Posted In: Sprints
This is mostly concentric strength being expressed
horizontal forces are most important for propulsion
knee dominant movement as opposed to hamstrings at top speed
severe forward lean at about 45 degrees
For the knee dominant,concentric strength: Squat jumps( I don’t like conventional squats because you have to decelerate at the top of the movement)
For the horizontal propulsion: weighted sled dragging, horizontal bounding
What do you guys think? Simple as that?
Depends on the runner, but I made huge time gains in accel when I focused on lifting more for strength – specifically squatting. I had previously only been doing power cleans and deadlifts once or twice a week, but then I cut deadlifts and added deep, heavy squats 2-4x per week (strength-based workouts like 4×9 and 5×5), and even did a 2-week mesocycle of just squats 4x/week and light power cleans (google “Smolov”) and no running. My 30m split went from 4.45 to 4.05 in just a couple months as my max squat increased from 315 to 365. I have progressed further from there, but for a while I was making ridiculous gains. It didn’t really help my maxV at all, and probably hurt it temporarily because I was running so little, but it was the off season so I had a couple months to get back on a regular schedule while maintaining those strength levels.
I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND DOING THAT, but it shows what a little lifting can do for your accel times. If you are someone who does not do a lot of strength work (and you sound like someone who especially doesn’t like to do deep, heavy squat work) and your accel is struggling, it might be as simple as putting greater focus on lifting. Don’t stop running, though! I did it because of a hamstring injury.
Of course sled pulls, plyos, bounding, 10s/20s/30s, squat jumps, PCs, etc. will all help and are all part of a good training regimen, but for me the biggest thing was just straight up squatting. I think everyone should squat 2x/week As you noted, accel is all about concentric strength, which I was lacking before.
…Of course sled pulls, plyos, bounding, 10s/20s/30s, squat jumps, PCs, etc. will all help and are all part of a good training regimen, but for me the biggest thing was just straight up squatting. I think everyone should squat 2x/week As you noted, accel is all about concentric strength, which I was lacking before.
Good advice, I would include short steep hill runs as well.
Great topic and great replies…You all took the words right out of my mouth…I can say that at this point of the year my strength in the weight room has gone down and so has my acceleration. I was previously running about 4.4 +/- .05 when I was squatting 500. Now my best 40 time may be around 4.55 +/- .05 and my max squat is unknown since I haven’t did heavy squats in about 3 years. I can also say my vertical leap has decreased also. In highschool I could grab rim with two hands from vert and now I can barely grab it with one hand from vert and my height is 5″11. That goes to show that explosion is explosion and you need to be able to apply more force than you are curently able to increase explosion/acceleration.
All that squatting for 50lbs??? Advance athletes don’t need to squat twice a week and most can’t handle squatting more then once.
Depends on the runner, but I made huge time gains in accel when I focused on lifting more for strength – specifically squatting. I had previously only been doing power cleans and deadlifts once or twice a week, but then I cut deadlifts and added deep, heavy squats 2-4x per week (strength-based workouts like 4×9 and 5×5), and even did a 2-week mesocycle of just squats 4x/week and light power cleans (google “Smolov”) and no running. My 30m split went from 4.45 to 4.05 in just a couple months as my max squat increased from 315 to 365. I have progressed further from there, but for a while I was making ridiculous gains. It didn’t really help my maxV at all, and probably hurt it temporarily because I was running so little, but it was the off season so I had a couple months to get back on a regular schedule while maintaining those strength levels.
I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND DOING THAT, but it shows what a little lifting can do for your accel times. If you are someone who does not do a lot of strength work (and you sound like someone who especially doesn’t like to do deep, heavy squat work) and your accel is struggling, it might be as simple as putting greater focus on lifting. Don’t stop running, though! I did it because of a hamstring injury.
Of course sled pulls, plyos, bounding, 10s/20s/30s, squat jumps, PCs, etc. will all help and are all part of a good training regimen, but for me the biggest thing was just straight up squatting. I think everyone should squat 2x/week As you noted, accel is all about concentric strength, which I was lacking before.
All that squatting for 50lbs??? Advance athletes don’t need to squat twice a week and most can’t handle squatting more then once.
To be precise, I just looked back at my log and before I started Smolov my 9RM was 225 and my 3RM was 265, so my previous max was more like 285. 315 was from memory. 12 days later I completed 10×3 @275, which corresponds to a max around 325. The rest of the gains came from squatting 2x/week with speed work, tempo, etc. for the next month or two.
Squatting 1x/week vs. 2x/week depends on the athlete and the program, but I think lower body lifting twice a week is standard and very effective, even if just for maintenance. Of course, lifting once a week also has its place, especially during certain parts of the season etc. etc…. But in general.
I’m not talking about squatting 200-300lbs – I squat over 500lbs and did it with squatting once a week with submax loads. When you squat 200-300lbs it doesn’t matter what you do everything will work because your weak. It’s stupid for any speed/power athlete to squat 4 times a week – plain out stupid.
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1312862106"]All that squatting for 50lbs??? Advance athletes don’t need to squat twice a week and most can’t handle squatting more then once.
To be precise, I just looked back at my log and before I started Smolov my 9RM was 225 and my 3RM was 265, so my previous max was more like 285. 315 was from memory. 12 days later I completed 10×3 @275, which corresponds to a max around 325. The rest of the gains came from squatting 2x/week with speed work, tempo, etc. for the next month or two.
Squatting 1x/week vs. 2x/week depends on the athlete and the program, but I think lower body lifting twice a week is standard and very effective, even if just for maintenance. Of course, lifting once a week also has its place, especially during certain parts of the season etc. etc…. But in general.[/quote]
I have to agree, and disagree. There is a fine balance, but for my own training, I think excessive power/strength work always lowers my 30 time.
At the start of the summer i had no gym membership, so I occasionally (once a week), did some lunges with a sofa, but focused mostly on sprinting at top speed, and bounding. My vert exploded (and later I found out my strength gains remained the same or slightly increased despite only moderate laod lifting).
I think once you hit a a plateau in the 30m dash by just sprinting, the squatting will help, the problem is that RFD is so much different in a sprint than in a squat, even a jump squat, that it may slow you down if you are not sprinting at least once a week at max v.
My 30 went form a 3.8 (hand timed with stopwatch in hand), to a 4 in two weeks when i focused mostly on bounding and jumping rather than sprinting. After 1 day of 30 m sprinting, I went back down to a 3.84 two days later.
Then one day I did deep squat jumps with 175 lbs (my max squat is prolly weak as hell), and I definitely felt faster. So yes it helps, but what I see a lot of people doing is focusing on the lifting and forgettiing that RFD cannot be trained for sprints by squatting.
