season at the U. Johnson has incredible talent (he ran 6.90 w/o practicing and his 2nd or 3rd meet of the year his jr. year), but is lazy, something a lot of the fast guys seem to have in common.

          danimal–I even question the acceleration to an extent because whenever I watched Justin King run or Darren Walls–their best part of the race was middle/end.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 9:45 am #61544

          Tony Hunt was pretty effective against Tennessee today.

          cerebro, I am talking about wearing equipment while accelerating that changes somethings, raises the COM, adds more mass to the system, etc… 

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 9:46 am #61545

          Tony Hunt was pretty effective against Tennessee today.

          cerebro, I am talking about wearing equipment while accelerating that changes somethings, raises the COM, adds more mass to the system, etc…  

          what about tcu and northern ill, texas tech vs minn. damn adrain look pretty fast there.

        • Participant
          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 9:58 am #61546

          [quote author="danimal9" date="1167711326"]
          Tony Hunt was pretty effective against Tennessee today.

          cerebro, I am talking about wearing equipment while accelerating that changes somethings, raises the COM, adds more mass to the system, etc… 

          what about tcu and northern ill, texas tech vs minn. damn adrain look pretty fast there.
          [/quote]

          believe what you want, but the team that wins executes better.  It's rare to find speed disparities that actually make a difference on the field anymore at the DI level.  TCU the #1 run defense in the country shutdowns a one dimensional running team, texas tech beats minnesota a team which probably shouldn't even be in a bowl with a 5-6 record against DI teams. 

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 10:03 am #61547

          [quote author="utfootball4" date="1167711432"]
          [quote author="danimal9" date="1167711326"]
          Tony Hunt was pretty effective against Tennessee today.

          cerebro, I am talking about wearing equipment while accelerating that changes somethings, raises the COM, adds more mass to the system, etc…  

          what about tcu and northern ill, texas tech vs minn. damn adrain look pretty fast there.
          [/quote]

          believe what you want, but the team that wins executes better.  It's rare to find speed disparities that actually make a difference on the field anymore at the DI level.   TCU the run defense in the country shutdowns a one dimensional running team, texas tech beats minnesota a team which probably shouldn't even be in a bowl with a 5-6 record against DI teams. 
          [/quote]

          ur right im gonna believe what i want, i played D1 ball and the fastest team normally win…  you just cant look at one big 10 team etc, look over the last past 10years when sec teams play big 10 – speed wins.  there are faster players today then there were 10yrs ago, bc everyone knows how important speed is.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 10:09 am #61548

          It comes down to execution in blocking and tackling, because if you don't have those traits you have a Texas Tech or these other speed only teams from the past Houston and La Tech.  Meaning you'll be a 4-9 win team each year.  Good coaches know it comes down to control of the line of scrimmage. 

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          cerebro on January 2, 2007 at 10:10 am #61549

          ut–what would you consider reasonable speed for a db/wr/rb at the D1 level? The pro level? I ask because the bests like Rice/Carter were not particularly blazing and there are plenty of dominant players that are not particularly quick (ie Chad Johnson, etc.).

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 10:16 am #61550

          ut–what would you consider reasonable speed for a db/wr/rb at the D1 level? The pro level? I ask because the bests like Rice/Carter were not particularly blazing and there are plenty of dominant players that are not particularly quick (ie Chad Johnson, etc.).

          well ill tell you want my uncle said who is a pro scout, 4.5 is ave and anything 4.4< is great. reasonable speed for skill position also depends how big you are for example take usc tall wr he only runs 4.5 but hes 6'5 and 220, where as a guy like santana moss is 5'8 180 he needs to run 4.2-4.3. you always have those players who are just skillful- can catch etc, but as a team speed matter if not you wouldn't have teams timing 40 and looking for faster athletes on all levels.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 10:22 am #61551

          ut: it's the context you put the measurables in.  The one thing they can't test, but have to take from game film is reaction to a dynamic environment and their speed and agility within that environment.

