How should I improve on finishing my races?
The last 30 m
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Participant
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Participant
You could do stuff like:
1. ins and outs
2. 60-90m flys w/2-4 min. rest
3. 3 x 3 x 30 sprints @ 95% w/60 seconds between reps and 3-5 min. between sets -
Member
Actually, Gov, I think those runs would help with the middle portion of his race and his overall speed. To help you finish the 100m dash, you want to work the SE (80-150m) runs. #3 might work, but the first two work absolute speed rather than speed endurance.
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Participant
I didn't know what events he ran 400. Having said that, a 60-90m sprint is always considered speed endurance I thought?
Now if you want to work on SE from 80-150, how might you attack it? Meaning, give me a sample workout with proper rest intervals.
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Participant
I, as in she :eureka: run the 100m and 200m if that helps
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Participant
I apologize. I thought you were a guy. ANYWAY, for the 100, 200, I still stand by my opinion on it. Lets see what others think.
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Participant
Well 400,
60m is getting into speed endurance for a girl. You reach top speed faster than she would. Also, you can make almost any distance a speed endurance session if you shorten the rest accordingly.
[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]My favorite workout is:
110/120/150/120/110 with proper rest. Killer workout but it works wonders for the 200m and would really help the end of the 100m.
This seems like a great workout. How much recovery would you get for that? Also, can you do a session like this right now, or wait until time to peak?
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Member
True, 60m is probably getting into speed endurance for your typical HS female athlete, but if I reach top-speed faster than her, it would make it a speed endurance session for me as well. Maybe you meant to word that differently?
With that session I give myself 8-10minutes rest, maybe up to 12 minutes, but usually when I do it (closer to the end), I'm in good enough shape where I can bust out quality runs on only 8-10min rest. However, one thing you could stick by, which I might at times depending on shape, is the 1min/10m run theory. Then you'd get up to 15 min rest which still isn't too bad. When you do the workout depends on what kind of athlete you're training and how you're training them. So you know what to do 😉
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Participant
Here's my question. What are YOU trying to accomplish with this session? Lactate buildup or special endurance oriented? Couldn't you reduce the rest to 3-5 min. and get better results?
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Member
I use that session for SE. I use it to help in my 200m more than anything as far as helping with maintaining speed not dying "the last 30m".
Shortening rest would obviously not be what I want considering the lactic tolerance work I like to knock out early in the season and use the end to work on lactic power.
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Participant
So in lets say early to mid Pre-Comp. you could do that workout with 3-5 min. rest for lactic tolerance and then during mid to late competition phase stretch it out to 8-12 min. for lactic power? Is that what you mean?
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Participant
Ok, well in that case, I may have gotten my whole program mixed up. I say that because months ago, when we were discussing training macros, I remember you saying it was SE1 or SE2 (depending on whether long or short sprinter) is done first, then Speed Endurance. Now you say the other way around. Please set me straight because now I am confused.
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Member
No, I still stand by my theory that the SE 1 and 2 versions come before SE. See, what you have to understand is that to make that a LAT workout, you don't necessarily have to go in the 90% + range. Go 85% with short rests and you've got an Int. Tempo workout aka Lactic Tolerance workout. I guess I wasn't clear…sorry 🙁
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Participant
400,
I understand that part. But what I'm NOT clear on is this. . .
1. The way to go, as I understand it, is SE1, SE2 (or vice versa), then last is Speed Endurance. But if that's the case then you are going Lactic Power first (SE1 and 2), and then Lactic Tolerance (Speed Endurance). I thought you build lactic tolerance first, THEN lactic power?
2. And here's another question. If you can get the same Lactic Tolerance effect with 85-90%, then what would be the purpose of upping the intensity to 90-95 (or more) percent?
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Member
Gov,
Alright man, calm down there 😛
1 – Speed Endurance is not lactic tolerance work because the rest is near-maximal allowing for LA to be flushed out. You SHOULD build LAT before power. There are different types of speed endurance (and I was hoping not to get into this) such as neuromuscular speed endurance and a MaxV-like speed endurance. I'm not too well versed, which is why I didn't want to get into it, but know that when I say SE, I'm referring to speed endurance….the 3x3x60m runs are more neuromuscular-based and should be used for 100m sprinters. JJ got into this before I believe.
2 – Higher levels of lactate to deal with.
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Participant
Ok, fair enough.
Well here's why I brought this up. My athletes were doing LAT work (2 x 600) for 3 weeks. Then they moved down to 300's with 15 min. rest. Now when they did the 300 session they were not only hitting the goal times provided but in some cases exceeding them, which leads me to believe that they were not experiencing lactate (unless I got it all wrong of what was being accomplished). But then when they step on the track the times they run don't add up. For instance, one girl was doing a session of 4 x 250 @ 90% (in her case, 41.5), but she did all 4 of them in 39.5-40.0. However, when she runs in the meets her time at 250 is MUCH slower. So what gives?
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Participant
And one more time since I am slow. . . .
