Top 10 Myths of Sprinting Mechanics

    Posted In: Blog Discussion

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 26, 2007 at 7:09 am #13254

          On my way back from Sarasota today I came up with a list of the top ten myths I hear about sprinting mechanics. Check it out and let me know what I left off. The elbow angle must stay at 90 degrees. Who came up with this? What’s the rationale? What’s the benefit? Ask someone to provide answers to those questions next time you hear that ridiculous idea. Not only is it not beneficial, it

          Continue reading…

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          coachformerlyknownas on July 26, 2007 at 8:14 pm #67972

          Some of this is quick and dirty over cueing by coaches who are looking for a positive result.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 26, 2007 at 10:12 pm #65833

          Yeah that's always the case but at least half of them don't fall in to this category. I think any good coach makes cues that are "wrong" but are necessary to achieve the desired result but some of these points listed could not possibly fall in to this category under any circumstance….like the 90 degree elbow angle. 

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          tcnj28 on July 27, 2007 at 12:44 am #65834

          Thoughts and questions…..

          1st….I have heard you say that the "90" degree arm cue is basically terrible.  I have still not been able to figure out how telling children, who are trying to learn how to run efficietly, that a 90 degree arm action is incorrect.  I understand that it is impossible to keep it at 90 degrees but as a semi-cue and learning point, i cant see how it at all could be negative.  Please let me know your thoughts on why it is so bad.

          2nd…on arms controlling the body.. I have heard this from many people and I have no idea the truth.  You say that everyone can move their arms as fast as an elite sprinter.  But would that also mean that anyone could move their legs as fast too?  If i am correct, when you run, your legs and arms have to go at the same speed otherwise you would end up having your same leg and same arm going at the same time.  It would throw everythign off if arms and legs went at diffrent speeds.  So doesn't one have to affect the other????

          thanks

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on July 27, 2007 at 6:43 am #65835

          Just because your legs are moving as fast as an elite runner, it doesn't mean your body is covering the same amount of distance.

        • Participant
          mortac8 on July 27, 2007 at 7:57 am #65836

          your legs move as fast as an elite runners until they hit the ground…

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 27, 2007 at 10:14 am #65837

          Regarding the 90 degree issue. Please tell me why you think it will work? I can give a couple reasons why it makes no sense at all. I've never met anyone who could rationally explain why 90 degrees is the best. No other joint in the body stays at a fixed angle during running…what makes the elbow joint so different? The reality is that to counterbalance the dynamic movements of the leg action, the elbow angle must open and close throughout the running stride.

          Secondly, the arms and legs don't move at the same speed. The arms wait for the legs at the end points of their upward swing. This indicates that the arm swing speed is not limiting speed. Also, as Mortac said, it's primarily what happens on the ground that matters.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          tcnj28 on July 27, 2007 at 10:51 am #65838

          So how would you cue what the arms should do,  to a young athlete?  Like I have said, I work with young athletes and I would think the reason people cue with 90 degrees is because it is the easiest way(that i know of)to explain to a younger athlete how to run with proper form within their own abilities.  They dont have enough control of their limbs to be able to "open and close throughout" without really messing up their running form.  So to prevent that from happening, you make an arbitrary number that a lot of people can relate to and understand and have them stick to that and learn how to control their arms.  Later on in training once they have full control of their body, through having them cognitively think about where their arms should be, you can start to have them advance.  I understand that in elite athletes you can have them run like but do you think it is bad to teach a young athlete to start that his arms to be at 'about' 90 degrees. 

          I know its ELITEtrack.com but not everyone here trains just the elite.

        • Participant
          mortac8 on July 27, 2007 at 5:42 pm #65839

          I have coached a few dozen sprinters many very low level and I don't think I've ever used a cue about arm angles.  For the most part it seems kids know how to run until someone / some sport mucks it up.

        • Participant
          J Kilgore on July 27, 2007 at 6:03 pm #65840

          The only thing I really use with the arms (really the shoulders) but is to relax…I don't want them shrugging their shoulders up to their ears.  I think that the arm swing tends to take care of itself.