Also, I read an article that I can’t find anymore that said sprinting and jumping was actually isometric rather than concentric.. Any thoughts on this?
If oyu think about it, all that force is being developed in only .2 seconds at the start and in a running vertical jump. Once that power has been generated at a specific joint angle, it’s over, you jump up (to a certain extent). Would it be fair to say there is at least some isometric stuff going on?
If you are a 100m guy i wouldn’t worry about making the 30m so fast, as oppose to just making sure you are doing it correctly, thats the most important thing and as you become older and more experienced it will get better.
If you are young and your strength levels are low then you can focus on max strength for some quick improvements in 30m time. 1/4 Squats, half squats and deep squats for sets of 3-6 are pretty good. When your young almost any kind of training will help you see improvement, however as you get older repitition of your actual activity THE CORRECT WAY helps. You have to sprint to become faster. I would recommend learning how to sprint FIRST before you begin trying to get really strong because when you are strong it allows you to cheat a little, I see so many guys that are JUST strong but have terrible technique. They don’t know how to be powerful because they are trying to be so quick. They may run 10.1-10.3 and they can’t improve after. Its because they have become strong and accustomed to doing alot of small things wrong and its become programmed into their bodies to do it thewrong way.
Strength will take you far but once you hit a plateau you won’t see very much more improvement if your technique is bad. Learn technique first and then get strong this way you are strengthening the correct movements that you have learned.
I had a kid that was very strong running 10.6-10.8’s before I got him. In his country all he had was a 150m street to run on and very limited weights, He used alot of machine weights.
He came to my team in january and the indoor season had already started. He went 6.8 for 60m(straining and tightening up), I knew this wouldn’t last when outdoor season started. So i corrected his push off the blocks making it happen slower but with more force application and he said after running that way it felt slow. After a couple weeks of practicing this action he felt slow in the beginning but was able to finish alot faster in the 100m instead of dying like he normally does when he is quick, he began running 10.4’s. I didn’t emphasize alot of weight training because he was a naturally powerful kid and had terrible technique in the weight room so we did lighter weight to get his lifting technique down. we did power cleans, squats, bench, very basic lifts for nothing above 6 reps.
If your strength levels are good and you have been trained to be very explosive then you have put the parts in place, but you now have to figure out how to drive the car.
Make sure you are getting full extension and pushing the blocks as hard as your can. Make sure you aren’t running off the blocks or trying to be quick. This is more so to finish a good 100m so your 30m may not be as fast in the beginning however,
As you execute more and more reps this entire movement will happen faster (simple motor programming). Asafa powell is probably the best at this.
1. Technique first-realize the race starts from 0m/s and you accelerate. You shouldn’t be at top speed after a couple steps. Give yourself time to accelerate.
2. Max strength progressing to power lifts.(I never abandon max strength totally because we do so much high velocity sprinting and power=forcexvelocity. So I never abandon any part of that equation.
3. realize making 30m fast isn’t important, but executing it right is and the better your become at doing it right, the faster it will become.
This is a bold statement that’s unsupported. I’d like to see Elite level data from 2 season for 2-3 men and 2-3 women who lifted 1x a week for one season and 3x a week for the other season. If you have no data elite level then its all anecdotal.
You must also factor in where they are in training..GPP is much different than SPP. I just don’t think you can make such a blanket statement, especially when someone is looking for advice.
All that squatting for 50lbs??? Advance athletes don’t need to squat twice a week and most can’t handle squatting more then once.]
3. realize making 30m fast isn’t important, but executing it right is and the better your become at doing it right, the faster it will become.
Do you really think this is true? Since when has a 30m time not been an indicator of accleration abilities? Moreover, the sum of its parts make up the whole in this case. Show me any splits where a male has run 10.2x-9.9x and have run slower than 4’s over 30m?
The fact remains that you do need to both accelerate effiently and “fast” if your ever going to reach the top end speeds required to run fast.
[quote author="Brandon Morton" date="1312922321"]3. realize making 30m fast isn’t important, but executing it right is and the better your become at doing it right, the faster it will become.
Do you really think this is true? Since when has a 30m time not been an indicator of accleration abilities? Moreover, the sum of its parts make up the whole in this case. Show me any splits where a male has run 10.2x-9.9x and have run slower than 4’s over 30m?
The fact remains that you do need to both accelerate effiently and “fast” if your ever going to reach the top end speeds required to run fast.[/quote]
You never heard me ay run 30m slow. And what’s fast to some isn’t fast to others. So if you are running for time then you probably won’t know how to win races. Run to win and times will come with competition.
The point is most kids don’t know how to run an entire race fast because they are thinking about 30m before they think about the first 5m. If you do it correctly it will be what it is (fast in fast race and slower in races depending on external conditions such as weather, and competition and internal things such as effort). You can say you want to run whatever for 30m but realize it will change depending on those things and more. You just need to focuse on running correctly to 30m and on not how fast you can get there. How many guys run to 30m fast and finish terribly. It’s not because their 30m is slow, its because they are rushing trying to be quick to 30m.
Where in my post did I say 30m wasn’t an indicator of acceleration abilities? I would think any coach would understand 30m is where you accelerate, so how could it not be important. The point I was making was that you don’t want to think 30m-100m you want to think 0-100m. So many kids want to be fast to 30m and really good sprinters know that if you rush to 30m then you will probably reach top speed early and decelerate before everyone else.
And your right you have to accelerate efficiently and still be fast (meaning cross the finish line first). However you have to make sure you are saying this in a way that they understand because fast has to just be there, it has to be programmed in. You can’t try to be fast, you just have to sprint correctly and fast has to be a by product.
As far as showing you a 10.2-9.9 guy who has run 4 for 30m, like I said I’m not concerned with how fast they get to 30m as long as they do it coorectly. That doesn’t mean do it slow or quick. It means be fast and your 30m may change with those external things discussed above. Now I’m not saying be a tortoise to 30m, we are sprinting. You need to try and do it corectly while either beating everyone or at least staying with everyone. but don’t get so caught up in numbers and forget to do it correctly. Check that stats below and you will see a classic example of why getting to 30m first doesn’t necessarily mean you will win.
