[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 12:17 pm #11570

what do u guys think about dropping squats for heavy trap bar deadlifts??

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 12:25 pm #51275

what u think danimal.?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 12:29 pm #51276

LOL, I love deadlifts.  So I am biased, but I also love Squats.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 12:32 pm #51277

i was thinking about trying barry ross system heavy deadlift 2-5×2-5-x85-100% w/box jumps??

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 12:34 pm #51278

I personally like following heavy deadlifts with Cleans or Snatches, but I also do Box Jumps.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 12:37 pm #51279

r u serious heavy deadlift then power cleans how had that work for u?? why do u like dl so much, i am torn between these two:

program 1:
mon:
pc
bsq
aux stuff

wed:
ps
fsq
aux stuff

program 2:
mon;
pc
bp/plyos
deadlift/plyos
aux stuff

wed:
hang snatch
bp/plyos
deadlift/plyos
aux stuff

I REALLY LIKE MY SQUATS:

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 12:43 pm #51280

I should have put in light cleans and snatches, the primary pulling move in those lifts similiar to the deadlift pull.  Same principle as box jump, nueromuscular recruitment.  Although trap bar is different, and on regular deadlifts your hands are in opposite positions.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 12:45 pm #51281

so why u like dl better then squat, and which program u like above? im piss at the squat right now. is there something wrong with trap dl?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 12:55 pm #51282

For the reason above, is why I like it. 

Only way to get better at squats is to do them.  Deadlifts will help, but only a little, there is a reason why DL is so much lower than SQ amongst elite powerlifters.

I typically have my kids go sq followed by dl on their strength day, I like working both together and I follow those by lunges, until we start doing maximal work then lunges are dropped.  I would suggest following a strength day by an explosive strength day.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 12:59 pm #51283

i strain my quad doing heavy squats last mon, so i am thinking about adding trap dl and followin program 2?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 1:03 pm #51284

Then I'd watch my jumping and hopping too.  The way I look at it is this, cleans and snatches still help with jumping ability more so than deadlift, but less so than squats.    So why not try a day of complexing heavy deadlifts with light snatches about 50-60%.

Also, realize that any groin muscle injured is still a likely stabilizer in the deadlift as well.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 1:07 pm #51285

so u r saying to do heavy trap dl with light speed snatch sounds good, but i can do everything without pain besides block work 0-20m thats when i feel it the most..  thats why i was thinking about keeping my original plan bsq on mon and fsq on wed?.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 1:12 pm #51286

Go 2 weeks without the squats then see what it feels like doing 80-85% work.  Keep icing that injury.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 1:15 pm #51287

I'd still prefer a traditional deadlift grip on a straight bar, but the trap bar allows you to pull more.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 1:20 pm #51288

its all my fault that i strain my quad bc i went into the weight room and didnt do any warmup sets and just jump right into 380×4 for bsq..  so u think i will get more benefits by sticking with the bsq and fsq?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 1:21 pm #51289

After you heal, yes.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 1:25 pm #51290

since u do heavy pulls with ur athletes inseason u dont have any problems with lower body fatigue? also what do u think about barry ross system, its kinda intresting..

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 1:31 pm #51291

I'm not exactly familiar with his system.  My athletes lift 2 times a week too and technically we're not in season for another week, and even then their competition don't start till 4 weeks from now.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 1:38 pm #51292

when u r inseason what are ur %'s for bsq and fsq?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 1:44 pm #51293

You have to remember this conditioning program is for high school girls of whom most have never lifted before.  Comparitively speaking though its results have been better than the kids using the BFS program at my school.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 1:46 pm #51294

this is what i am thinking about doing:

week 1:
mon: bsq
5×50/5×55/5×65/5×65

wed: fsq
5×50/5×55/5×60/5×65

week 2:
mon: bsq
5×50/5×60/3×70/3×75/3×75

wed: fsq
5×50/5×55/5×65/5×65

week 3:

mon: bsq
5×50/5×55/5×60/5×65

wed: fsq
5×50/5×55/5×60/5×65

week 4:
mon: bsq
5×50/4×60/3×70/2×80/2×80

wed: fsq
5×50/5×55/5×65/5×65

week 5:
mon: bsq
5×50/5×55/5×60/5×65

wed: fsq
5×50/5×55/3×60/3×65

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 2:01 pm #51295

is that intensity?  If so are you doing explosive squats?

