[Mike Young]

Mike Young on September 30, 2006 at 9:49 am #12213

Athletes: A group of short and long sprinters.

Scenario: It's getting cold outside (35-45 degrees at any given day during the week) and your group of sprinters has been forced to move their training inside. They have successfully completed the GPP of a short-to-long GPP periodization having fully developed acceleration abilities and have almost completely developed max velocity. Unfortunately your facilities are less than ideal. You've got access to a 200m indoor track 1 day of the week otherwise you are either forced to run outside in the cold or workout in your school hallways which consists of 4 connected 50m long hallways (think of a square 200m). You have weight room access at the school and medballs, hurdles, throwing implements, stationary bikes, and a pool. The athletes are competing during the indoor season and need to be ready.

Things to consider:
*Do you train speed endurance at all? If so, how do you do it? Give a sample workout.
*What workouts would you do on the days you have access to the track?
*Given the current constraints what would your weekly training plan look like?

ELITETRACK Founder

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 30, 2006 at 11:21 am #57359

You train on the track and get in one quality accel —-> speed endurance workout or accel—->max velocity workout per week. On top of that or another option is to warmup one of those days in the hallways put on your tights and go outside and run a special endurance rep. go back inside for the rest period and go back outside for the second rep. For example warmup inside go outside and run an all out 300 go back inside for 30 mins. go back outside run another 300. It would be difficult to get in a good max v. workout outdoors since you would need to be outside for an extended amount of time. For example 4×30 5×60. It would be a big pain in the ass to be going inside every few mins. plus the speed that those types of reps. would be done at may put the athleted at risk.
That takes care of 2 workouts. The other workout could be a combo of plyos, hurdle hop and lifting in addition to the 2 other days of lifting being done on the high intensity days.
Tempo could be done outside on the days in between or they may have acess to the pool. If not then the rower or treadmill be be a good option with general strength circuits and or sled dragging.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 30, 2006 at 11:31 am #57360

well if we are talking about guys who are only running the 60m indoors its easy:

the one track day we have we would work on acc and top speed, something like blocks 30's and 60's. the other track day could be perform in the hall way – with med ball acc work and starts out to about 30-40m

one tempo day would be a pool session and other day would be general strength, hurdles, med ball work.

guys who will run 60 and 200:

the two tempo days will stay as is, we may add one bb circuit day.

one track day would be acc and top speed and other outdoor day will be starts and special work – like quik said. warmup indoors and do start work indoors then head outdoors and do one rep then rush back indoors 4×250.

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on September 30, 2006 at 12:39 pm #57361

Ut,
the problem that may arise is the hallway though. Doing speedwork in trainers would be less than ideal perhaps counterproductive. One solution would be doing it in racing flats such as Zoom waffles. But we than need to think about shin splits and other lower leg problems. Thoughts.>

[mortac8]

mortac8 on September 30, 2006 at 5:57 pm #57362

How bout you got no access to an indoor track (none within 1hr drive), 40m hallways, and the football team reserves the weight room from 4-7pm (your practice time) and your coach works a normal job until 4pm.   :regan:

Mon
===
-We put our 100' rollout runway in the hallway and will do about 15m starts in spikes (without the spikes in) then lay doormats all the way to the wall (so we're not scratching the floor with our spikes) which has a high jump mat placed vertically for the kids to run in to.  Doing accel work in our hallways is questionable because the footing is not very good.  Kids will often hold back on their power to prevent slipping.  Something I def. don't want!
– Do complexes in the weight room when it becomes available.

Tue
===
– Tempo on grass or on the incline treadmill.  Abs and maybe some general strength

Wed
===
– Pool workout

Thur
====
– same as Mon or just suck it up and do some sprints (submax) outdoors in the 30degree weather.  I've found that as long as it's above about 20, you can run outside with some comfort if well dressed. 
– Weights if possible

Fri
==
– long warmup

Sat
===
– meet

In general, we just really nail the weights whenever we can.  Also do a bunch of stair hopping for the jumpers especially usually as a warmup.  I save the special end for outdoor season for a 60/100/200 guy.  Any special end we do in the winter would be the split 60s.

