My training partner has very incosistent squatting poundages, and overall his squatting strength pretty much sucks (especially for his bodyweight) despite him, training it pretty regularly . His build is certainly not conducive in squatting big poundages (1.9m long femurs, long legs, shoter torso 93kg bw). Since he has so much trouble back squatting, what would you suggest as a tool for developing max lower body strength for this particular athlete?
Could he get away with not squatting at all?
Trouble back squatting
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Member
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Member
Actually his whole strength gains (in pretty much every exercise, its just that his squat is very weak , could be bigger relative to his bench for example) come very very slowly, i feel his recovery abilities are sub-par or sth. Biking and playing football in his spare time, doesn't seem to help, either 😛
Any idea , how he could fix that? His diet is pretty good though.
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Participant
you could add some heavy trap bar dl, or have him squat a lil above parellal with diff bars and add some extra single leg work like high box stepups and extra hammy work.
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Participant
i see… for example he is pretty good at deadlifts/cleans, even though his squat strength is low? what does that indicate?
indicates that his squat strength is weak. how much do he sq?
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Participant
130kg..
i hate the long leg excuse, i would do some intensive lower body training. is he a sprinter, and can u list what he has been during for his lower body?
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Member
well, he is not a sprinter, he is just an aspiring/amateur sprinter and he definately wants to increase his lower body strg… what do you mean intensive leg training? sth like smolov? that would wreck his body for good..
he just squats once a week and clean once a week too (varying the intensity at squats 80-90% and occasionally testing his 1rm) -
Participant
well, he is not a sprinter, he is just an aspiring/amateur sprinter and he definately wants to increase his lower body strg… what do you mean intensive leg training? sth like smolov? that would wreck his body for good..
he just squats once a week and clean once a week too (varying the intensity at squats 80-90% and occasionally testing his 1rm)you really need to hit legs more then just once a week. i would probably do something like this for 6-8 weeks then switch it up.
mon:
power clean
clean pulls
back squats 5×1-6reps (add weight each week to the bar)
glut hams
rev hypersfri:
power snatch
snatch pulls
back squats 3-4×3-5 lighter weight then on mon
stepups
glut hams
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Participant
My training partner has very incosistent squatting poundages, and overall his squatting strength pretty much sucks (especially for his bodyweight) despite him, training it pretty regularly . His build is certainly not conducive in squatting big poundages (1.9m long femurs, long legs, shoter torso 93kg bw). Since he has so much trouble back squatting, what would you suggest as a tool for developing max lower body strength for this particular athlete?
Could he get away with not squatting at all?Anthony,
Does he use a narrow stance? I had trouble with the back squat when I was young and thin. At 6'4", I just couldn't get my form looking worth a hoot, especially with any weight on the bar. Then, I started squatting with a wide stance. And I mean a wide stance. I put my toes against the side rails of the squat rack. This has the added benefit of hitting the glutes and hams harder, and reducing stress on the low back.
As someone recommended above, start with partial squats, stopping a few inches above parallel, with a really wide stance. Use reps of 3-5, and just keep working at it.
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Member
I don't think you should have him practice squatting high. Someone who only squats high will have different form than someone who can squat properly and then stops high once. It is very difficult for someone to learn to go lower after a while.
I trained a couple of 6'6" and 6'7" guys. A lot of tall untrained guys will have a relatively good deadlift (compared to other lifts). However, even the deadlift might look unstable at the top. They need to build core strength and stability.
I suggest finding the right stance (most likely fairly wide). Then chose a weight that allows proper depth. Don't let the knees drift too far forward. Do box squats on a second day each week (to 1" below parallel) it will greatly accel the learning. The squat can be learned by these guys, it just takes more practice.
The other thing is work abs intensely 3-4 times per week. Do at least 2 types of chins per week. Maybe deadlift lockouts from below the knees. Use weighted dips. Things like chins, dips, and abs will connect everything. Once he is stable and squatting well it will take off. The guys I trained more than doubled their squats in 10 weeks, and didn't look bad doing it by that time. Once they solidify the frame all the lifts will go up.
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Participant
I don't think you should have him practice squatting high. Someone who only squats high will have different form than someone who can squat properly and then stops high once. It is very difficult for someone to learn to go lower after a while.
I trained a couple of 6'6" and 6'7" guys. A lot of tall untrained guys will have a relatively good deadlift (compared to other lifts). However, even the deadlift might look unstable at the top. They need to build core strength and stability.