Tokyo ’91 wind +1.2
Carl Lewis 1.88 2.96 3.88 4.77 5.61 6.46 7.30 8.13 9.00 9.86
1.74 1.08 0.92 0.89 0.84 0.85 0.84 0.83 0.87 0.86
Reaction Time: 0.140
Leroy Burrell 1.83 2.89 3.79 4.68 5.55 6.41 7.26 8.12 9.01 9.88
1.71 1.06 0.90 0.89 0.87 0.86 0.87 0.84 0.89 0.87
Reaction Time: 0.120
Dennis Mitchell 1.80 2.87 3.80 4.68 5.55 6.42 7.28 8.14 9.01 9.91
1.71 1.07 0.93 0.88 0.87 0.87 0.86 0.86 0.87 0.90
Reaction Time: 0.090
You have to understand carl lewis made sure he was doing things correct in the beginning because you can run 30m fast and wrong. maurice greene, mike marsh, donvan bailey, tyson gay is the same and even usain bolt is too. they are world class sprinters and their 30m is fast but they aren’t trying to be fast to 30m, they are executing race strategy and as a result they have a decent 30m but what made them wasn’t their starts, it was how they finished their races. Don’t neglect the end of your race for the beginning. If a kid can run 30m fast, what does it matter if they cant finish the entire race fast. I don’t remember the last time I saw a medal given to the person with the fastest 30m. but thats just me. Alot of guys accelerate quickly but cant finish.
Carl and Leroy were coached the same, patient acceleration, so why such the difference in 30 yet not at 100. Did Leroy ignore Tellez, is Carl just simply more talented. To me it seems like focusing and coaching the athlete to not try to go to fast frequency too soon is the key.
This happens where some guys get to 30 a substantial margin behind the others, however is it really that common?
Bolt was getting to 30 extremely fast in his WR.
How does this change if you want run a fast 30m or 40y?
Do you guys believe you should still not go to frequency too soon if your goal is to run as fast to 30m as possible?
This is laughable. You’ve shown data that is within hundredths of each other. Show splits of someone who ran slower than 4.0. Do you think for one minute these guys are throtteling back? LOL…Leroy Burrell didn’t win obviously, not because his acceleration or 30m time was inadequate but because his top end speed & speed endurance was not as good as Carls. The data points this out! Look at the splits. Moreover, Leroy was much more muscular and powerful than Carl as stated by Tellez serveral times which would correlate to his 30m being faster.
Further more, the better sprinters maximize stride rate throughtout the start by leveraging their strenghth to produce horizontal forces. The by product of producing maximal horizontal forces is a “fast or faster 30m” It is proper mechanics that will allow you to produce the forces required to run faster. Bottomline as I stated, your 30m time is an indicator for the rest of the race. Again, look at the splits,
Never put the cart before the horse. As most have said, Strength ie squats etc and specific strength ie hills or sled pulls are required to improve your 30m time.
“We’ve looked at film,” says Tellez. “There’s not much difference between them. Leroy is more muscular and has more power. Carl, when he’s on, is more efficient and relaxed.”
Speaks to the splits differiental were seeing at top end and speed endurance…hmmm
Good points Brandon
I’m not talking about squatting 200-300lbs – I squat over 500lbs and did it with squatting once a week with submax loads. When you squat 200-300lbs it doesn’t matter what you do everything will work because your weak. It’s stupid for any speed/power athlete to squat 4 times a week – plain out stupid.
I think we agree with each other. Squatting 4x/week IS stupid. I was coming off an injury and was only cleared to lift for 2-3 weeks so I gave Smolov a try. Like I said,
I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND DOING THAT
And, yes, when you’re weak any lifting will help. I was weak(er) before I started squatting. OP seems to be of the non-lifting type and thus is probably “weak” (200-300lb squat), so telling him to lift will definitely help his 30m. I’m not talking about elites and dudes with 500lb squats.
I think what Brandon is trying to say is that 30m times don’t win races. It doesn’t matter if you’re leading at 30m unless your also leading at 100m. Cutting time to 30m is useless if it slows you down overall by 100m. However, 0-30m is part of the race, and if you can cut time there and run a better 100m, then that is of course a good thing. Yes?
This is laughable. You’ve shown data that is within hundredths of each other. Show splits of someone who ran slower than 4.0. Do you think for one minute these guys are throtteling back? LOL…Leroy Burrell didn’t win obviously, not because his acceleration or 30m time was inadequate but because his top end speed & speed endurance was not as good as Carls. The data points this out! Look at the splits. Moreover, Leroy was much more muscular and powerful than Carl as stated by Tellez serveral times which would correlate to his 30m being faster.
Further more, the better sprinters maximize stride rate throughtout the start by leveraging their strenghth to produce horizontal forces. The by product of producing maximal horizontal forces is a “fast or faster 30m” It is proper mechanics that will allow you to produce the forces required to run faster. Bottomline as I stated, your 30m time is an indicator for the rest of the race. Again, look at the splits,
Never put the cart before the horse. As most have said, Strength ie squats etc and specific strength ie hills or sled pulls are required to improve your 30m time.
ok im going to tear your argument down peice by peice lol.
1. Do I think these guys are throttling back? no but they are accelerating correctly and efficiently. Just because its a fast 30m to you doesn’t mean its a fast 30m for them. 3.8 and 3.7 for carl lewis and leroy burrell is different then 3.7-3.8 for joe blow trying to run 10.7. Carl and Leroy are going thru the phases of their race and hitting these times and joe blow would probably pop a blood vessel in his brain from trying to hit those times and the only way he would hit the same times is by being quick. 30m is so early in the race that you can do alot of stuff wrong and still look good. The body can go all out for 7 secs. If we were talking just a 30m dash, quick would be good but we are talking 100m. running faster then 4.0 for 30m says you can accelerate but it doesn’t say you can accelerate correctly.
2.I didn’t say he lost because of his 30m time. The point I’m trying to make is some one with a slower 30m time can still win a race. HINT HINT getting to 30m FIRST isn’t that important. yeah of cource carl’s speed endurance was better but carl’s speed endurance was better then maurice greene’s also but maurice would beat him in the 100m. He was stronger then carl but he knew how to gradually come out of his drive phase and not be quick to 30.
3. Squates, hills, sleds help condition your body and get it the tools it needs acceleration. It doesn’t mean you are going to do it correctly.
https://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/analysis-of-bolts-958-wr.html
Check this page leroy Burrel 30m was faster then tyson gay, asafa powell and tied with Bolt. Doc patton for 3.93 and ran 10.3 in this race. lol Im going to guess leroy was a little quick in this race because I don’t think anybody can accelerate better than asafa powell and leroy’s 30m was faster then his. But then again he may have just been on.
however you’re missing the whole ship buddy. Im trying to tell you is if you run 30 in under 4 the right way thats good but if you bust your whole load to get to 30 in under 4.0 then you will lose if you are going against good smart sprinters. Telling a younger kid he needs to be 3.8 to be fast is wrong. A younger kid may have to be 3.99 at 30m in order for him to accelerate efficiently. Most elite sprinters hit 30m in 3.8-3.9 and they still tie up which leads me to believe alot of them are hitting 3.8-3.9 trying to be quick. Steve mullings even said the difference in his race is that he stopped trying to be rushing.
https://www.trackalerts.com/news/lead-stories/4676-mullings-not-scared-of-bolt-and-powell
“I just figured it out, how to do it,” Mullings said. “I always rushed my first 30 metres, (but) now I have more patience.