Oh yea, you also get really mad and frustrated lol.  Also you deal with the facilities crew labor unions threats to sue if you shovel the snow off the track yourself because it takes them a week to get around it.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 30, 2006 at 10:29 pm #57363

if u have a guy that runs 60 and 200m u need more then spilt 60's. that mon workout look like it could be dangerous with the crash mats etc. i bet its very diffcult to do speed work in 25 degree weather. just curious why the 2 tempo days back to back

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 30, 2006 at 10:30 pm #57364

Ut,
the problem that may arise is the hallway though. Doing speedwork in trainers would be less than ideal perhaps counterproductive. One solution would be doing it in racing flats such as Zoom waffles. But we than need to think about shin splits and other lower leg problems. Thoughts.>

the acc work done in the hallway would be med ball acc work and low vol starts 6×30 etc nothing fancy.

[mortac8]

mortac8 on September 30, 2006 at 10:53 pm #57365

if u have a guy that runs 60 and 200m u need more then spilt 60's. that mon workout look like it could be dangerous with the crash mats etc. i bet its very diffcult to do speed work in 25 degree weather. just curious why the 2 tempo days back to back

It's not really a crash mat.  They still have about 20m to decelerate from their 15-20m run before they hit the mat.  No worse than indoor meets where the athletes run into a wall/barrier (or a closed door…happened to us) after a full speed run.

I don't think we need anything above split 60s because I don't care bout the 200 indoors because most of the events are on a flat 170m-200m track.  We don't do anything over 80m for a 55/200 guy.  Try putting a 21sec guy in lane 3 of a 170m flat track….

Why 2 tempo days back 2 back?  Why u take two days off in a row on the weekend :angel:?  Na but this schedule assumes a meet on Sat and Sun off.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 30, 2006 at 10:56 pm #57366

[quote author="utfootball4" date="1159635598"]
if u have a guy that runs 60 and 200m u need more then spilt 60's. that mon workout look like it could be dangerous with the crash mats etc. i bet its very diffcult to do speed work in 25 degree weather. just curious why the 2 tempo days back to back

It's not really a crash mat.  They still have about 20m to decelerate from their 15-20m run before they hit the mat.  No worse than indoor meets where the athletes run into a wall/barrier (or a closed door…happened to us) after a full speed run.

I don't think we need anything above split 60s because I don't care bout the 200 indoors because most of the events are on a flat 170m-200m track.  We don't do anything over 80m for a 55/200 guy.  Try putting a 21sec guy in lane 3 of a 170m flat track….

Why 2 tempo days back 2 back?  Why u take two days off in a row on the weekend :angel:?  Na but this schedule assumes a meet on Sat and Sun off.
[/quote]

u cant compare meets to training sessions.

u r thinking sounds fine for ur goals.

r u asking me why i take 2 days off in a row? why dont u do speed mon-wed, tempo tue: treadmill/ thur pool, rest or meet prep on fri.

just curious where do ur team rank in ur conference/nationals?

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 30, 2006 at 11:12 pm #57367

also what kind of times are ur guys running in the 200 with that program? what kind of running do ur 400 guys doing?

[mortac8]

mortac8 on September 30, 2006 at 11:18 pm #57368

The speed mon-wed, tempo tue, thurs pool, fri prep sounds good.  I guess that is another viable option. 

For indoor we're about the middle of the road in our conference.  However we had 0 points for throwers and mid-distance/distance (though we did place in the distance relays).  A good improvement from the way it used to be.  Nationally, don't know.  Not too great.  The past 2 years we have just provisionally qualified in the 55, 100,200 (men), lj/hj (women).  We're trying to get there.

[mortac8]

mortac8 on September 30, 2006 at 11:22 pm #57369

also what kind of times are ur guys running in the 200 with that program? what kind of running do ur 400 guys doing?

