hey mike i see ur sample speed end workout in the faq section 2(80,100,120), i was wondering what you thought about CF method of only 1-3 speed end runs??
speed end
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Participant
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KeymasterFor speed endurance I typically use 4 or less during the early season and as few as 1 later in the year. For short speed endurance I'll use as many as 6 runs.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
im sorry the workout you have in faq is 3x(80-100-120).. also how do you go about progressing your speed end once indoor is done for a pure 100m guy? if you can examples plz..
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Keymaster
I use a double or triple peak macrocycle so once indoors is over I actually go back to focusing on acceleration development (and to a lesser extent general fitness / work capacity) for a short period of time and I don't return to serious speed endurance for about 4 weeks.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
How long is your season Mike, how long from the end of indoors do you have until the end of the season?
Depending on what the athlete qualifies for during the indoor and outdoor seasons the time between the last indoor meet and the last outdoor meet could range from 10 to 16 weeks.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
For speed endurance I typically use 4 or less during the early season and as few as 1 later in the year. For short speed endurance I'll use as many as 6 runs.
ok im lost, so u only use for 4 runs for example 4×120 so would the above volume be too much 3x(80-100-120)
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Keymaster
ok im lost, so u only use for 4 runs for example 4×120 so would the above volume be too much 3x(80-100-120)
Yeah, right now (a couple weeks left in the season) my quality SE sessions consist of 4 or less runs. For example tomorrow my short sprinters have 150m, 120m, 90m out of blocks with full recovery (15+ minutes). I'd up the volume under normal circumstances (kids @ USMA don't seem to handle higher volumes of anything very well because of all the other military and physical education training that they do).
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
r u doing a short to long program with them..
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Keymaster
Short to long.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
damn i must be moving slow bc u r already doin 90-150..
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Keymaster
Last week we did some acceleration development / short speed endurance on Monday 6 x 50m and on Wednesday we did a 170 and 140 with 20+ minutes of recovery. Friday (pre-meet) we did 3 x 15m, 2 x 25m, 1 x 35m.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
now mike do u believe whatever the athlete has 17days out is what they got and the training should be geared towards recovery and tech stuff??
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Keymaster
Pretty much….it's just a matter of fine tuning at that point. It's kinda like a sculpture that's 95% finished…..you're really just trying not to screw it up.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
so for example if you have an athlete that has 2 more meets before conference this should be the last hard work week follow with 2 week taper.. for example look below:
week 6: last hard week
mon: 450m
wed: 350mweek 7: first taper week
mon: 310m-last mod day
wed: 180m-stay sharpeweek 8: conference
mon: 120m
thur: premeet startsweek 9: nationals
mon: 90m -
Keymaster
Are those numbers total volume (i.e. 400m on week 6 Monday) or are you indicating one hard rep?
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Are those numbers total volume (i.e. 400m on week 6 Monday) or are you indicating one hard rep?
that is the volume of speed work for that day, also those numbers are not my workouts just examples..
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Participant
Mike,
You mentioned doing a 170 and a 140?
Why not a 150 and a 120. Or a 180 and a 150?
The reason I am asking this is because I would find it hard to gauge where myself or an athlete is based on such odd distances since they I would rarely use them? Do you develope any kind of performance models based on say 120's or 150's that you can use on athletes? -
Participant
those distances are not really odd..
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Keymaster
Mike,
You mentioned doing a 170 and a 140?
Why not a 150 and a 120. Or a 180 and a 150?
The reason I am asking this is because I would find it hard to gauge where myself or an athlete is based on such odd distances since they I would rarely use them? Do you develope any kind of performance models based on say 120's or 150's that you can use on athletes?Well the week preceding that workout we did (150m, 120m, 90m). I wanted to lengthen the rep distance but decrease the total volume. I didn't feel they were ready for 180m yet so I went with 170m and 140m. As for performance predictors I do sometimes use 150s, 300s, and 375s to predict performance.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
so for example if you have an athlete that has 2 more meets before conference this should be the last hard work week follow with 2 week taper.. for example look below:
week 6: last hard week
mon: 450m
wed: 350mweek 7: first taper week
mon: 310m-last mod day
wed: 180m-stay sharpeweek 8: conference
mon: 120m
thur: premeet startsweek 9: nationals
mon: 90mhow does this look mike?
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Participant
[quote author="QUIKAZHELL" date="1139799802"]
Mike,
You mentioned doing a 170 and a 140?