        • Participant
          flight05 on July 28, 2007 at 2:00 am #65841

          i agree…the more u try to keep ur arms at 90 the more tense you get..just dont be non-efficient with them.

        • Participant
          Carl Valle on July 28, 2007 at 9:22 am #65842

          coaching the arms is about stiffness and looseness….loose elbows and we have drummer boy

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 28, 2007 at 11:16 am #65843

          So how would you cue what the arms should do,  to a young athlete?  Like I have said, I work with young athletes and I would think the reason people cue with 90 degrees is because it is the easiest way(that i know of)to explain to a younger athlete how to run with proper form within their own abilities.  They dont have enough control of their limbs to be able to "open and close throughout" without really messing up their running form.  So to prevent that from happening, you make an arbitrary number that a lot of people can relate to and understand and have them stick to that and learn how to control their arms.  Later on in training once they have full control of their body, through having them cognitively think about where their arms should be, you can start to have them advance.  I understand that in elite athletes you can have them run like but do you think it is bad to teach a young athlete to start that his arms to be at 'about' 90 degrees. 

          I know its ELITEtrack.com but not everyone here trains just the elite.

          There's a time and a place for practically every cue. If this works for you that's great, as long as you know that once the arm swing problems have 'cleared up' that you aren't actually trying to have the athlete keep their elbow angle at 90 degrees.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Daniel Andrews on December 7, 2007 at 9:41 am #65844

          Shouldn't a problem with arm swing likely result from something else being done wrong down the kinetic chain say at the hips?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on January 8, 2008 at 10:20 pm #65845

          Shouldn't a problem with arm swing likely result from something else being done wrong down the kinetic chain say at the hips?

          That could very well be the case…but I think there are cases where movement patterns can move down the chain as well as up.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          oshikake@ymail.com on July 26, 2011 at 9:59 pm #109410

          [b]6. Sprinters should attempt to lean forward.[/b] On the surface, this makes sense because it would appear to be a good position to apply horizontal forces to the track which would seemingly be the limiting factor in sprinting. Unfortunately this isn’t the case because not only is the body not anatomically structured to apply greater forces from this position but more importantly, horizontal forces are not the limiting factor in sprint speed.

          Another poor call Mike?.

        • Participant
          COV-GOD on July 27, 2011 at 7:15 am #109473

          Context of that picture – relaxed no one near him

          Take a look on you tube on the recent diamond league there is an excellent slow mo side on.
          I would link but that would be too easy 🙂

        • Participant
          Mccabe on July 27, 2011 at 7:24 am #109475

          This thread is from 4 years ago JC…you revive it with THAT image?

        • Participant
          Craig Pickering on July 27, 2011 at 7:31 am #109477

          [quote author="Mike Young" date="1185414010"][b]6. Sprinters should attempt to lean forward.[/b] On the surface, this makes sense because it would appear to be a good position to apply horizontal forces to the track which would seemingly be the limiting factor in sprinting. Unfortunately this isn’t the case because not only is the body not anatomically structured to apply greater forces from this position but more importantly, horizontal forces are not the limiting factor in sprint speed.

          Another poor call Mike?.[/quote]

          How do you know that isnt part of a transition from a block start?

        • Participant
          Mccabe on July 27, 2011 at 7:35 am #109478

          JC is best friends with Bolt and Powell so he probably told him personally, the same way he informed him of how he secretly uses his spine as the engine!

        • Participant
          COV-GOD on July 27, 2011 at 7:40 am #109479

          And secret foot training lol

        • Participant
          Mccabe on July 27, 2011 at 7:43 am #109480

          Block starts on grass? to avoid those pesky vibrations?

        • Participant
          oshikake@ymail.com on July 27, 2011 at 8:27 am #109483

          JC is best friends with Bolt and Powell so he probably told him personally, the same way he informed him of how he secretly uses his spine as the engine!

          And secret foot training lol

          Block starts on grass? to avoid those pesky vibrations?

          lol.