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 10:24 am #61552

          ut: it's the context you put the measurables in.  The one thing they can't test, but have to take from game film is reaction to a dynamic environment and their speed and agility within that environment.

          look like southern teams have strength too. lol

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 10:35 am #61553

          "It's about execution."  "Look at the offensive line"  "Look at the defensive line"

          Thank you Barry Alvarez!!!

          Wow, finally a set of announcers who get it.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 10:51 am #61554

          new game 0-0. outstanding athlete ability will keep you in the game.

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 10:52 am #61555

          my bad game over. look like speed to me. lol

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 10:54 am #61556

          Neither team was out of the game.  Nice interception that had nothing to do with athletic ability.  It was thrown to DB sitting in their zone with no one there.  Execution, not speed.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 10:54 am #61557

          You're blind.

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 10:56 am #61558

          Neither team was out of the game.  Nice interception that had nothing to do with athletic ability.  It was thrown to DB sitting in their zone with no one there.  Execution, not speed.

          ur blind, he displayed great balance on the sideline and if they were playing vs a fastest team he would have gotten caught.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 10:58 am #61559

          The current sack that occured wasn't speed, it was execution of delayed stunt and bad line blocking.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:00 am #61560

          [quote author="danimal9" date="1167715465"]
          Neither team was out of the game.  Nice interception that had nothing to do with athletic ability.  It was thrown to DB sitting in their zone with no one there.  Execution, not speed.

          ur blind, he displayed great balance on the sideline and if they were playing vs a fastest team he would have gotten caught.
          [/quote]

          Not saying he didn't display balance, but his underneath zone was empty and on the far side of the field.

          If OU was so fast they should have caught him!!!

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 11:02 am #61561

          [quote author="utfootball4" date="1167715588"]
          [quote author="danimal9" date="1167715465"]
          Neither team was out of the game.  Nice interception that had nothing to do with athletic ability.  It was thrown to DB sitting in their zone with no one there.  Execution, not speed.

          ur blind, he displayed great balance on the sideline and if they were playing vs a fastest team he would have gotten caught.
          [/quote]

          Not saying he didn't display balance, but his underneath zone was empty and on the far side of the field.

          If OU was so fast they should have caught him!!!
          [/quote]

          he almost did and he was covering his man. remember this the best team always win in OT.

        • Participant
          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:06 am #61562

          He was the DB running in the same general direction.

          The fact is the game is not all about speed, to say there is a strength or speed difference between these 2 teams is absurd and absolutely false.  It's a great game and 2 great teams.  Sometimes you have to look past the stereotyping.  Both teams executed well at times on both offense and defense better than the other team on the opposite side of the ball.  BSU did it more in the first half and OU better in the second.

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 11:07 am #61563

          He was the DB running in the same general direction.

          The fact is the game is not all about speed, to say there is a strength or speed difference between these 2 teams is absurd and absolutely false.  It's a great game and 2 great teams.  Sometimes you have to look past the stereotyping.  Both teams executed well at times on both offense and defense better than the other team on the opposite side of the ball.  BSU did it more in the first half and OU better in the second.

          he should have caught adrian, but thats what outstanding athlete ability does for you.

        • Participant
          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:08 am #61564

          Nice run by adrian, but the blocking was the key again.  Only the safety from the far side touched him before the end zone.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:10 am #61565

          Not sure about the first 2 play calls from BSU.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:12 am #61566

          Thank you again announcers.  Call it what it is though,  bad coaching.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:13 am #61567

          Game or Not UT?

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 11:14 am #61568

          Thank you again announcers.  Call it what it is though,  bad coaching.

          thats what happen when u r playing vs better athletes – you have to get cute and do trick plays.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:15 am #61569

          They didn't use them all game, albiet they end of reg play needed to be ran because situation dictates it.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:17 am #61570

          Wouldn't have made that call either.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:19 am #61571

          Bring OSU-BSU.  Nice play call on that one though. pass action run.