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 2:04 pm #51296

yes it is intensity, but i just spoke to my speed coach for the combine and i think will i drop the squats and do heavy single leg squats on mon and speed squats on wed..

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 2:07 pm #51297

Sorry, but my erraticness is due to a rather high stakes poker game.  Did you tell him about your groin injury.

Also, what did you think of that program?

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 2:26 pm #51298

yes he knows about my quad strain its not serious to me bc i had this injury about 2 yrs and i kept training an i was fine.. i really like that program bc:

1: running is a single limb movement = heavy single leg squats = excellent
2: speed squats = will develop rate of force
3: will keep me fresh to have high quality speed workouts/meets
4: i have a base of strength bsq over 500lbs and front sq 375

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 3:23 pm #51299

I think my kids need more time before I progress to single leg heavy squats.  I vary their lunges and make them step up to a 24 inch plyo box sometimes, but that is about as much single limb support that they do besides plyos.

However, did you read my program and what did you think of it?

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 3:31 pm #51300

overall i think its good but what do u mean by power in the weight room just curious to hear from u?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 3:41 pm #51301

Just like the term in physics, work/time.  In this case the best possible combination of load and speed which is typically between 40 and 60% 1RM depending on the number of lifts as well.  Don't confuse Power with Rate of Force Development (Explosive Strength).  There are some correlations to the 2, but they are not the same.

For instance:

P = m*a*d/t

RFD = m*a/t

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 17, 2006 at 3:44 pm #51302

i have always been a guy that like to develop max strength in the weight room and speed and power on the track, but i am taking my coach advance and gonna try these speed squats etc.. so thats the format u use for ur athletes?

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 3:49 pm #51303

Power is hard to develop on a track.  Its best developed specifically with inclined or resisted runs.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on January 17, 2006 at 4:02 pm #51304

Let me add this, I believe and I think for the most part it is true.  Maximal Strength and Heavy Lifting influence greatly Rate of Force Development, thus I believe that is maximized with lifts like Squats and Deadlifts.  Power in the weight room is 2 two fold total work or total time influenced, thus someone going volume (work) based is more power-endurance specific or average power, while someone who lifts say 1 power clean is more concerned with absolute or peak power generation is time specific.  I also believe that Jump Squats and those type activites are Explosive Strength in nature and Power based as well.  Finding a way to incorporate this into your routines depends on your sport, your events, your strengths, your weaknesses, etc…

Everything I do, like that program, for my athletes has all the components of the above in it.  I also, individualize the workouts too, sometimes changing them based on a variety of factors.  Something that works well for someone may not work as well for someone else.  That's why I have the Explosive Strength day alternative which is slightly more weight than the power day on lift but less weight than maximal strength days.  I also have routines which I don't list, because I want to supervise them if they do it that I do a work based routine (20+ reps) with regards to power output.  Some people here in the forum don't like these routines and there is some reasoning behind it that is valid for their reasons.  However, I know if I can get a certain workload done in a certain amount of time that it provides a measure of how well they may do in a competition, but it is also both taxing on Nueral and Energy Systems are requires significant recovery time.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on January 20, 2006 at 8:53 am #51305

yes he knows about my quad strain its not serious to me bc i had this injury about 2 yrs and i kept training an i was fine.. i really like that program bc:

1: running is a single limb movement = heavy single leg squats = excellent

This is reasonable logic but some recent studies by chiu and colleagues have indicated that squats have a better transfer to single limb movements than do single limb exercises. Having said that I still include plenty of unilateral exercises.

ELITETRACK Founder

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on January 20, 2006 at 10:35 am #51306

this is my first week, and i really like it..