I suggest finding the right stance (most likely fairly wide). Then chose a weight that allows proper depth. Don't let the knees drift too far forward. Do box squats on a second day each week (to 1" below parallel) it will greatly accel the learning. The squat can be learned by these guys, it just takes more practice.
The other thing is work abs intensely 3-4 times per week. Do at least 2 types of chins per week. Maybe deadlift lockouts from below the knees. Use weighted dips. Things like chins, dips, and abs will connect everything. Once he is stable and squatting well it will take off. The guys I trained more than doubled their squats in 10 weeks, and didn't look bad doing it by that time. Once they solidify the frame all the lifts will go up.
joe deFranco's also train tall athletes, he states they are not powerlifters, weightlifters etc but athletes and can still get great benefits by doing higher box squats and adding more posterior chain and single leg work. who says you have to squat parallel? i train 3 seven footers and they only perform high box squats but also perform extra hammy and single leg work to balance out everything, they also can power clean from the floor 245 not bad for a 250+ 7 footer.
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Member
Yeah, the guy this is about is only 6'3" though. I saw some tall guys being shown to only bench 6-8 inch (no where near the chest), squat really high etc. while I was able to get better results with standard tech. I think that in most cases (especially only 6'3") they can still do the normal form.
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Participant
Yeah, the guy this is about is only 6'3" though. I saw some tall guys being shown to only bench 6-8 inch (no where near the chest), squat really high etc. while I was able to get better results with standard tech. I think that in most cases (especially only 6'3") they can still do the normal form.
Almost all serious powerlifters incorporate both high squats and partial benches into their strength training. Even the Westside boys, who do almost nothing but box squats, have boxes that range from 2-3 inches below parallel to 3-4 inches above parallel. Form doesn't change if worked properly, just the range of motion. Once you become comfortable with a squat that's 3 inches high, it's nothing to drop down an inch, and then another, and then finally to parallel, all the while gaining strength, experience and confidence. And I can't emphasize enough the importance of a wide stance, especially for taller athletes.
And, many, if not most, powerlifters do board presses, with boards up to 8 inches thick sitting on their chest. Heavy board presses (up to 125% of PR) are the single best exercise I've found to enhance my full benchpress.
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Member
star61,
You are right that a lot of guys use partials at various times. I think this is usually to learn how to exploit equipment (another topic). Do you wear a bench shirt? Do board presses improve your raw bench? I'm sure they don't change the position of your sticking point.You are also right that an experienced lifter can vary their squat depth easily.
What I have found is that a beginner who ONLY learns high squats has a hard time going deeper. It has to be entirely relearned. I find that they aren't in the right position to just go a bit deeper, they haven't broken at the hips, and when they try to go deeper, the knees come forward a bit more and then they are stuck. If you go part way down in the form that is usual for full squatting then it is easy to simply go a bit further. -
Participant
star61,
You are right that a lot of guys use partials at various times. I think this is usually to learn how to exploit equipment (another topic). Do you wear a bench shirt? Do board presses improve your raw bench? I'm sure they don't change the position of your sticking point.Actually you can vary the height of the boards to work specifically on your sticking point. Many stick low on the chest, so a one inch board works. I usually have trouble in the mid range, so I normally use about 4 inches worth of boards. The idea is not to exploit the equipment, but to initiate the body to weights heavier than can be pressed full range. I only bench raw, and my PR is with a pause at the bottom. I have never worn a bench shirt.
You are also right that an experienced lifter can vary their squat depth easily.
What I have found is that a beginner who ONLY learns high squats has a hard time going deeper. It has to be entirely relearned. I find that they aren't in the right position to just go a bit deeper, they haven't broken at the hips, and when they try to go deeper, the knees come forward a bit more and then they are stuck. If you go part way down in the form that is usual for full squatting then it is easy to simply go a bit further.There is no need to do high squats only. Squats of all depths should be performed at all times. However, squatting heavier weights just above parallel will still build strength and confidence. Form can be maintained with lighter squats at or below parallel.
My strongest squatter, my nephew, full squats in the 650 range at 205lbs. bodyweight. He routinely includes chains, bands, and or high box squats with heavier than PR weight in his routine. He also works low box squats to hit the bottom. Bands are great for this, and would probably help the author of this thread, but I don't think a beginner should use bands or chains without plenty of instruction and a good spotter or two.
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