IM DONE LOL
I think what Brandon is trying to say is that 30m times don’t win races. It doesn’t matter if you’re leading at 30m unless your also leading at 100m. Cutting time to 30m is useless if it slows you down overall by 100m. However, 0-30m is part of the race, and if you can cut time there and run a better 100m, then that is of course a good thing. Yes?
THANK YOU ALEX
Good points Brandon
THANKS
oh yeah guys if you get a chance, checkout my blog sometimes. controlledspeeddevelopment.blogspot.com
Can we have some evidence of Bolt, Gay, Powell, Lemaitre, Lewis etc actually squatting?.
I haven’t personally seen none as of yet.
Or are they doing it in the secrecy of there bedrooms?, lol.
Brandon, you’ve missed the boat.
Acceleration mechanics is mostly about how to position your body (limbs etc) to apply forces to optimally accelerate faster than the competition. There is no such scientific thing as “the right way” howover, there are optimal mechanics that are desired to output maximal forces. Objective is to run fast buddy…
In some ways (be it far fetched) saying 30m time doesn’t matter is like saying horizantal force at the start doesn’t matter. Tell that to Ralph Mann
Can we have some evidence of Bolt, Gay, Powell, Lemaitre, Lewis etc actually squatting?.
I haven’t personally seen none as of yet.
Or are they doing it in the secrecy of there bedrooms?, lol.
There was some vid of Lemaitre squatting (not very deep) and doing oly lifts, if I remember correctly. Vids of Asafa benching and doing stepups have been passed around numerous times. Vid and photos of Bolt doing leg press, power clean and bench. Vid of Shelly Ann Fraser doing heavy deadlifts, so it stands to reason Powell has done them as well.
It’s a fact that Ben Johnson, Mo Greene, Donovan Bailey, Tyson Gay squat and did it with substantial weight. They all run in the same neighborhood as the ones you mentioned.
What’s your point troll?
[quote author="Meysam Razi" date="1312932498"]Good points Brandon
THANKS[/quote]
I think most everyone agrees with you that you need to be patient to 30 and beyond. I bet they run faster being patient yet still powerful and fast.
Brandon, you’ve missed the boat.
Acceleration mechanics is mostly about how to position your body (limbs etc) to apply forces to optimally accelerate faster than the competition. There is no such scientific thing as “the right way” howover, there are optimal mechanics that are desired to output maximal forces. Objective is to run fast buddy…
In some ways (be it far fetched) saying 30m time doesn’t matter is like saying horizantal force at the start doesn’t matter. Tell that to Ralph Mann
You are missing my point. in the grand scheme of things emphasizing speed to 30m over technique is wrong. How fast you get to 30m doesn’t matter if you are doing it wrong and you can tell ralph mann or anybody else I said that. Every part of the race is important but I’m not going to emphasize getting to 30m faster if they are already doing it correctly.
PRETTY MUCH IF A KID IS DOING IT CORRECTLY AND COMING THRU 30M IN 4.0, YOU SAY “GO FASTER THATS SLOW.”
I will just say thats not how I would approach it. Once they are doing it correctly then I’m really going to put the things into my program that will make theis 4.0 turn into a 3.8. Yeah they could go faster but at what costs?
1. tying up after 30m
2. Losing the race
They will get faster to 30m as time goes on and they mature and get stronger thru weights, sport age, etc.. A sprinter will come thru 30m at a consistent time if they are doing everything right, sometimes a little off and sometimes a little faster. However you can’t ask them to go faster if they are doing it correctly with max effort. So why emphasize time of the 30m if, they are hitting the proper mechanics and giving you max effort? You are saying you would OVERLOOK DOING IT CORRECTLY and say “you have to be fastER to 30m.” iT’S PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GO FASTER WITHOUT THE TOOLS TO GO FASTER, tHE BODY HAS TO HAVE THE RESOURCES TO GO FASTER. iF THEY DON’T HAVE THE STRENGTH THEY WON GO FASTER UNLESS THEY TRY TO BE QUICK. lol thats WRONG. You get their technique down and let the speed come dont force it.
The goal isn’t to accelerate the fastest. For me it is to accelerate the longest and most efficient. Be in the pack or ahead at the end of acceleration WITHOUT USING ALOT OF ENERGY and then the race starts.
Meaning dont go from 0-12m/s in the first 10m.
When you say accelerate the fastest, I REPEAT YOUR QUOTE:
“Acceleration mechanics is mostly about how to position your body (limbs etc) to apply forces to optimally accelerate faster than the competition.”
does that mean hit top speed at 15m? i MEAN THATS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING THEM TO DO WHEN YOU SAY ACCELERATE THE FASTEST. Great now you will be a great 65m sprinter. Don’t know any races that distance.
The way you are describing the mechanics is correct but the way you are wanting them to use their energy is waaay off. You want to be in the pack without using alot of energy. Most sprinters just DONT run a fast first 30m and still finish strong because they don’t know how to use their energy correctly. Their are some that do BUT ALOT MORE THAT DONT.
But you look at the majority of guys that follow the race pattern you described above, and that pattern is correct, however when you are so obsessed with so much speed IN THE first 30m, it doesn’t matter how that they are in the 45degree angle applying horizontal forces, you can still strain and lock the muscles up and begin the process to tense up in the drive phase position. Like maurice greene says even in the drive phase position you have to be powerful without using alot of energy. And when you emphasize so much speed to 30m this is exactly what happens. Most sprinters are straining while in that position and they are so tense from trying to be fast to 30m they tie up after 30m. Every sprinter I know goes into a drive phase in order to follow the rules you stated above, however alot of them still don’t run fast because they use their energy the wrong way while in that position. So my friend you can still do the mechanics of the race and STILL USE YOUR ENERGY THE WRONG WAY. Its up to you as a coach to say
“be powerful not quick, i don’t care about your 30m time, because you tense up after 30m, when you TRY get there fast instead of just letting it happen. Lets try to push the blocks as hard as we can, not as quick as we can and gradually raise the shoulders and see what happens.”
And when you emphsize trying to be fast to 30m, the athlete is thinking “if I get to 30m first then I’m going to be victorious.” WRONG You will be first to 30m and last to 100m.
