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    ELITETRACK
    You are at:Home»Forums»Training & Conditioning Discussion»Strength & Conditioning»Squats (Speed of them)??

    Squats (Speed of them)??

    Posted In: Strength & Conditioning

        • Participant
          cchams on December 28, 2003 at 3:07 am #8788

          Right now I'm doing Squats along with an olympic lift and some hamstring/quad curls 4 days a week, for the squats I'm going 5 sets of 5 reps… now I've read around this site that I should try and squat as fast as I can to build explosion, so I've been trying to do this… how long should it take (approx.) to finish a set of 5 reps? And also does what I am doing (above) sound alright, any reccomendations/comments? I'm already doing upperbody workouts so I don't need to worry about those, I have plenty of bench and pull ups in there, thanks a lot guys!

        • Participant
          Derrick Brito on December 28, 2003 at 3:27 am #24597

          yes i would like to know this too. though you probably shouldnt have to worry about it if youre going as fast as you can. or at least close to it.

        • Participant
          numba56 on December 28, 2003 at 5:30 am #24598

          Weight sessions shouldnt last more than an hour. No matter the weight you should be trying to move it as fast as you can. Drop the leg extensions and curls, if you want to do an exercise that develops the hamstring knee flexor portion do glute ham raises. 5×5 seems like a lot of volume, try to have a rep limit of 18, ie 6×3, and again no matter the weight try to move it as fast as you can, thats what their saying.

        • Participant
          matt on December 28, 2003 at 6:00 am #24599

          Speed of your squat will vary greatly on what % you are using. It also can vary from lifter to lifter cause of setup time and adjustments between reps. So really just push as hard as you can against the bar on each rep and don't worry so much about the actual time. Also, I assume you mean that you are working out 4 days a week, not squatting 4 days a week. Squatting 4 days a week is fine if your a Bulgarian but for most people I would not recommend it.

        • Participant
          cchams on December 28, 2003 at 7:44 am #24600

          Ok since I'm not Bulgarian lol and you don't reccomend squatting 4 times a week how many times a week should I be squatting, and why is 4 times a week too much, what does it do to you thats negative? Also as far as leg exercises go, on top of the Squat what are some ones that would benefit me most for the 100m (mostly starting, explosiveness) and how many reps/sets for these? What's wrong with quad/ham curls? Thanks a lot guys, greatly appreciate it..

        • Participant
          Derrick Brito on December 28, 2003 at 8:20 am #24601

          the squats probably have to do with overtraining. i think theyd recomend deadlifts and olympic lifts also for explosiveness. i know they arent just leg exercises, but yeah. i think they dont want usdoing leg curls and extensions because they are 1. machines and 2. isolation exercises. for track we want multi joint exercises.

        • Participant
          cchams on December 28, 2003 at 10:14 am #24602

          I see I see, seems logical enough, however Mike was the one who reccomended the squats and he defenitely knows his stuff, but if I could get some other opinions on how many times a week I should be doing squats.. also I understand about doing exercises that incorperate many different areas in one, however what's wrong with isolating different parts of the body, wouldnt this just make certain areas very strong since your using it and only it in the exercise? Any other exercises that are good incorperating more then one area and arent olympic lifts?

        • Participant
          numba56 on December 28, 2003 at 8:32 pm #24603

          You can squat 2-3 times a week, but Id recomend at most twice. As for deadlifting I wouldnt do it until the last day of the training week as its very very stressful and draining on the CNS and would take to long to recover for by the next sprint session and would deprive you of that precious CNS energy.

        • Participant
          numba56 on December 28, 2003 at 8:37 pm #24604

          Throw away the leg curls, they build up the hamstring as a knee flexor which is not its main role in sprinting. Use things like Good Mornings, Glute Ham Raises, RDL's, Hypers, single leg hypers, reverse leg press, to build the hamstrings. The oly lift power versions are great exercises, so if technique permits Id use them. You main goal with weights should be to increase strength(not with a bodybuilding program, not saying you have one just saying) so that it positively effects the entire spectrum of the force velocity curve, which in turn means itll help with sprinting.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2003 at 5:34 am #24605

          Doing BACK squats once or twice a week is probably more than enough. However, I personally don't see a major problem with doing squats 4x a week IF you change the type of squat (there are countless types of squats besides the standard back squat with variations in bar type, bar position, foot position, depth, speed of movement, etc.), and also vary the load and / or volume. Besides squats however, you might want to consider doing some unilateral movements like lunges, split squats, or step-ups.