The 3 x 3 x 60 speed endurance workout I was planning on using probably the week of April 26 (not the coming week but the one after that). I was gonna give that to my short sprinters with about 60 seconds rest and maybe 4 min. rest between sets. Is this good to do, or would that still be too early to do a workout like that. Like I said before, my main concern is peaking them too early. Thoughts?
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Member
1 – Maybe the girls are nervous and freeze up at meets? I don't know b/c it doesn't make sense, but it does happen (READ: me in the 400m).
2 – You could probably give the 100m sprinters that workout now and it not affect them, but I'm not 100% sure to be honest.
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
1 – Maybe the girls are nervous and freeze up at meets? I don't know b/c it doesn't make sense, but it does happen (READ: me in the 400m).2 – You could probably give the 100m sprinters that workout now and it not affect them, but I'm not 100% sure to be honest.
QUIK, mike? Thoughts?
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Anyone?
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KeymasterI think Eric's first point could very well be true and I agree with the second one.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
Here's my question. What are YOU trying to accomplish with this session? Lactate buildup or special endurance oriented? Couldn't you reduce the rest to 3-5 min. and get better results?[i]Originally posted by 400Stud[/i]
Shortening rest would obviously not be what I want considering the lactic tolerance work I like to knock out early in the season and use the end to work on lactic power.I know what you mean by that 400. But what if my athletes were in good enough shape to where I could turn up the heat on them and only give them 3-5 min. recovery. Could I still do that, or is it still not a good idea? My purpose would be more lactic tolerance buildup.
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Member
If your purpose is lactic tolerance, then yes, 3-5 mins rest would be sufficient. However, I'm thinking that lactic tolerance work should've been taken care of early in the season and you should be working more towards lactic power work right now. What is your idea of "good shape" for them? If it's good lactic tolerance, then lactic power would be the way to go.
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Participant
What is the difference between doing Glycolytic (I think I spelled it right) Speed Endurance, Anaerobic Speed Endurance and Alactic Speed Endurance?
400,
I understand exactly what you mean if they were in good "lactic tolerance" shape. There are a few of them that are not IMO. Thanks for the info. -
Member
I'm honestly not the best to ask to differentiate between all of those for you. The only thing I "know" is that alactic speed endurance involves NO lactic acid (I THINK). Glycolytic is the LA power training and Anaerobic would be LA tolerance training…if my mind serves me correct, but I'm not 100% certain.
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Participant
Anyone else know what the differences are and why you would train one vs. the other?
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Participant
Anyone?
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Keymaster
The terms might actually be mixed up. I would refer to them as Anaerobic glycolytic speed endurance and anaerobic alactic speed endurance. In both cases, the oxygen demand of the exercise exceeds the oxygen supply to the muscles. In the case of anaerobic glycolytic speed endurance, anaerobic glycolysis is the primary energy system and lactate will be produced. In the case of anaerobic alactic speed endurance the ATP-PC system is the primary energy system and little or no lactate is produced.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
The terms might actually be mixed up. I would refer to them as Anaerobic glycolytic speed endurance and anaerobic alactic speed endurance. In both cases, the oxygen demand of the exercise exceeds the oxygen supply to the muscles. In the case of anaerobic glycolytic speed endurance, anaerobic glycolysis is the primary energy system and lactate will be produced. In the case of anaerobic alactic speed endurance the ATP-PC system is the primary energy system and little or no lactate is produced.This I already know but my question is, why would you train one versus the other?
For example, I have a training model that I use (as you may or may not know). It lists different types of training as follows:
(30-80m) – Anaerobic Alactic Short Speed Endurance; rest is normally supposed to be b/w 1-2 min./rep at 90-95%
(< 80m) – Anaerobic Glycolitic Short Speed Endurance; rest is normally 1 min./rep at 90-95%Why would you do one type of training vs. the other?
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Member
Anaerobic Alactic Short Speed Endurance – Helps more with 100m sprinters seeing as how LA is not the main culprit in deceleration (as none is felt or really shown to be present), but is actually more a nervous system thing (as pointed out by JJ). Thus, the need to train with or under a state of LA presence isn't really needed.
Anaerobic Glycolytic Short Speed Endurance – Helps the 200m/400m sprinters as LA IS present during the ends of the races and glycolysis (let's see if I remember correctly) is the process the body goes through in which LA is produced when insufficient amounts of ATP are present. Thus, these workouts are used to teach the body to adapt and even "buffer" against LA presence allowing for faster running during a state of LA.
Did I get it right, anybody?
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Participant
I'm not 100% sure whether you're right or wrong 400, but based off the studying and reading I've been doing the past few weeks, you may be right.
For example, you're saying:
3 x 3 x 60 w/60 sec. rest b/w reps and 5 min. b/w sets is used for a 100m sprinter because minimal LA is built up.
3 x 3 x 100 w/60 sec. rest b/w reps and 3 min. b/w sets is for a 400m runner because you get severe LA buildup from this workout.
Is that what you are saying 400?
Thoughts anyone else?
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