If a high schooler goes from 10.9 to 10.5, then he could be a better sprinter than Usain Bolt as far as executing the race the right way. bolt just may have more natural gifts then him. but he may be closer to his max potential in the 100m then Bolt and executing the race better. Fast is whatever the max your body can put out and even though alot of sprinters run 10.0-10.2 they could go so much faster if they corrected a couple things. So when you say 10.00-9.9 is fast I say it’s slow for some of these guys because they are still running the wrong way. A major problem I see is alot of sprinters are too fast to 30m. I literally told my guy to stop trying to beat everyone to 30m and look to be more powerful and save his energy for the end of the race. He took off .2 from his 100m time in a matter of about 6 weeks just from this small correction and it wasn;t a one time thing. He went 10.42 3x and never saw 10.6 are above unlessen he was letting up for a prelim or he felt a hammy tweak. His speed endurance wasn’t good at all, he was just able to execute his race better.
great posts thus far. I really think that the 1st 30m sets up my whole race. If its a good 30m then it sets up my transition to top speed so much more. As for using up to much energy in the first 30m, is a very common thing. Some guys have sick 30m times but just end up dieing due to poor transition into MaxVelocity or just tighten up so bad. I believe the 1st 30m needs to be fast but relaxed. Like mentioned above there are guys out there that look like there heads going to explode because they try putting so much power into that first 30m.
[quote author="JC Cooper" date="1312935269"]Can we have some evidence of Bolt, Gay, Powell, Lemaitre, Lewis etc actually squatting?.
I haven’t personally seen none as of yet.
Or are they doing it in the secrecy of there bedrooms?, lol.
There was some vid of Lemaitre squatting (not very deep) and doing oly lifts, if I remember correctly. Vids of Asafa benching and doing stepups have been passed around numerous times. Vid and photos of Bolt doing leg press, power clean and bench. Vid of Shelly Ann Fraser doing heavy deadlifts, so it stands to reason Powell has done them as well.
It’s a fact that Ben Johnson, Mo Greene, Donovan Bailey, Tyson Gay squat and did it with substantial weight. They all run in the same neighborhood as the ones you mentioned.
What’s your point troll?[/quote]
I asked for evidence?.
My main concern is the top 3, Bolt, Gay, & Powell.
Also, the guys with huge verts at the combines, big squats, quad dominant but can’t throw down a 40.
I’m not looking for you. It’s there. You are just running your mouth as usual.
I’ll give you a great example of big short sprint and big vert outside of the football examples everyone has already given you. Julio Jones this year big vert, big slj, big 40.
Steve Langton – USA Bobsled
Vert 40″
Squat over 250k
30m with 1m fly 3.4x that is good for at least 4.4
Cedric Grand – Swiss Bobsled
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.6 while he was a bobsledder
Beat Hefti
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.7 while he was a bobsledders
Grand and Hefti also ran 100’s in sub 10.5 at roughly 220 lbs and presumably off of zero speed endurance training.
Any ideas on how these guys train? My friend trained Julio in high school in mobile bama.
I’m not looking for you. It’s there. You are just running your mouth as usual.
I’ll give you a great example of big short sprint and big vert outside of the football examples everyone has already given you. Julio Jones this year big vert, big slj, big 40.
Steve Langton – USA Bobsled
Vert 40″
Squat over 250k
30m with 1m fly 3.4x that is good for at least 4.4Cedric Grand – Swiss Bobsled
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.6 while he was a bobsledderBeat Hefti
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.7 while he was a bobsleddersGrand and Hefti also ran 100’s in sub 10.5 at roughly 220 lbs and presumably off of zero speed endurance training.
You’ve seen how Langton trains. Hartman trains him. It doesn’t sound a whole lot different from how Deweese is training some of them now.
I don’t know how the Swiss train. I’ve seen video of sprints on the track and huge squats and bench. Huge squats week of competition even. One thing is for sure it will be heavy weights, sprints, sled pushes an probably sled pulls.
What did your friend do with Julio?
Any ideas on how these guys train? My friend trained Julio in high school in mobile bama.
[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1312946536"]I’m not looking for you. It’s there. You are just running your mouth as usual.
I’ll give you a great example of big short sprint and big vert outside of the football examples everyone has already given you. Julio Jones this year big vert, big slj, big 40.
Steve Langton – USA Bobsled
Vert 40″
Squat over 250k
30m with 1m fly 3.4x that is good for at least 4.4Cedric Grand – Swiss Bobsled
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.6 while he was a bobsledderBeat Hefti
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.7 while he was a bobsleddersGrand and Hefti also ran 100’s in sub 10.5 at roughly 220 lbs and presumably off of zero speed endurance training.
[/quote]
Jason Poeth is a Gayle Hatch guy – it’s typical Hatch type training – lots of ol’s-squats-presses.
You’ve seen how Langton trains. Hartman trains him. It doesn’t sound a whole lot different from how Deweese is training some of them now.
I don’t know how the Swiss train. I’ve seen video of sprints on the track and huge squats and bench. Huge squats week of competition even. One thing is for sure it will be heavy weights, sprints, sled pushes an probably sled pulls.
What did your friend do with Julio?
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1312947427"]Any ideas on how these guys train? My friend trained Julio in high school in mobile bama.
[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1312946536"]I’m not looking for you. It’s there. You are just running your mouth as usual.
I’ll give you a great example of big short sprint and big vert outside of the football examples everyone has already given you. Julio Jones this year big vert, big slj, big 40.
Steve Langton – USA Bobsled
Vert 40″
Squat over 250k
30m with 1m fly 3.4x that is good for at least 4.4Cedric Grand – Swiss Bobsled
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.6 while he was a bobsledderBeat Hefti
Squat over 250k
60m in comp 6.7 while he was a bobsleddersGrand and Hefti also ran 100’s in sub 10.5 at roughly 220 lbs and presumably off of zero speed endurance training.
[/quote][/quote]
Brandon,
Those who know will continue to be fast and those who don’t know will continue to be slow. Simple. That’s the problem with this site. There are too many rookies not willing to listen to the guys that have been in the game for a long time.
Cheers!
Without the blinging first 30m?.
If Carl Lewis was so efficient at 30m, then why did he trail at 30m? I don’t know, but that makes me think he was the least efficient, but he was able to apply more force decelerate less than everyone else. At the professional level the elite sprinters want to be as fast as they can be at 30m. You only lose time down the track so 30m is critical in a race. Sure it’s a portion and you have 70m left, but at that level there is very little margin for error.
To develop a faster 30m I believe you need to be heavily involved with OL’s, squats, jump squat, SL exercises, etc.
