Speed help for good long jumper

    Posted In: Jumps

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on October 26, 2006 at 6:23 am #12302

          Hi all…

          i am 23 years old and have been long jumping for 3 years…my PB is 7.50m from last season.

          now i am going to tell you my major stats and then tell you a problem i hope you can help me fix.

          im, 6'1, 180lbs, 7%bf

          personal bests,

          clean – 295lbs
          parellel squat – 400lbs
          step up – 280lbs
          standing vertical jump – 36inches
          1 step vertical jump – 42inches
          standing long jump – 3.29cm
          standing triple – 9.80m
          standing start 12 bounds – 40m
          10 step long jump – 6.90m

          now, theirs my major stats and i think they are all pretty damn good, so many people tell me…but he's my problem, i have never broke 11.20 in the 100m and never broke 7.20 in the 60m. Pretty slow really.

          According to the above stats i would think i have a high precentage of fast twitch fibres, i have a great coach and do speed work alot. Could anyone tell me why i dont seem to be able to get faster and how much further might i jump at this speed.

          Thankyou guys.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on October 26, 2006 at 6:26 am #58235

          ur numbers look pretty good, and ur times are not too bad for a jumper.  when you say ur coach do lots of speed – what do mean by "lots".  if you are running for university theres not much you can do but follow your coaches advice.

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on October 26, 2006 at 6:30 am #58236

          Well…

          im pretty flexible with training…i can pretty do what i want…i work very hard though am really finding this problem hard to understand…my jumping, strength, power, plyos everything improves every season except my sprint times…i just dont get it…

          i do speed from day one of the season , once a week until comp cycle and then twice or 3 times as every becomes faster and faster in training….(lifts, plyos etc)

          i am chasing 8m and honestly i have had many fouls of over 7.70m so i know i have in me…but i really feel i need to get faster…and its just not happening…

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on October 26, 2006 at 6:32 am #58237

          Well…

          im pretty flexible with training…i can pretty do what i want…i work very hard though am really finding this problem hard to understand…my jumping, strength, power, plyos everything improves every season except my sprint times…i just dont get it…

          i do speed from day one of the season , once a week until comp cycle and then twice or 3 times as every becomes faster and faster in training….(lifts, plyos etc)

          i am chasing 8m and honestly i have had many fouls of over 7.70m so i know i have in me…but i really feel i need to get faster…and its just not happening…

          just reading ur post, u should be doing more speed work at least twice weekly, leaning towards three.

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on October 26, 2006 at 6:33 am #58238

          can YOU define speed work please…

          can you give me examples of workouts that you are talking about me doing twice or 3 times per week..

          thankyou.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on October 26, 2006 at 6:39 am #58239

          well since u r a jumper i would probably just do 2 speed days since u have other things to work on like jump work etc. 

          mon: acc development
          runs out to about 30m
          med throws

          fri: speed development
          runs out to 50-60m

          or

          flying 10 and 20's

          or

          sprint-float-sprint 30-30-30

          throws

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on October 26, 2006 at 6:45 am #58240

          thanks alot, i really like those sugestions…

          as it happens i will do flying work on a wed along with run throughs (1 run through, 1 fly 20m etc) and on a saturday i do the acceleration work…

          thanks alot.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on October 26, 2006 at 6:46 am #58241

          thanks alot, i really like those sugestions…

          as it happens i will do flying work on a wed along with run throughs (1 run through, 1 fly 20m etc) and on a saturday i do the acceleration work…

          thanks alot.

          most coaches when they do run way work esp full approach etc they dont do speed work with it, but it may work for u

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on October 26, 2006 at 9:38 am #58242

          You seem to be great at activities where low end power is at a premium but when more elastic qualities are required performance drops off. You'll definitely need to be faster to jump 8.00m. As UT said I'd devote two to three days a week doing short distance speed work (<60m) with full recovery and relatively low volumes.