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 11:19 am #61572

          Bring OSU-BSU.  Nice play call on that one though. pass action run.

          thats BS..

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:21 am #61573

          Faster team wins right?  With all things equal technical execution wins (Tellez)!!!!

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          utfootball4 on January 2, 2007 at 11:23 am #61574

          Faster team wins right?  With all things equal technical execution wins (Tellez)!!!!

          dude give me break, they did all the tricky bc they need they couldn't go punch for punch. we have another match up soon, lsu vs Notre dame.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:26 am #61575

          Dude, no way, that's probably a blow out.  ND is hype, just like a lot of big schools, but LSU has a tremendous team, that executes well.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 11:31 am #61576

          Dude, OU went with reverses that didn't work early on too.  BSU's trick plays did not work.  The last play is technically not a trick play, but it is a misdirection.  The stats really indicate how well BSU went toe to toe with OU.  Even in turnovers, 25 yard difference in yardage, number of trick plays that did not work on both sides 3 for OU, 4 for BSU.  Completely stopping Adrian Peterson for 4Qs by BSU, didn't do it on OT play, but for rest of game they did.  OU held Ian Johnson in check.  Pretty even game, great ending, both teams deserved to win. I just don't want to hear about this speed crap again, because they were pretty equal in terms of strength and speed.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 2, 2007 at 12:42 pm #61577

          "without a doubt the greatest sporting triumph in the history of the state of Idaho."  Some AP Report. 

          Well what about Idaho's Dan O'Brien Olympic Gold Medalist, Multiple World Champion in the Decathlon and former WR holder?

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          mortac8 on January 2, 2007 at 9:52 pm #61578

          That game was awesome.  That statue of liberty play is the same play that I run when playing ball with my dog.

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          CoachKW on January 3, 2007 at 8:57 am #61579

          The right teams are in the BCS championship game.  Beating Oklahoma (whose defense was clueless and couldn't adjust) isn't the same as beating THE Ohio State University of even USC or Florida for that matter.

          Having said all that I have long been in favor of a playoff system in NCAA 1-A football.  The problem is this: who would you include?  Conference winners?  Top ___ teams?  1-AA and DII and III seem to have a good system. 

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          Daniel Andrews on January 3, 2007 at 9:21 am #61580

          I haven't felt there is a single best team this season, there is no team like 95 Nebraska or 01 Miami.  I am definitely not sold on THE Ohio State University, watched the Illinois game and I was disappointed that I couldn't bash the Illini fans surrounding me for playing the buckeyes so well. 

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          utfootball4 on January 3, 2007 at 9:23 am #61581

          I haven't felt there is a single best team this season, there is no team like 95 Nebraska or 01 Miami.  I am definitely not sold on THE Ohio State University, watched the Illinois game and I was disappointed that I couldn't bash the Illini fans surrounding me for playing the buckeyes so well. 

          as much as i hate the big 10, osu is probably the best team, look at there offense soo many weapons and team speed.

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          utfootball4 on January 4, 2007 at 9:45 am #61582

          I haven't felt there is a single best team this season, there is no team like 95 Nebraska or 01 Miami.  I am definitely not sold on THE Ohio State University, watched the Illinois game and I was disappointed that I couldn't bash the Illini fans surrounding me for playing the buckeyes so well. 

          what do you think about lsu team speed?  they look big and strong but not as fast as some sec teams also there guys never test well at the combine – i know moffit dont focus on testing.

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          Daniel Andrews on January 4, 2007 at 10:19 am #61583

          Haven't watched much of the game tonight, but ND was beating them up running the ball.  They are definitely faster than ND, but as far as big and strong, they are like every other top echelon team, they balance strength and speed with execution.

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          utfootball4 on January 4, 2007 at 10:31 am #61584

          Haven't watched much of the game tonight, but ND was beating them up running the ball.  They are definitely faster than ND, but as far as big and strong, they are like every other top echelon team, they balance strength and speed with execution.

          they are big and strong dont know about fast.

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