          And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

        • Participant
          oshikake@ymail.com on July 27, 2011 at 8:29 am #109484

          How do you know that isn’t part of a transition from a block start?

          I’m not sure Craig.

          I have always felt he leaned more than most.

        • Participant
          star61 on July 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm #109488

          How do you know that isnt part of a transition from a block start?

          He’s stepping over. That doesn’t happen out of the blocks.

          ***Note: Sorry, that was Craig’s quote, not JC’s.

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on July 27, 2011 at 3:11 pm #109492

          Not much forward lean here…

          That picture of bolt JC posted looks like hes running a curve.

        • Participant
          Irish100m on July 28, 2011 at 12:01 am #109433

          I’ve heard someone say the average person has the same ‘turnover’/stride frequency as an elite sprinter

          That is complete horeshit, i’ve looked at my own races in slow motion and my turnover is a lot faster than most, i’m not saying it’s a limiting factor or that a faster turnover = faster running, but it certainly is the case that sprinters have different speeds of turnover

        • Participant
          COV-GOD on July 28, 2011 at 1:07 am #108827

          Irish, I have heard that previously, may have been on here where the publication was posted.

          But my experienc and again through publication, its more that the GRT is the same at most to all levels its more so the force applied within that period that makes the difference

        • Participant
          oshikake@ymail.com on July 30, 2011 at 1:41 am #109520

          But my experience and again through publication, its more that the GRT is the same at most to all levels its more so the force applied within that period that makes the difference.

          If there are slower sprinters in the 100m and 200m who are obviously stronger than Bolt?, would that mean success in the sprints will not come from more strength-bodyweight?, ie force applied.

        • Participant
          COV-GOD on July 30, 2011 at 2:18 am #109521

          Don’t misinterpret strength again!!!!

        • Participant
          jwhite@madison.k12.il.us on December 20, 2011 at 4:31 am #113437

          Old thread, but new to me. 😀

          I was thinking about the “elbows @ 90 degree” debate.

          I’m not for sure how many high school coaches are on here, especially high school coaches that have had to work with a smaller pool of athletes (i.e. less talented, less “elite”, less natural or gifted)

          I’ve literally seen kids run with their arms hanging at their sides and I’ve seen kids run with their elbows flared out like chicken wings and crossing almost completely to other side of their torso.

          So to say kids can “just naturally run” or that good sprinting form is “just there” has not been my experience.

          I try to coach the arms/elbow by “driving the elbow back” istead of keeping it strictly at 90 degrees. Obviously when you do this your elbow joint looks to be 90 degrees, though its probably not a concentrated effort to do so. I think the “elbows at 90, pocket to mouth” type cues are to help get athletes in a position to clean up form. But for me, I naturally moved away from this and to the “drive the elbow back and up” one, because I got better results (keeping the arms from crossing the body or hanging) and two because it helped with relays.

        • Member
          andrew.maclennan@gmail.com on November 22, 2013 at 12:45 am #185584

          Nice Mike, really like it, lots of great stuff close to my heart….however, I still think the arms do control the legs. Try sprinting with your arms strapped by your sides, or bent and short swing (or straight and long swing) and see what the legs do as a result…the legs do change their role depending on what the arms do…or can do…

        • Participant
          David Gain on November 28, 2013 at 12:05 pm #186975

          I agree with Mike that the arms don’t control the legs, as quoted, almost anyone of reasonable fitness can swing their arms at elite sprinter pace for about 10 seconds.

          However although not a limiting factor, nor a controlling one, they are still required to complete the sprinting action for balance purposes.

        • Participant
          rogiertetteroo@gmail.com on November 29, 2013 at 1:41 am #187100

          From what ive read (and in my own experience, how little that may be) the arms might be guiding your legs. Thinking about swinging the arms back powerfully creates a reflex to your legs by thrusting your thigh forward, and in response extending your other thigh backwards. I feel it this way, and if my arms do not work well by reacting slower than my legs, im having trouble finding my rhythm and as a result my legs dont pump in the ground as fiercefully

          Im new, so hi everyone!

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