          Also, I do think it's important to point out that you probably don't ALWAYS want to try to move the weight as fast as possible. I understand what everyone is saying and it's a good general recomendation but there are times when slower movements (or movements with brief pauses) are beneficial as a different form of training stimulus and also to develop eccentric, quasi-isometric, quasi-concentric, and isometric strength.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          delldell on December 30, 2003 at 10:50 pm #24606

          I hardly ever did leg curls, but is training knee flexion completely worthless for athletes. If you didn't do GHR's and just did RDL's, GM's, Pull-through, etc. Wouldn't there be a muscle imbalance?

          Also what are examples of quasi-iso/concentrics?

          You can squat 4x, 3x, whatever…you just want to control total weekly volume and tonnage. Splitting it up throughout the week can be good for motor learning. I had never really done lunges. Reverse lunges/Bulgarian split squats are great…so don't neglect uni-laterals. movements as Mike said.

        • Participant
          cchams on December 31, 2003 at 8:48 am #24607

          Alrite, also what are Barbarian Split Squats, and secondly do your calves do anything for you in sprinting, what is there role, what do they do for you?

        • Participant
          numba56 on December 31, 2003 at 10:11 pm #24608

          No it wont create a muscle imbalance, you will do fine like that, if you want to train the knee flexor portion however GHR are a better way that curls I think. EQI is basically a max duration isometric in order to relengthen muscles after a weight training session, up lactic acid tolerence, strengthen the muscle throughout the entire range of motion, and for recovery also(i cant remember the word, but because the muscle is contracted for so long blood was unable to get in there, so when the "stretch" is over there is a huge flow of blood). ex. would be an RDL held at the furthest stretched position for max duration, for the posterior chain.
          The calves play a role in energy transfer to the ground and are part of the propulsion(triple extension)

        • Participant
          cchams on December 31, 2003 at 11:33 pm #24609

          Ok so calves do play an important role in explosion and speed then? Also, I went to the gym today to do the leg workouts that were posted above for me, and I planned on asking one of the trainers what a ham-glute raise was, since I wasn't sure, I had a rough idea of what it was but wanted to double check.. she didn't know what it was, so could someone explain it to me, and maybe direct me to a website that has a visual, like pictures or soemthin, so I can actually see… thanks a lot guys.

        • Participant
          delldell on December 31, 2003 at 11:43 pm #24610

          barbarian squats…haha

          Just do lunges right now. They're one-legged squats with your back foot up on a bench. Use Google for more info.

          Not a surprise that a PT didn't know what a GHR is.

          So the RDL hold is done at the END of the workout? With just the bar?

        • Participant
          cchams on January 1, 2004 at 12:52 am #24611

          yea I just realized what I put lol, bulgarian is what I meant to say, my bad.. and also could someone explain to me the HGR, and where I could get a visual of it?

        • Participant
          cchams on January 1, 2004 at 1:03 am #24612

          Wait, I just looked up the GHR and now know exactly what it is, however my gym doesn't have the machine for it… does anyone know an alternative exercise that might provide similar results.. any suggestions?

        • Participant
          numba56 on January 1, 2004 at 9:45 pm #24613

          For an EQI? No its done with weight, not heavy, and its just a max duration hold.

        • Participant
          delldell on January 2, 2004 at 8:50 am #24614

          So something like 135 for 90 seconds at the end of lower body workouts? What's the purpose again?

        • Participant
          numba56 on January 2, 2004 at 8:53 am #24615

          Its not timed, its max duration, the purpose for which you want to use it I suppose is to relengthen muscles after a workout and improve flexability.