Why not a 150 and a 120. Or a 180 and a 150?
The reason I am asking this is because I would find it hard to gauge where myself or an athlete is based on such odd distances since they I would rarely use them? Do you develope any kind of performance models based on say 120's or 150's that you can use on athletes?Well the week preceding that workout we did (150m, 120m, 90m). I wanted to lengthen the rep distance but decrease the total volume. I didn't feel they were ready for 180m yet so I went with 170m and 140m. As for performance predictors I do sometimes use 150s, 300s, and 375s to predict performance.
[/quote]
Makes Sense.
How do you use 150's and 300's top predict performance? Do you use the mercier calculator by any chance to predict a 200 based on a 150? And a 400 based on a 300? Or do you have another method? I have found when I can run 16.4 in a 150 I am ready to go 22.20. -
Keymaster
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1139785831"]
so for example if you have an athlete that has 2 more meets before conference this should be the last hard work week follow with 2 week taper.. for example look below:week 6: last hard week
mon: 450m
wed: 350mweek 7: first taper week
mon: 310m-last mod day
wed: 180m-stay sharpeweek 8: conference
mon: 120m
thur: premeet startsweek 9: nationals
mon: 90mhow does this look mike?
[/quote]It looks fine but I personally increase the week 8 volume slightly.ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
Makes Sense.
How do you use 150's and 300's top predict performance? Do you use the mercier calculator by any chance to predict a 200 based on a 150? And a 400 based on a 300? Or do you have another method? I have found when I can run 16.4 in a 150 I am ready to go 22.20.Mercier calculator seems to be pretty accurate but I've basically just come to know what times in the 150m and 300m will equate to for the 200m and 400m.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
I've had my long sprinters do as much as 1200m of special endurance work. My short sprinters have been maxing out at around 500m of speed / speed endurance work. In general though the volumes have been less for both groups.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
I've had my long sprinters do as much as 1200m of special endurance work. My short sprinters have been maxing out at around 500m of speed / speed endurance work. In general though the volumes have been less for both groups.
So as a 100-200m guy, why do i have 1800m of special endurance to do on saturday. 2x3x300m.
I have a feeling that i might end up doing only 4 or even 3. Is this volume too much mike? -
Participant
[quote]I've had my long sprinters do as much as 1200m of special endurance work. My short sprinters have been maxing out at around 500m of speed / speed endurance work. In general though the volumes have been less for both groups.
So as a 100-200m guy, why do i have 1800m of special endurance to do on saturday. 2x3x300m.
I have a feeling that i might end up doing only 4 or even 3. Is this volume too much mike?
[/quote]
The session youve mentioned is intensive tempo. Different goal than special endurance and the volume is typically much higher and intensity is much lower. -
Keymaster
So as a 100-200m guy, why do i have 1800m of special endurance to do on saturday. 2x3x300m.
I have a feeling that i might end up doing only 4 or even 3. Is this volume too much mike?For my athletes (those that have trained under my methods for a while) that would be too much for special endurance. This is especially true for my USMA athletes who can't handle the same training loads as other athletes due to a variety of academy / military related issues (lack of sleep, mandatory PE classes, military training, etc). I've seen coaches use that much volume and be ok but it wouldn't work under my circumstances.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
The session youve mentioned is intensive tempo. Different goal than special endurance and the volume is typically much higher and intensity is much lower
Nah quick, i should have been more specific. 2 sets of 3reps, 300m at 95%. The rest is 7-10mins between reps and 15mins between sets.
For my athletes (those that have trained under my methods for a while) that would be too much for special endurance. This is especially true for my USMA athletes who can't handle the same training loads as other athletes due to a variety of academy / military related issues (lack of sleep, mandatory PE classes, military training, etc). I've seen coaches use that much volume and be ok but it wouldn't work under my circumstances
Well it will be my first special endurance session for the year, do you think the volume is too much for this first session?
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Participant
[quote]The session youve mentioned is intensive tempo. Different goal than special endurance and the volume is typically much higher and intensity is much lower
Nah quick, i should have been more specific. 2 sets of 3reps, 300m at 95%. The rest is 7-10mins between reps and 15mins between sets.
For my athletes (those that have trained under my methods for a while) that would be too much for special endurance. This is especially true for my USMA athletes who can't handle the same training loads as other athletes due to a variety of academy / military related issues (lack of sleep, mandatory PE classes, military training, etc). I've seen coaches use that much volume and be ok but it wouldn't work under my circumstances
Well it will be my first special endurance session for the year, do you think the volume is too much for this first session?
