[pete]

pete on October 9, 2003 at 7:06 am #8628

For my split run and later SE sessions I think I'll either be doing sessions looking like:

2*split 300/all out 300 with full rest between reps (I found that it took me about 35 minutes to fully recover)

or what I did today which was:

180/120 split, 10 minutes, 120/80 split, 8 minutes, 100, 8 minutes, 100, 8 minutes, 100 all at approximate 300m pace (timing not available).

The reason I'm doing the split runs/SE is mainly to use it as a general training method to develop work capacity, strength, posture, etc. and a less major reason being because I assume trasitioning from this into slightly overdistance speed endurance once its time to do so will work well. What do you guys think about the above session? I've heard of 3/2/1 sessions keeping at 300 pace but does it work with split runs?

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on October 9, 2003 at 7:45 am #22637

i do my split runs during the first 4 weeks special prep and last 4 weeks i do special endurance 2 (3×300 90-95% 15-20 rest)i like to keep it simple for the split runs…

today i did…
200-24.7 /100-13.1 =37.8
200-25.7 /100-13.1 =38.8
200-25.9 /100-13.5 =39.4

90 seconds between the 200 and 100 and 7 mins between sets. and i dothese in my trainers (nike shox)

[400stud]

400stud on October 9, 2003 at 12:41 pm #22638

Quik –

You think it's bad to do Split runs for 8 weeks and then SE2 for 4 b4 going into SE1 and Pure Speed End.? That's what I was thinking….

Int. Tempo – 4 weeks
Split Runs – 8 weeks
SE2 – 4 weeks
SE1 – 8 weeks
Speed End./SE1 (rotating) – rest of season

Thoughts?

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on October 9, 2003 at 9:43 pm #22639

I have 2 concerns:

1. What exactly is the purpose of split runs? If you are doing 180/120 or whatever is it just a break from the normal 300 repeats?

2. I thought SE1 came before SE2. I thought SE2 was to be done the last part of the season. But from my understanding of what you just put 400Stud, that's not the case. Please explain.

[400stud]

400stud on October 9, 2003 at 10:46 pm #22640

It all depends. I like to blend from one aspect to the other as I have listed above..

Int. Tempo –> Split Runs –> SE2 –> SE1/Speed Endurance

However, during peak/taper periods I might throw in SE2 to help mentally and physically get me ready for the vigors of multi-day/round meets as is the case with most big meets. I tried this method this past summer and I noticed how untired I was after running 3 rounds in one day of 3 different events, plus getting up early the next day and doing a finals round.

However, many disagree with this method and eliminate SE2 after it is used early on in the year.

I think the whole thought-process of going from one type of workout to another is the CNS fatigue associated with each. Int. Tempo has the least b/c it is run the slowest, and then split runs are increasing CNS fatigue and so on and so forth with SE1/speed endurance being the most demanding. It's all based on how things are planned. I think things would change, however, with a short sprinter, but I'm not for sure.

Mike? Quik?

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on October 10, 2003 at 9:38 am #22641

i do it pretty much the same way you described. But remember i also run the 400 on occasion usually a relay. And indoors this year im on our DMR which will trying ot qualify for NCAA'S.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 10, 2003 at 10:32 am #22642

[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
I think the whole thought-process of going from one type of workout to another is the CNS fatigue associated with each. Int. Tempo has the least b/c it is run the slowest, and then split runs are increasing CNS fatigue and so on and so forth with SE1/speed endurance being the most demanding. It's all based on how things are planned. I think things would change, however, with a short sprinter, but I'm not for sure.

Well said :yes:.

ELITETRACK Founder

[400stud]

400stud on October 11, 2003 at 5:59 am #22643

Gracias 😉

[pete]

pete on October 11, 2003 at 8:08 pm #22644

DaGovernor,
addressing 1:
The purpose of the way I'm doing split runs is to work at high speed over 300m before you have the endurance to run the full 300.

Since nobody critiqued does that mean nobody saw a problem with the session?

[400stud]

400stud on October 11, 2003 at 9:37 pm #22645

Nope

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 14, 2003 at 3:30 am #22646

[i]Originally posted by pete[/i]
DaGovernor,
addressing 1:
The purpose of the way I'm doing split runs is to work at high speed over 300m before you have the endurance to run the full 300.

Since nobody critiqued does that mean nobody saw a problem with the session?

