Speed Endurance "Stacking"

    Posted In: Sprints

        • Participant
          fabio on November 12, 2003 at 12:10 am #8702

          today i had a speed endurance for the first time at my indoor track and have found that the turns are WAY to sharp to go full speed and when going around them i am slowing down noticably even for the firsy, most fresh run.

          so i am asking this…i Have read this in Brent Mcfarlene's "The science of speed and hurdling"(fourth edition) that when he has limited space, he used "speed endurance stacking" which is for example, 2x5x60m with 30 seconds rest each rep and 4 minutes rest each set at 95-100%. Would this kind of endurance training have the same effect as say, 6×150 at 95-100%?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on November 12, 2003 at 10:07 am #23397

          Sounds good to me. I've used this before both with high school athletes confined to a gymnasium during the frigid winters of Buffalo and also with athletes from other sports as it seems to be very much like the demands of most ball sports.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          obrien on November 13, 2003 at 6:24 am #23398

          I have gone up to 120's indoor. The turns dont seem to be as bad if you go around 80m though. I just ran about 1/4 turn on each end and the strait, took 30sec. rest and went again as you were suggesting.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on November 14, 2003 at 9:34 pm #23399

          Obrien-
          Good point. Also, if you have a banked turn on an indoor track, you could use 1/2 or 1/4 of the bank turn to actually help you accelerate into the straight.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          bo-reed on November 16, 2003 at 12:09 am #23400

          If no bank turn how about starting and measuring your distance from the furthest lane at the top of a turn and sling shotting to lane one – this will generate the body to lean which forces a sort of g-force and wallah you are whipped with great speed around the turn – or not.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on November 17, 2003 at 10:44 am #23401

          [i]Originally posted by bo reed[/i]
          If no bank turn how about starting and measuring your distance from the furthest lane at the top of a turn and sling shotting to lane one – this will generate the body to lean which forces a sort of g-force and wallah you are whipped with great speed around the turn – or not.

          Sounds like a good idea to me but I can't say I've ever tried it.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 13, 2004 at 11:10 am #23402

          [i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
          Sounds good to me. I've used this before both with high school athletes confined to a gymnasium during the frigid winters of Buffalo and also with athletes from other sports as it seems to be very much like the demands of most ball sports.

          If you use speed endurance stacking with distances that short early in the season, won't you end up peaking too early because of the short distances?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 13, 2004 at 12:09 pm #23403

          [i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]If you use speed endurance stacking with distances that short early in the season, won't you end up peaking too early because of the short distances?

          No because their will be what I call a rest-dependent intensity effect. That is, the shorter rest intervals will not allow the absolute intensity to get too high and as a result, the athlete will never really be doing true speed work (which might cause early peaking) despite the short length of the runs.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 13, 2004 at 6:23 pm #23404

          So in other words are you saying that no matter how short the distance is, it is conceivable that you can turn it into a speed endurance workout, if the recovery is short enough?

          Secondly, I was thinking about starting speed endurance work now until peak time. Would this work, and if so, how could I attack it?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 14, 2004 at 1:25 pm #23405

          [i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
          So in other words are you saying that no matter how short the distance is, it is conceivable that you can turn it into a speed endurance workout, if the recovery is short enough?

          Yes.

          Secondly, I was thinking about starting speed endurance work now until peak time. Would this work, and if so, how could I attack it?

          This would work and how you'd attack it would be dependent on which athletes you're speaking of as well as your training philosophies (long and short sprinters may want to follow different progressions of speed endurance training).

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 14, 2004 at 6:34 pm #23406

          Originally posted by mike

          Secondly, I was thinking about starting speed endurance work now until peak time. Would this work, and if so, how could I attack it?

          This would work and how you'd attack it would be dependent on which athletes you're speaking of as well as your training philosophies (long and short sprinters may want to follow different progressions of speed endurance training). [/quote]mike,

          Could you elaborate a little more? Can you give me examples and/or tell me what you mean for both short AND long sprinters?

        • Participant
          pete on April 15, 2004 at 2:55 am #23407

          [i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
          …..the shorter rest intervals will not allow the absolute intensity to get too high and as a result, the athlete will never really be doing true speed work (which might cause early peaking) despite the short length of the runs.

          So when using speed end stacking should as described in this thread and the "Mechanisms of Fatigue…" thread should each rep be kept at a pace you can finish at or is it okay to do something like 3*60m with 90s between with the first at all out, the second two tenths slower, and the third another two tenths slower?

          [Mike: EDITED QUOTE BOX STRUCTURE FOR CLARITY]

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 15, 2004 at 3:04 am #23408

          I think if you're doing speed endurance then it's ok if you don't hit all of your goal times because of the minimal recovery involved.

        • Participant
          pete on April 15, 2004 at 3:35 am #23409

          [i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
          I think if you're doing speed endurance then it's ok if you don't hit all of your goal times because of the minimal recovery involved.

          I understand and think that it is unlikely you will run at 100% for each rep but I am asking whether each rep should be as all out as possible or the first reps should be paced.

        • Member
          400stud on April 15, 2004 at 4:56 am #23410

          I would think as fast as possible since the fatigue will automatically drop intensity anyways.

        • Participant
          pete on April 15, 2004 at 5:19 am #23411

          Right, but let's say because of fatigue it goes 100%, 97%, 95% in a set of 3*60m (obviously percents and workout are hypothetical). Would it be better to do all of the reps at 97%?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 15, 2004 at 6:01 am #23412

          I'd say no. Do each one as fast as possible like 400 said because what you are trying to accomplish is teaching your body to stay at relative full speed for as long as possible.

        • Member
          400stud on April 15, 2004 at 9:07 am #23413

          Ditto Gov.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 15, 2004 at 10:33 am #23414

          When would you do a workout like that anyway, at peak time or earlier in the season?

        • Member
          400stud on April 15, 2004 at 7:52 pm #23415

          I say earlier in the season because of CNS recovery issues. That's a hard workout.

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