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Flash have you done the session you mentioned? At the intensity you mentioned 95% with 7-10 rest you will not get past the first set and 3 reps is being generous. I am also willing to bet there are very few athletes who could do 4 reps straight with 15 mins rest @ 95%, if it is REALLY 95% of there personal best at that point in the season. I know that is not the workout you mentioned I am just stating what I have experianced and witnessed firsthand on both accounts. -
Keymaster
In my opin
Well it will be my first special endurance session for the year, do you think the volume is too much for this first session?
I think 1800m of special endurance would be far too much. In fact, as Quik as mentioned it would actually cease to be TRUE special endurance work after about the third or fourth rep.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Flash have you done the session you mentioned? At the intensity you mentioned 95% with 7-10 rest you will not get past the first set and 3 reps is being generous. I am also willing to bet there are very few athletes who could do 4 reps straight with 15 mins rest @ 95%, if it is REALLY 95% of there personal best at that point in the season. I know that is not the workout you mentioned I am just stating what I have experianced and witnessed firsthand on both accounts
Quick i am a pretty tough guy although everyone says im lazy but thats beyond the point. I believe i will do 4 reps, i think i can pull off at least three, i'll update you guys. It is not 95% of my pb right now, i havent done any time trials to know my pb, but im supposed to go with what i feel is 90-95%.
I think 1800m of special endurance would be far too much. In fact, as Quik as mentioned it would actually cease to be TRUE special endurance work after about the third or fourth rep.
I agree, so im going to see if i can do 4 reps.
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Keymaster
This is a pretty complex question but in a nutshell I have them do:
Day 1: Max V–> Short Speed Endurance–> Speed Endurance (Special Endurance 2; over the course of the comp phase: intensity increases, rep distance increases; rest interval increases; total volume decreases.
Day 3: Acceleration development (as described in peaking thread for pre-meet days).ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
hey mike, what do your athletes do during those 15 minutes between reps?
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Keymaster
During the compeitive season I'll often have the long sprinters rest as much as 30 minutes. During this time, they put on their warm-ups and rest. Some times I have them do a short slow jog immediately following the rep.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
hey guys, well, saturday went well, i did 3 x 300m. I could have done a fourth one but i said nah. I asked a coach to time my 300s when i came to do the second one, i came in at 33.03, and the third one was 34.22.
One the third one there was this major headwind on the backstraight and i really fought to come out of the straight into the bend. It seems the coach went ahead and timed my first 300 anyway, i came in at 32.xxx something. So i say im in somewhat of a good shape for now. any comments?
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Keymaster
If those times (or the 300m measurements) are correct it indicates that you're capable of running under 46.5 seconds in the 400m.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
If those times (or the 300m measurements) are correct it indicates that you're capable of running under 46.5 seconds in the 400m.
Thats great, but dude, im a 100-200m sprinter. Any idea what these times could suggest in my 100m/200m? Well they were hand timed so i guess it cant be that accurate.
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Keymaster
Welll if the times are right you should probably start rethinking your event…
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Flash what are your PR's and what is your age?
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Participant
Are those hand times from an actual meet or training?
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Participant
Yeah they were, that was last year around this time, believe me those times are somewhat bogus, but i have to consider them pr's cause i dont have any others. Right now im alot stronger than ive ever been, cause im actually doing weights now. And i believe faster.
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Participant
Yeah they were, that was last year around this time, believe me those times are somewhat bogus, but i have to consider them pr's cause i dont have any others. Right now im alot stronger than ive ever been, cause im actually doing weights now. And i believe faster.
You never FAT?
What state are you from and how many meets did you run in?
Why did you not run in the state or national meet? -
Participant
hey guys, sorry to bother y'all on this thread again, but i dont have another competition until late April or so, besides im self coaching right now.
I just would like to have an idea as to where i might be at, so i can work towards something. Let's say i ran between 32.9 and 33.2, what kind of times might i be able to run about now in the two sprints 100/200m.
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Participant
[quote]You never FAT?
What state are you from and how many meets did you run in?
Why did you not run in the state or national meet?Well that will be due to the fact that im from and still reside in the country of St. Lucia, in the caribbean Quick.
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I see.
Nice to have people from all over the globe on this forum!
Let us know how you progress. Best of luck.
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