In the weightroom
Squat 2x per wk
OL 2-3x per wk
SL can be done on the 2nd squat day
On the track
Pretty self explanatory
Hefti = STUD
In the weightroom
Squat 2x per wk
OL 2-3x per wk
SL can be done on the 2nd squat day
Pretty common amongst all verters at the combines.
[quote author="Danny Tutskey" date="1312954666"]In the weightroom
Squat 2x per wk
OL 2-3x per wk
SL can be done on the 2nd squat day
Pretty common amongst all verters at the combines.[/quote]
Depends who you are talking about. the stronger you are the less you need to squat, 300-365 is cake walk for football players.
[quote author="Danny Tutskey" date="1312954666"]In the weightroom
Squat 2x per wk
OL 2-3x per wk
SL can be done on the 2nd squat day
Pretty common amongst all verters at the combines.[/quote]
Pretty common among all the people I listed.
Hefti is certainly freaky it seems, especially since he is not fast “looking”. I believe now that he is a pilot Langton is the best pusher in the world and looks the part. Looks like Arnold.
JC, most everyone agrees that heavy weights year round dampen elasticity, but we have just given you examples that refute your claim about vert and strength.
Without the blinging first 30m?.
You use this clip………..LOL
He watched Ben Johnson from behind the entire way. What a joke.
Use something like Donovan Bailey’s WR run as an example.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE7-JOs3VFE[/youtube]
JC, most everyone agrees that heavy weights year round dampen elasticity.
You guys are putting the frighteners on me.
Brandon,
Those who know will continue to be fast and those who don’t know will continue to be slow. Simple. That’s the problem with this site. There are too many rookies not willing to listen to the guys that have been in the game for a long time.
Cheers!
i agree with you there are alot of younger coaches that don’t listen to older more experienced coaches. Me myself not being one. If a coach has experienced success it still doesn’t mean he is a good coach. I would rather want to know what they did, why they did it and under what circumstances did they do it.
So being experienced alone doesn’t qualify someone as a good coach or someone you need to listen to. Like Tom Tellez says, “don’t rate me by the success of my athletes, rate me by what I gave them to be successful.”
I know ALOT of coaches that have been around for a while and are terrible and I know alot that have been around a long time and are VERY GOOD. i know alot that do some terrible training practices but have great success because they have talented athletes and others that have great practical application but have terrible athletes and minimum resources.
I usually only lend my ear to coaches that are able to explain the logic behind what they do espcially and if they have had success that’s another reason to listen. After knowing they have a sound basic understanding of exercise science and they understand how to apply this knowledge then I will sit and listen all day. But knowing and applying are two different things. So please remember that while there are rookies not willing to listen to the older coaches, everyone learns from everyone. Older coaches should be willing to listen to younger coaches as well. I listen to older coaches, younger coaches, my athletes, middle school coaches, teachers etc… I learn from them all.
Thanks for the conversation. It was very helpful for me. Hope you can say the same.
Something you might find of interest.
3:20. (But watch the whole vid anyway).
Same delay.
[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1312939849"][quote author="JC Cooper" date="1312935269"]Can we have some evidence of Bolt, Gay, Powell, Lemaitre, Lewis etc actually squatting?.
I haven’t personally seen none as of yet.
Or are they doing it in the secrecy of there bedrooms?, lol.
There was some vid of Lemaitre squatting (not very deep) and doing oly lifts, if I remember correctly. Vids of Asafa benching and doing stepups have been passed around numerous times. Vid and photos of Bolt doing leg press, power clean and bench. Vid of Shelly Ann Fraser doing heavy deadlifts, so it stands to reason Powell has done them as well.
It’s a fact that Ben Johnson, Mo Greene, Donovan Bailey, Tyson Gay squat and did it with substantial weight. They all run in the same neighborhood as the ones you mentioned.
What’s your point troll?[/quote]
I asked for evidence?.
My main concern is the top 3, Bolt, Gay, & Powell.
Also, the guys with huge verts at the combines, big squats, quad dominant but can’t throw down a 40.[/quote]
Take it for what its worth- https://twitter.com/#!/TysonLGay/statuses/76416339148935168
[quote author="JC Cooper" date="1312945176"][quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1312939849"][quote author="JC Cooper" date="1312935269"]Can we have some evidence of Bolt, Gay, Powell, Lemaitre, Lewis etc actually squatting?.
I haven’t personally seen none as of yet.
Or are they doing it in the secrecy of there bedrooms?, lol.
There was some vid of Lemaitre squatting (not very deep) and doing oly lifts, if I remember correctly. Vids of Asafa benching and doing stepups have been passed around numerous times. Vid and photos of Bolt doing leg press, power clean and bench. Vid of Shelly Ann Fraser doing heavy deadlifts, so it stands to reason Powell has done them as well.
It’s a fact that Ben Johnson, Mo Greene, Donovan Bailey, Tyson Gay squat and did it with substantial weight. They all run in the same neighborhood as the ones you mentioned.
What’s your point troll?[/quote]
I asked for evidence?.
My main concern is the top 3, Bolt, Gay, & Powell.
Also, the guys with huge verts at the combines, big squats, quad dominant but can’t throw down a 40.[/quote]
Take it for what its worth- https://twitter.com/#!/TysonLGay/statuses/76416339148935168%5B/quote%5D
Everyone has shown this clown numerous times. Gave him examples of big vert, big squat, and speed all in one person.
Tyson said in an IAAF Q&A chat last year that he squats 400 and benches 250. I have it saved. This guys is a clown.
Here is Lemaitre doing squats and other lifts. Of course the clown will say he’s not really doing squats.
Shelly Ann doing deads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWs07qcBkA&list=FL9dXGqXt51G4&index=66
He would argue with a stump and say a tree never was there.
Typical europeans half fast squats…for sure he adds heavy 1/2 and or parallel squats.
There was a swedish video of powell squatting, + some friend saw him and the others MVP training in Italy…lunges, frotn squats, someone back squats.
Hefti is a Pilot now, and still posts amazing push times in the 2 man.
regarding all the others beasts, I’d add Kevin Kuske, Germany…as a JUnior run in the 10″50 area…but he is a Huge 6″4 240 pounds guy…and pushes very hard!Bobsled is very popular in Swiss and Germany..athletes have lots of sponsorships and are quite popular.
Fast 30m for me is a no brainer:
Periodize your training first and foremost, increasing general and max strength squatting mainly, adding OL and post chain work.
Add bounding, med ball heaves , short sprint resisted and unresisted…and you’haRDLY GO WRONG.
Observing the Two man competition you can’t hide as a pilot or with superior equipment. Note Kuske dominating everyone on pushes as he is freaking Drago as a former athlete use to say.
