Read the Article here, and discuss it below.
ELITETRACK Founder
Training Procedures in Sprinting
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Participant
At the end of the article he talks about running slightly downhill to break that speed barrier. What are everyone’s thoughts on that. We occasionally do some over speed training with the bungee and I wish we did it more, but I curious what the opinions are about it.
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Participant
At the end of the article he talks about running slightly downhill to break that speed barrier. What are everyone’s thoughts on that. We occasionally do some over speed training with the bungee and I wish we did it more, but I curious what the opinions are about it.
I don’t think it’s very effective for a majority of athletes. I’d prefer slightly downhill running as opposed to bungees as the athlete controls the speed. It’s also hard to control the eccentric loads involved with bungees. As is it doesn’t matter if an athlete cannot accelerate to such a speed thus it should be used with athletes who have acceleration capabilities which exceed their ability to maintain max velocity which you are not going to find in American High Schools or even at a majority of Colleges and Universities.
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Participantive also become very interested in this method…i have never done it before and also have much better acceleration abilities than top speed abilities…
Also, as im very much into the idea of suspension squat jump training, this is really another overspeed type method of training…
We also have perfect hills for it here when i train…but havent convinced Mike yet! lol
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Participant
Yes, another method of “assisted” runs or perhaps overspeed training.
I found the article interesting but like a fair percentage of articles gleaned from the former Soviet bloc there appear to be “extremes”; articles that give way more than usable amounts of information or articles, like this one, that do not contain quite enough.
I am always curious about cheap methods of training so down a slight hill appeals but more information such as the incline/decline and the length of the runs would be nice to know.Opinions on those 2 parameters?
Related to that, what I would not give for a smooth flat grass surface about 150m long and hills/berms that are not all 10m and 45 degree incline/decline.
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Participant
[quote author="johnstrang" date="1222764982"]At the end of the article he talks about running slightly downhill to break that speed barrier. What are everyone’s thoughts on that. We occasionally do some over speed training with the bungee and I wish we did it more, but I curious what the opinions are about it.
I don’t think it’s very effective for a majority of athletes. I’d prefer slightly downhill running as opposed to bungees as the athlete controls the speed. It’s also hard to control the eccentric loads involved with bungees. As is it doesn’t matter if an athlete cannot accelerate to such a speed thus it should be used with athletes who have acceleration capabilities which exceed their ability to maintain max velocity which you are not going to find in American High Schools or even at a majority of Colleges and Universities.[/quote]
I mostly like it for the mental aspect. I dont feel like there is a major improvement on my speed from doing it, but practicing all year inside on astro turf it makes me remember what i need to feel like when I get to that top end and try an maintain, but i do like bungee better than running downhill because slowing down is easier that and there is usually about 3 feet of snow and ice by february when i like to do some minimal overspeed.
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Participant
[quote author="dbandre" date="1222765526"][quote author="johnstrang" date="1222764982"]At the end of the article he talks about running slightly downhill to break that speed barrier. What are everyone’s thoughts on that. We occasionally do some over speed training with the bungee and I wish we did it more, but I curious what the opinions are about it.
I don’t think it’s very effective for a majority of athletes. I’d prefer slightly downhill running as opposed to bungees as the athlete controls the speed. It’s also hard to control the eccentric loads involved with bungees. As is it doesn’t matter if an athlete cannot accelerate to such a speed thus it should be used with athletes who have acceleration capabilities which exceed their ability to maintain max velocity which you are not going to find in American High Schools or even at a majority of Colleges and Universities.[/quote]
I mostly like it for the mental aspect. I dont feel like there is a major improvement on my speed from doing it, but practicing all year inside on astro turf it makes me remember what i need to feel like when I get to that top end and try an maintain, but i do like bungee better than running downhill because slowing down is easier that and there is usually about 3 feet of snow and ice by february when i like to do some minimal overspeed.[/quote]
What mental aspect? The feeling of running faster than you can actually propel yourself under your own volition? How is slowing down with bungees easier, to me that’s biggest problem with bungees they provide an uncontrollable acceleration to supramaximal speed followed with an uncontrollable and abrupt end to the supramaximal velocity. If want to work on excessive eccentric/elastic loading I can do it in a more controlled environment with drop landings and drop jumps. Snow will be a problem if you want to do downhill as well as cold temperatures.
I would think the most appropriate time to do overspeed with the least chance for injury and for the most benefit is in late march thru mid april, so there should be little possibility of snow in most States, but wind and cold would be a different story. At this point acceleration should have been maximized and you start getting more specific in terms of race velocity and race distances covered in practices which is usually a combination of maxV, speed endurance, and special endurance I work. For me I usually get a chance to do supramaximal speed work at least once maybe twice a year and it’s when I get a nice breezy 25-30 mph winds in Illinois in mid-April, but I still generally prefer to do all of my acceleration work and most of my race modeling into the wind if it’s present.