          As for matching runway work with speed work I've done it before with good success. It's something I learned from Boo Schexnayder. On full approach run days I'd do 6-10 runs and then follow it up with 1-3 SFS runs of up to 90m.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on October 26, 2006 at 9:46 am #58243

          "You're right in assuming that what I was referring to is dependent on the phase we are in. If we're doing short approach work for the day on our technical sessions then we wouldn't typically do Vmax stuff on those days. If we do full approach work then we might finish with some sprint-float-sprint 90m repeats (2-3x) and then that would cover it for the week". {Mike}  for sure if you want to jump 26 feet you gonna need more speed maybe 10.6, what do  you think Mike?

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on October 26, 2006 at 6:20 pm #58244

          ok thanks alot mike…

          Ok, so i probably dont need to improve my low end power stuff anymore but i definitily need to imrove my elastic power…

          by this do you mean plyometric power, becuase, i think/thought i was very plyometric in that sense. But you are right, in virtually all the things im very good at it is one time power skills….where as in a sprint i need to have power in every stride, which i struggle with…but with that being said it doesnt make sense that it only takes me 12 bounds to get over 40m. My coach back home said that was excellent.

          How can i improve my elastic speed power more? thanks again guys.

        • Participant
          mortac8 on October 26, 2006 at 6:29 pm #58245

          ok thanks alot mike…

          Ok, so i probably dont need to improve my low end power stuff anymore but i definitily need to imrove my elastic power…

          by this do you mean plyometric power, becuase, i think/thought i was very plyometric in that sense. But you are right, in virtually all the things im very good at it is one time power skills….where as in a sprint i need to have power in every stride, which i struggle with…but with that being said it doesnt make sense that it only takes me 12 bounds to get over 40m. My coach back home said that was excellent.

          How can i improve my elastic speed power more? thanks again guys.

          Ground contact time for 12 bounds from a stand are a heck of a lot longer than long jump takeoffs from full speed.  The 12 bound test is still decoupled from true elastic strength at high speeds.  If you want long jump speed I would aim at a flying-20 or flying-30 test.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on October 26, 2006 at 6:49 pm #58246

          for sure if you want to jump 26 feet you gonna need more speed maybe 10.6, what do  you think Mike?

          Projectile motion numbers are pretty clear cut. To jump 8m you'll need to takeff at about 10m/s velocity. This roughly equates to a 3.8-3.9s 30m time and a 10.3.-10.7 100m time. The 100m time is obviously more dependent on speed endurance abilities but that's about the range you'll need to run.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          lorien on October 26, 2006 at 7:05 pm #58247

          Speed on the track does not always correlate to speed on the board. While I agree you have some work to do regarding speed (getting under 11s at 100m is a good start), much can be achieved by fine tuning your approach run. I know many fairly slow jumpers that still mange decent speed over the board (well over 10m/s) by having their approach run suit them perfectly ??? basically you just have to run fast the last 6 steps.

          Slow jumpers often, paradoxically, try to run too fast in the beginning and in the middle or the approach. Perhaps they are too conscious about their problem, thus consciously overcompensate by effort. A great deal can be corrected by proper drive in the beginning and in the middle of the approach, thus saving the momentum to the board (speed on the board might be substantially higher by the same person if this is done correctly). 

          You can play around with a full long approach run, but where you vary the number of steps for ???turning on the momentum???: Last two steps, four steps, six steps, eight steps and ten steps. An idea would be to start with two and four steps (really feel the power in them), then try the same with eight and even ten steps (kind of an over distance, significantly more difficult), and then return to six steps that now should feel significantly easier than without the excursion into longer ones. A word of caution thou, ???turning on the momentum??? doesn???t mean struggling; it should feel good and elastic, hence the importance in patience during the beginning and the middle, yet sufficient speed so that you don???t feel the need to over-acceleration at the end.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on October 26, 2006 at 8:05 pm #58248