Indoor we ran 22.80 and low 23 on small flat track.  Only two guys ran it.  Outdoor we have run 21.77 and high 22.  Our training program is not really geared toward the 200.  Anyway, we never get any recruits sub 23 outdoor so it's always a long road.
For the 400 once we get into it, we'll do something like fast special endurance (1×350) on Mon, temp, tempo, fast speed edurance (1x2x200m or 2x2x200m) on Thur.  Our 400m coach quit last year but he had great success with a ton of intensive tempo.  More success than me with the 400m people.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on September 30, 2006 at 11:28 pm #57370

[quote author="utfootball4" date="1159638202"]
also what kind of times are ur guys running in the 200 with that program? what kind of running do ur 400 guys doing?

Indoor we ran 22.80 and low 23 on small flat track.  Only two guys ran it.  Outdoor we have run 21.77 and high 22.  Our training program is not really geared toward the 200.  Anyway, we never get any recruits sub 23 outdoor so it's always a long road.
For the 400 once we get into it, we'll do something like fast special endurance (1×350) on Mon, temp, tempo, fast speed edurance (1x2x200m or 2x2x200m) on Thur.  Our 400m coach quit last year but he had great success with a ton of intensive tempo.  More success than me with the 400m people.
[/quote]

sounds very similar to how cf train ben, indoors geared towards the 60m then outdoor 100 with couple 200 races

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 1, 2006 at 12:25 am #57371

I think I'd definitely use the track day with alternating workouts from week to week. Week 1 we'd probably address an acc dev / maxV/ short speed endance workout (something like 8 x 60m w/ 8' rest) for the short sprinters and maxV / speed endurance for the long sprinters. On the second week, I'd probably do speed endurance for the short sprinters (~125s maybe) and special endurance for the long sprinters (300m repeats). In both cases I'd really drill them hard, much harder than normal, and then let them an easy day and a medium day before doing anything high CNS again.

I do think special endurance could be addressed in the hallways but it would be less than ideal and I've found too much fast running on overly hard surfaces is a recipe for disaster. Acceleration development and maybe even maxV could be developed in the hallways if you had a rollout runway. To address maxV in the hallways you'd need to get a 10-15m run-in before the turn / corner so that you'd be at about 35% top-end speed by the time you reached the main sprint hallway….this could get tricky though with rollout runways going around a corner.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on October 28, 2009 at 1:00 am #90742

Haha, there may not be another member on this board who can relate to this more than I can. The school I’m at has three connected hallways, the longest being 40m, and the other two roughly 30m in length. With that said, here are some things I do, would do, and am considering trying:

Mon. – accel work on rollout track
QUESTION: I’ve actually done this for years on the regular hallways surface, with just using their trainers. I rarely get many shin injuries on my team (aside from the nagging little pains that all girls seem to get, no matter what you do or don’t do with them). Injuries aside, can speed be developed AT ALL by doing this? If not, what kind of training are they getting from it?

Tues. – tempo work/GS work, etc

Wed. – Speed Endurance work (80-150m)
I can get the gym once, maybe twice/week to run on the basketball court. Can this be done effectively using trainers?

Thurs. – see Tuesday

Fri. – Special Endurance work (150-400m)
See Wednesday for comments. Same question applies.

This is what I normally do. How effective can this be? Thoughts?

Also, here is something I am considering for this upcoming season. The situation at my high school is very similar to what Mike suggested in his mock scenario. There is a 300m indoor track about an hour away that is available twice/week to run on. This is what I am considering:

Mon. – change the start day of our training week. This is our “Sunday”, so day off

Tues. – drive to indoor track for workout (accel work for short sprinters, SE work for long sprinters (150-300m))

Wed. – Extensive Tempo/circuits/technical work in the school hallways or in the gym

Thurs. – drive to indoor track for workout (speed endurance work (80-150m))

Fri. – see Tuesday

Sat. – since this is usually a meet day, either use the meet as a training day, or if the athlete is not competing, have them come to the meet to do a workout on the track either before the meet begins or after the meet is over.

Sun. – This is our “Saturday”, so day off.

Thoughts?