[quote author="the_chosen_one" date="1312931694"]This is laughable. You’ve shown data that is within hundredths of each other. Show splits of someone who ran slower than 4.0. Do you think for one minute these guys are throtteling back? LOL…Leroy Burrell didn’t win obviously, not because his acceleration or 30m time was inadequate but because his top end speed & speed endurance was not as good as Carls. The data points this out! Look at the splits. Moreover, Leroy was much more muscular and powerful than Carl as stated by Tellez serveral times which would correlate to his 30m being faster.
Further more, the better sprinters maximize stride rate throughtout the start by leveraging their strenghth to produce horizontal forces. The by product of producing maximal horizontal forces is a “fast or faster 30m” It is proper mechanics that will allow you to produce the forces required to run faster. Bottomline as I stated, your 30m time is an indicator for the rest of the race. Again, look at the splits,
Never put the cart before the horse. As most have said, Strength ie squats etc and specific strength ie hills or sled pulls are required to improve your 30m time.
ok im going to tear your argument down peice by peice lol.
1. Do I think these guys are throttling back? no but they are accelerating correctly and efficiently. Just because its a fast 30m to you doesn’t mean its a fast 30m for them. 3.8 and 3.7 for carl lewis and leroy burrell is different then 3.7-3.8 for joe blow trying to run 10.7. Carl and Leroy are going thru the phases of their race and hitting these times and joe blow would probably pop a blood vessel in his brain from trying to hit those times and the only way he would hit the same times is by being quick. 30m is so early in the race that you can do alot of stuff wrong and still look good. The body can go all out for 7 secs. If we were talking just a 30m dash, quick would be good but we are talking 100m. running faster then 4.0 for 30m says you can accelerate but it doesn’t say you can accelerate correctly.
2.I didn’t say he lost because of his 30m time. The point I’m trying to make is some one with a slower 30m time can still win a race. HINT HINT getting to 30m FIRST isn’t that important. yeah of cource carl’s speed endurance was better but carl’s speed endurance was better then maurice greene’s also but maurice would beat him in the 100m. He was stronger then carl but he knew how to gradually come out of his drive phase and not be quick to 30.
3. Squates, hills, sleds help condition your body and get it the tools it needs acceleration. It doesn’t mean you are going to do it correctly.
https://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/analysis-of-bolts-958-wr.html
Check this page leroy Burrel 30m was faster then tyson gay, asafa powell and tied with Bolt. Doc patton for 3.93 and ran 10.3 in this race. lol Im going to guess leroy was a little quick in this race because I don’t think anybody can accelerate better than asafa powell and leroy’s 30m was faster then his. But then again he may have just been on.
however you’re missing the whole ship buddy. Im trying to tell you is if you run 30 in under 4 the right way thats good but if you bust your whole load to get to 30 in under 4.0 then you will lose if you are going against good smart sprinters. Telling a younger kid he needs to be 3.8 to be fast is wrong. A younger kid may have to be 3.99 at 30m in order for him to accelerate efficiently. Most elite sprinters hit 30m in 3.8-3.9 and they still tie up which leads me to believe alot of them are hitting 3.8-3.9 trying to be quick. Steve mullings even said the difference in his race is that he stopped trying to be rushing.
https://www.trackalerts.com/news/lead-stories/4676-mullings-not-scared-of-bolt-and-powell
“I just figured it out, how to do it,” Mullings said. “I always rushed my first 30 metres, (but) now I have more patience.
IM DONE LOL[/quote]
Looks like we know exactly what he figured out. Do you still want to use this as an example? I’m thinking not.
whats helped me the most is trying to get as close to squatting 2x your body weight as possible. acceleration can be greatly improved my gained in strength because often those strength gains are easily converted to power with plyometric work like depth jumps but more importantly sprinting 2-3 times a week. also running hill sprints have helped me a lot, but a weighted sled or parachute is better.
[quote author="Brandon Morton" date="1312934286"][quote author="the_chosen_one" date="1312931694"]This is laughable. You’ve shown data that is within hundredths of each other. Show splits of someone who ran slower than 4.0. Do you think for one minute these guys are throtteling back? LOL…Leroy Burrell didn’t win obviously, not because his acceleration or 30m time was inadequate but because his top end speed & speed endurance was not as good as Carls. The data points this out! Look at the splits. Moreover, Leroy was much more muscular and powerful than Carl as stated by Tellez serveral times which would correlate to his 30m being faster.
Further more, the better sprinters maximize stride rate throughtout the start by leveraging their strenghth to produce horizontal forces. The by product of producing maximal horizontal forces is a “fast or faster 30m” It is proper mechanics that will allow you to produce the forces required to run faster. Bottomline as I stated, your 30m time is an indicator for the rest of the race. Again, look at the splits,
Never put the cart before the horse. As most have said, Strength ie squats etc and specific strength ie hills or sled pulls are required to improve your 30m time.
ok im going to tear your argument down peice by peice lol.
1. Do I think these guys are throttling back? no but they are accelerating correctly and efficiently. Just because its a fast 30m to you doesn’t mean its a fast 30m for them. 3.8 and 3.7 for carl lewis and leroy burrell is different then 3.7-3.8 for joe blow trying to run 10.7. Carl and Leroy are going thru the phases of their race and hitting these times and joe blow would probably pop a blood vessel in his brain from trying to hit those times and the only way he would hit the same times is by being quick. 30m is so early in the race that you can do alot of stuff wrong and still look good. The body can go all out for 7 secs. If we were talking just a 30m dash, quick would be good but we are talking 100m. running faster then 4.0 for 30m says you can accelerate but it doesn’t say you can accelerate correctly.
2.I didn’t say he lost because of his 30m time. The point I’m trying to make is some one with a slower 30m time can still win a race. HINT HINT getting to 30m FIRST isn’t that important. yeah of cource carl’s speed endurance was better but carl’s speed endurance was better then maurice greene’s also but maurice would beat him in the 100m. He was stronger then carl but he knew how to gradually come out of his drive phase and not be quick to 30.