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Participant
The mental aspect of simply not having a enough room to get to my top speed and able to hold it for 2 seconds on my own volition. I am talking about doing this before my first decathlon in early April and Im unfortunately up at Utah State and we are stuck on the indoor football field sometimes until May. Actually I think i was even inside last year to train few days before regionals. Just an example is last year in my first deca i ran 11.24 but by the end of the year i ran 10.74. I wish I did some of the pulls before that meet. And what i mean is that the down hill doesnt level of so i have to do a big breaking motion rather than when i have the bungee i can have a smoother longer negative acceleration. I realize there is not much validity to what im saying, thats why i said its all in my mind, but the mind controls the body. Just like there is no need for a long jumper to rock back and forth a bunch of times before going.
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Participant
The mental aspect of simply not having a enough room to get to my top speed and able to hold it for 2 seconds on my own volition. I am talking about doing this before my first decathlon in early April and Im unfortunately up at Utah State and we are stuck on the indoor football field sometimes until May. Actually I think i was even inside last year to train few days before regionals. Just an example is last year in my first deca i ran 11.24 but by the end of the year i ran 10.74. I wish I did some of the pulls before that meet. And what i mean is that the down hill doesnt level of so i have to do a big breaking motion rather than when i have the bungee i can have a smoother longer negative acceleration. I realize there is not much validity to what im saying, thats why i said its all in my mind, but the mind controls the body. Just like there is no need for a long jumper to rock back and forth a bunch of times before going.
I think people who rock back and forth do it to get into a rhythm and it does provide a little boost to acceleration, but not if it’s over done.
As for the mental aspect of MaxV, I always search for that feeling of being light on the feet, like your running on air. I never ever got that feeling with bungees, I get the feeling of being pulled. I am certain you can find a place with 40-60m of downhill at 3-5%. I am even more certain you can find a windy day to do overspeed.
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Participant
I do get the feeling of being light, not pulled, and I am absolutely sure of finding a windy day here and thats why I am fine when i get to the WAC champs, but im talking about early April when im stuck inside because my school is in the mountains. When we are actually able to be outside i do run with the wind a lot to get that feeling and it doesnt take much to push my 145lbs. I am perfectly happy just being able to run the full 100 meters at practice to get the feeling i want, wind or no wind, but i just dont even get the chance until the snow melts which is anywhere from April 1st – June 1st
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Participant
I do get the feeling of being light, not pulled, and I am absolutely sure of finding a windy day here and thats why I am fine when i get to the WAC champs, but im talking about early April when im stuck inside because my school is in the mountains. When we are actually able to be outside i do run with the wind a lot to get that feeling and it doesnt take much to push my 145lbs. I am perfectly happy just being able to run the full 100 meters at practice to get the feeling i want, wind or no wind, but i just dont even get the chance until the snow melts which is anywhere from April 1st – June 1st
At 145 lbs you have to be one of lightest decathletes I’ve ever heard of. The throws have to be absolutely brutal on you (The shot put plus your weight gives you a SP/SP+BM ratio of 1/10). A collegiate decathlete who runs 10.7 FAT should have little trouble if ever competing in the sprints and jumps department of scoring in a decathlon in fact you should own most of your competitors. I’d concentrate more on a multi-routine which should over the long haul give you better mass while at the same time keeping your speed and jumps scores, but ultimately improving your throws.
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Participant
hahah yes I am, took me a year to convince the head coach to let me do the event. Throws have killed me yea, but I am on a new weightlifting plan that I am hoping will help me to solve some of that because our weight coaches didnt have me do any upper body. I have been concentrating on the right things, i just meant do the bungee pulls once or twice to get me feeling fast again. Being inside so long also sucks for working on my jav and disc technique. But i know the throws are where i lack because i was ranked 18th for the indoor hep and then 30 something for the deca.
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Participant
hahah yes I am, took me a year to convince the head coach to let me do the event. Throws have killed me yea, but I am on a new weightlifting plan that I am hoping will help me to solve some of that because our weight coaches didnt have me do any upper body. I have been concentrating on the right things, i just meant do the bungee pulls once or twice to get me feeling fast again. Being inside so long also sucks for working on my jav and disc technique. But i know the throws are where i lack because i was ranked 18th for the indoor hep and then 30 something for the deca.
You should gain mass as a result of training to a certain point where it becomes optimum to performance. That said, a little more throwing work, not just event throw work will go a long way towards improving mass in a typical multi event schedule will help gain mass without significant performance drops. Have your coaching staff buy you some jav balls for indoor or use some baseballs. Take a disc into the weight throw circle and close the gates and drop a net over the top of the opening left and do some full turn disc work there. You can always do footwork indoors or out.
Anyways we are getting a little off topic here, but the main thing I see in the article is the transition to work on acceleration in his routine.
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Participant
i already do all that.
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