        • Participant
          cchams on January 4, 2004 at 11:16 am #24616

          Well guys i've implemented the program that I put together with everyones help, after Week 1 I have some questions. I'm working out 2 days a week, the 1st day i'm doing 4-6 x 2-3 Squats, 2-3×4-6 Hamstring/Calve in one Curls (I do this because there is no machine for GHR and its one of the few ham machines that incorporates another muscle group) then I do 3 sets of weighted calve raises. The second day I do the Hamstring/Calve curls and weighted calve raises the same, except instead of squats i do 4-6×2-3 of reverse leg press… now to my question… during these exercises i work my muscles to the max, til they cant do anymore, and I do it as fast as possible, so my muscles get tired when I'm doing it.. but after I do my leg workouts, at the very end my legs don't feel very tired, they feel tired but not that tired, and the next day there not that tired or sore, just a little bit. So my question is if I should add more exercises until my legs feel shot after my workout, or if I should stick with what I have, and will I see an increase in speed if i'm not feeling that dead… and if I should add more or make adjustments, how and/or with what exercises.. any help would be appreciated, thanks guys.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on January 4, 2004 at 1:43 pm #24617

          I'm a little skeptical of the static hold work. I've seen some compelling articles in Musclehead & Fitness, Flex, etc. but there's quite a bit of research to say that this type of thing, especially at the end of a workout, might be inviting injury. Check out the research on spinal creep and also ask any brick layer or auto mechanic (both of whom spend extended periods of time in extreme static flexion positions) how their back is feeling. In an effort to lengthen the muscles, you may actually instead be stretching the ligaments while the muscles go in to a spastic (contracted) state. Having said all that, I have done it myself in the past and did like how it felt but this was also the same time that I had two very severe back spasms.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          delldell on January 5, 2004 at 10:56 pm #24618

          Well the reason people are talking about it is that there is a chapter on it in Thibaudeau's new book.

        • Participant
          cchams on January 6, 2004 at 2:02 am #24619

          Does anyone have an answer to my question by any chance 😀

        • Participant
          deacon27 on January 6, 2004 at 1:47 pm #24620

          I'm curious…what are BACK squats, how often should someone who wants to run 400's (like myself, for instance) do cleans/deadlifts/lunges in a week?

        • Participant
          Derrick Brito on January 6, 2004 at 8:55 pm #24621

          back squats are the squats with the weight on your back, hence the name ;). i would think youd do cleans/lunges/deadlifts about as much as a short sprinter, in terms of days per week. you might want a slightly smaller volume, but i dont know for sure.

        • Participant
          deacon27 on January 6, 2004 at 10:04 pm #24622

          Ohh…my apologies……I was expecting something more technical…to me back squats are just squates. I'm learning slowly:?: Is leg press a suitable substitute for squats, or something that I should be doing in addition to squats?

        • Participant
          Derrick Brito on January 7, 2004 at 3:21 am #24623

          i wouldnt recomend leg press. i was doing it for a while but its the only exercise ive done that made my knees feel weird. so i dont do it anymore. id say all the benefits from leg press you could probably get from squats. plus squats are a free weight exercise so it helps with a lot of things leg press wouldnt.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on January 7, 2004 at 9:14 am #24624

          I'd only use leg press in cases of necessity (injury) or as an assistance exercise. As I mentioned before their are an unlimited variety of squat techniques that you could use. Single leg movements would also be quite helpful.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Member
          400stud on January 7, 2004 at 9:51 am #24625

          [i]Originally posted by cockysprinter[/i]
          back squats are the squats with the weight on your back, hence the name ;). i would think youd do cleans/lunges/deadlifts about as much as a short sprinter, in terms of days per week. you might want a slightly smaller volume, but i dont know for sure.

          As far as weightlifting for long sprints, it's pretty much the same as for short sprints except that more endurance work can be included including depletion BW exercises on tempo days. Otherwise follow the same protocols.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on March 10, 2006 at 12:07 pm #24626

          hey mike what exactly is quasi-concentric, bc i c it in my combine training program?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on March 11, 2006 at 11:06 pm #24627

          Quasi-concentric would be normal concentric lifting with pauses thrown in to the middle of the ROM….at least that's how I think Siff would define it.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on March 12, 2006 at 3:07 am #24628

          i think  u r right, i know some guys that really like doing that shit but i really dont see the point..

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on March 12, 2006 at 4:05 am #24629

          I've used them to switch things up. I could potentially also see them used to break through sticking points in a ROM.

          ELITETRACK Founder

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