3. Squates, hills, sleds help condition your body and get it the tools it needs acceleration. It doesn’t mean you are going to do it correctly.
https://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/analysis-of-bolts-958-wr.html
Check this page leroy Burrel 30m was faster then tyson gay, asafa powell and tied with Bolt. Doc patton for 3.93 and ran 10.3 in this race. lol Im going to guess leroy was a little quick in this race because I don’t think anybody can accelerate better than asafa powell and leroy’s 30m was faster then his. But then again he may have just been on.
however you’re missing the whole ship buddy. Im trying to tell you is if you run 30 in under 4 the right way thats good but if you bust your whole load to get to 30 in under 4.0 then you will lose if you are going against good smart sprinters. Telling a younger kid he needs to be 3.8 to be fast is wrong. A younger kid may have to be 3.99 at 30m in order for him to accelerate efficiently. Most elite sprinters hit 30m in 3.8-3.9 and they still tie up which leads me to believe alot of them are hitting 3.8-3.9 trying to be quick. Steve mullings even said the difference in his race is that he stopped trying to be rushing.
https://www.trackalerts.com/news/lead-stories/4676-mullings-not-scared-of-bolt-and-powell
“I just figured it out, how to do it,” Mullings said. “I always rushed my first 30 metres, (but) now I have more patience.
IM DONE LOL[/quote]
Looks like we know exactly what he figured out. Do you still want to use this as an example? I’m thinking not.[/quote]
I like adding fuel to the fire. Pfaff is on video talking about how if Donovan was first to the 30 then he did his phases wrong and would lose. That sounds like efficient race modeling. For some people that means not going balls out for the first 30 because it affects form and race distribution later on, making the time slower.
[quote author="the_chosen_one" date="1317948330"][quote author="Brandon Morton" date="1312934286"][quote author="the_chosen_one" date="1312931694"]This is laughable. You’ve shown data that is within hundredths of each other. Show splits of someone who ran slower than 4.0. Do you think for one minute these guys are throtteling back? LOL…Leroy Burrell didn’t win obviously, not because his acceleration or 30m time was inadequate but because his top end speed & speed endurance was not as good as Carls. The data points this out! Look at the splits. Moreover, Leroy was much more muscular and powerful than Carl as stated by Tellez serveral times which would correlate to his 30m being faster.
Further more, the better sprinters maximize stride rate throughtout the start by leveraging their strenghth to produce horizontal forces. The by product of producing maximal horizontal forces is a “fast or faster 30m” It is proper mechanics that will allow you to produce the forces required to run faster. Bottomline as I stated, your 30m time is an indicator for the rest of the race. Again, look at the splits,
Never put the cart before the horse. As most have said, Strength ie squats etc and specific strength ie hills or sled pulls are required to improve your 30m time.
ok im going to tear your argument down peice by peice lol.
1. Do I think these guys are throttling back? no but they are accelerating correctly and efficiently. Just because its a fast 30m to you doesn’t mean its a fast 30m for them. 3.8 and 3.7 for carl lewis and leroy burrell is different then 3.7-3.8 for joe blow trying to run 10.7. Carl and Leroy are going thru the phases of their race and hitting these times and joe blow would probably pop a blood vessel in his brain from trying to hit those times and the only way he would hit the same times is by being quick. 30m is so early in the race that you can do alot of stuff wrong and still look good. The body can go all out for 7 secs. If we were talking just a 30m dash, quick would be good but we are talking 100m. running faster then 4.0 for 30m says you can accelerate but it doesn’t say you can accelerate correctly.
2.I didn’t say he lost because of his 30m time. The point I’m trying to make is some one with a slower 30m time can still win a race. HINT HINT getting to 30m FIRST isn’t that important. yeah of cource carl’s speed endurance was better but carl’s speed endurance was better then maurice greene’s also but maurice would beat him in the 100m. He was stronger then carl but he knew how to gradually come out of his drive phase and not be quick to 30.
3. Squates, hills, sleds help condition your body and get it the tools it needs acceleration. It doesn’t mean you are going to do it correctly.
https://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/analysis-of-bolts-958-wr.html
Check this page leroy Burrel 30m was faster then tyson gay, asafa powell and tied with Bolt. Doc patton for 3.93 and ran 10.3 in this race. lol Im going to guess leroy was a little quick in this race because I don’t think anybody can accelerate better than asafa powell and leroy’s 30m was faster then his. But then again he may have just been on.
however you’re missing the whole ship buddy. Im trying to tell you is if you run 30 in under 4 the right way thats good but if you bust your whole load to get to 30 in under 4.0 then you will lose if you are going against good smart sprinters. Telling a younger kid he needs to be 3.8 to be fast is wrong. A younger kid may have to be 3.99 at 30m in order for him to accelerate efficiently. Most elite sprinters hit 30m in 3.8-3.9 and they still tie up which leads me to believe alot of them are hitting 3.8-3.9 trying to be quick. Steve mullings even said the difference in his race is that he stopped trying to be rushing.
https://www.trackalerts.com/news/lead-stories/4676-mullings-not-scared-of-bolt-and-powell
“I just figured it out, how to do it,” Mullings said. “I always rushed my first 30 metres, (but) now I have more patience.
IM DONE LOL[/quote]
Looks like we know exactly what he figured out. Do you still want to use this as an example? I’m thinking not.[/quote]
I like adding fuel to the fire. Pfaff is on video talking about how if Donovan was first to the 30 then he did his phases wrong and would lose. That sounds like efficient race modeling. For some people that means not going balls out for the first 30 because it affects form and race distribution later on, making the time slower.[/quote]
Great point Justin, Its what I was trying to say.
Also to “chosen one” regardless of Mullings testing positive it wasn’t a matter of how strong he was, it was a question of how do you accelerate correctly. Now while I do believe he was doping, doping doesn’t equal a efficient acceleration. Ask the 100s of guys who have doped and still can’t accelerate efficiently. I believe he had found his race model, now did drugs allow him to get stronger and give him some tools so that he could accelerate correctly? MAYBE, I don’t know.
But the fact still remains that he was able to accelerate more efficiently which is my whole argument.Efficient acceleration equals the right way to run. Now how do you go about giving yourself the strength levels and tools to do that is where you are heading with the steve mullings example.
This is a debate of two different race philosophies yours which is thinking if you run fast to 30m then your 100m will be fast and mine(along with many others, don’t want it to sound like I made it up lol) which is thinking if I go for power and full range of motion then I will accelerate later into the race and finish better. Look at Usain Bolt, Donovan Bailey and Maurice Green, walter dix, tyson gay etc… compared to the other sprinters that are trying to get to 30m fast, they are just trying to accelerate as late into the race as possible without getting to far behind then at about 60m the other guys fade while they remain at top speed which they reached later because they didn’t rush to 30m. they aren’t going into the race thinking “How fast can I get to 30m?” They are racing 100m not 30m because they don’t care how fast their 30m is they just care about their energy distribution at 30m. If they get there at 3.6 and lose they will be pissed but if they get there in 3.9 and win then they will be happy. Its a perception thing. Hopefully this answers your question about if I want to still use this as an example. Let me know if you have anymore questions.