          Lorien-
          I agree with EVERYTHING you said but my impression was that to be jumping 7.70m he must already be bringing almost all of his speed to the board (unless his true speed values are masked by poor speed endurance in his 100m PR). Based on Hay's research of elite long jumpers (including Powell, Lewis, and Myricks) the best long jumpers in the world are typically at around 92-96% of their top end speed at the instant of takeoff. I believe Lewis typically acheived 93-94% of his top-end running speed (as taken from 100m splits) when he was on the runway. Powell was slightly higher. So even if you are at the high end of that spectrum (95-96% maxV-to-approach run conversion speed) you still can't jump very far without the requisite speed. While I don't think the 100m is the best indicator for approach speed (I think 30m is better) I think his numbers indicate that the source of his problem may be more his capabilities than anything mechanistic. To tell for sure I'd really have to see videos of the approach run and maybe get some 30m times but this is where I'm leaning based on the info he gave. I would venture to say that there's never been an 8m long jumper ever who couldn't run at least a 3.90 30m dash. In the end we can't really separate the speed (over a dash or in the approach) from the mechanics, tempo, rhythm, etc that are associated with it.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          mxtj on October 27, 2006 at 2:21 am #58249

          mmmm very very interesting port this guy jumops great congratulations 7.50 m is a great mark, about the speed Mike, if he is running a 11.20 in the 100 m, yo uhtink that maybe he is jumping that 7.50 with that speed because he comes to the board with a 90% + of his speed, but I'm a little confused about this:

          I know a guy of decathlon that run's the 100m in 11.80 and LJumps 6.60m, and I run the 100m in 11.50 my PB and I just Long Jump 6.10m in one ocassion I go to 6.21m, but why do this guy LJumps so far with less speed than mine and I can't pass the 6.50m ??

          Thanks

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on November 2, 2006 at 6:43 am #58250

          I know a guy of decathlon that run's the 100m in 11.80 and LJumps 6.60m, and I run the 100m in 11.50 my PB and I just Long Jump 6.10m in one ocassion I go to 6.21m, but why do this guy LJumps so far with less speed than mine and I can't pass the 6.50m ??

          I can think of a couple scenarios that would explain this:
          *He has a higher top-end speed which is hidden by poor speed endurance, hence the slower 100m time.
          *He brings a greater percentage of his top-end speed in to the takeoff.
          *His takeoff angle is significantly higher than yours.
          *He is far more efficient at controlling forward rotation at takeoff and during flight which gives him a more advantageous landing position.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          flight05 on November 7, 2006 at 6:08 am #58251

          Hi all…

          i am 23 years old and have been long jumping for 3 years…my PB is 7.50m from last season.

          now i am going to tell you my major stats and then tell you a problem i hope you can help me fix.

          im, 6'1, 180lbs, 7%bf

          personal bests,

          clean – 295lbs
          parellel squat – 400lbs
          step up – 280lbs
          standing vertical jump – 36inches
          1 step vertical jump – 42inches
          standing long jump – 3.29cm
          standing triple – 9.80m
          standing start 12 bounds – 40m
          10 step long jump – 6.90m

          now, theirs my major stats and i think they are all pretty damn good, so many people tell me…but he's my problem, i have never broke 11.20 in the 100m and never broke 7.20 in the 60m. Pretty slow really.

          According to the above stats i would think i have a high precentage of fast twitch fibres, i have a great coach and do speed work alot. Could anyone tell me why i dont seem to be able to get faster and how much further might i jump at this speed.

          Thankyou guys.

          how fast do u run the 30m in tho?
          cuz my numbers in the 100 and 200 are pathetic but my 30 is fast (the length of an approach basically)

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on November 7, 2006 at 6:15 am #58252

          well, last year at my nationals electronically timed i ran 10.1 MPS over the last 10 metres. Most 8m guys run over 10.4 MPS so i need to get faster.

          Hand timed over 30m from first step down my best is 3.32

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