I think what you posted is fine. I do have a question though. Is this for GPP or SPP? If so, I think the intensity might be a little high. You might want to consider lowering the rest interval (especially if it's 35 minutes) and dropping the intensity a tad. The latter session looks appropriate for SPP but the first session you posted would seem to be more appropriate for comp phase.

ELITETRACK Founder

[pete]

pete on October 14, 2003 at 4:35 am #22647

Thanks for replying Mike.

I am in SPP. For comp phase wouldn't I be doing specific overdistance speed/special endurance (i.e. 120s or 220s) though?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 14, 2003 at 10:21 am #22648

[i]Originally posted by pete[/i]
Thanks for replying Mike.

I am in SPP. For comp phase wouldn't I be doing specific overdistance speed/special endurance (i.e. 120s or 220s) though?

Yep. But the second session you gave is pretty much just that other than the first two repititions (split runs). The rest intervals (8 minutes) would indicate you must have been / will be running at maximal or near maximal intensities. If this is not the case, then ignore what I said :tumble:.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on October 14, 2003 at 10:38 pm #22649

[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
It all depends. I like to blend from one aspect to the other as I have listed above..

Int. Tempo –> Split Runs –> SE2 –> SE1/Speed Endurance

However, during peak/taper periods I might throw in SE2 to help mentally and physically get me ready for the vigors of multi-day/round meets as is the case with most big meets. I tried this method this past summer and I noticed how untired I was after running 3 rounds in one day of 3 different events, plus getting up early the next day and doing a finals round.

However, many disagree with this method and eliminate SE2 after it is used early on in the year.

I think the whole thought-process of going from one type of workout to another is the CNS fatigue associated with each. Int. Tempo has the least b/c it is run the slowest, and then split runs are increasing CNS fatigue and so on and so forth with SE1/speed endurance being the most demanding. It's all based on how things are planned. I think things would change, however, with a short sprinter, but I'm not for sure.

Mike? Quik?

So for these split runs, does the distance have to be 300 meters, or can the distance vary?

If you were to do a split run, what is the range of recovery time between reps (i.e. 180/120)?

You said you may throw in some SE2 when you have to run rounds. Would this be done the week of or one or more of the weeks leading up to?

You brought up a bunch of questions for me to ask. When are you supposed to start SE1? Speed endurance? And if I am not mistaken you said SE2 is done the last 4 weeks of SPP correct?

[400stud]

400stud on October 15, 2003 at 6:26 am #22650

Distances can vary, and volume would probably be a little higher or about the same as SE.

Rests b/t splits, I believe is short, like 5min. and then full recovery b/t reps. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I did SE2 the week of my peak meet this past summer and found that I was still in great shape at the meet (3 PR's, woo-hoo…sorry, memories 😀 ) But, knowing what I know now, I would probably do it the week before and if doing it the week of, would do it a few days before the meet (like on Mon. w/ a Sat. meet).

I start incorporating SE1 after SE2, but for short sprinters SE1 would probably come first.

I only do SE2 the last meso of SPP because of phase lenghts, etc. You just have to plan it accordingly.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on October 15, 2003 at 6:40 pm #22651

So are you saying that if you are a short sprinter then it's SE1 then SE2, and if you are a 400 runner it is SE2 then SE1? I'm a little confused about that.

[400stud]

400stud on October 15, 2003 at 6:58 pm #22652

Probably, based on the demands for each event.

[pete]

pete on October 15, 2003 at 11:02 pm #22653

[i]Originally posted by mike[/i]

Yep. But the second session you gave is pretty much just that other than the first two repititions (split runs). The rest intervals (8 minutes) would indicate you must have been / will be running at maximal or near maximal intensities. If this is not the case, then ignore what I said :tumble:.

I'm trying to keep these at the first 100 of a maximal 300m pace. But if these were at maximum wouldn't that session and other sessions of full recovery specific overdistance be better suited for comp phase and all out split runs with full rests be more suited for SPP (I'm a 100 200 runner)?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 16, 2003 at 9:01 am #22654

[i]Originally posted by pete[/i]
I'm trying to keep these at the first 100 of a maximal 300m pace. But if these were at maximum wouldn't that session and other sessions of full recovery specific overdistance be better suited for comp phase and all out split runs with full rests be more suited for SPP (I'm a 100 200 runner)?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but if it clarifies anything, my previous recommendations were given under the assumption you were a 400m sprinter.

ELITETRACK Founder