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    You are at:Home»Forums»General Discussions»Blog Discussion»Vertical vs. Horizontal Force in Sprinting

    Vertical vs. Horizontal Force in Sprinting

    Posted In: Blog Discussion

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 22, 2012 at 7:49 am #18169

          Here’s a response I wrote for an interview I did over at SpeedEndurance.com as part of their “Friday Five” Series. To read the entire interview please click here and be sure to share and like on facebook and twitter.Q: “Max speed” is often the hot topic with many blogs, especially those in strength and condoning. With huge debate on horizontal and vertical forces as well as specific muscle

          Continue reading…

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Carl Valle on July 23, 2012 at 6:02 am #117319

          Mike,

          What would be a good set-up to get top speed GRF for all three directions? Do you think the force profiles are wrong that Mann is referring to? I am not a fan of treadmills but what do you suspect is wrong with the horizontal, lateral, vertical scores that should be re-evaluated.

          CV

        • Participant
          star61 on July 24, 2012 at 2:37 am #117344

          Mike,

          Nice post and I appreciate the “open mind” approach. I agree that all the data isn’t in, and any absolute viewpoints are based more on personal bias rather than the data, which we don’t have yet. I would make two points. First, even with pressure plate data, you really need data not only from a broad spectrum of athletes running at various max speeds, but also a vertical spread, acquiring data on every individual at multiple points along their acceleration curve. I believe we need to know more than simply the absolute forces at top speed; we need to see how they evolve through a race to better determine what the rate limiting factor might be. Secondly, in partial defense of tread mills, I think while absolute values are off due to the differences in surfaces and mechanics, the overall trend in force changes during acceleration is probably valid. I think the primary reason many reject treadmill data is not that that they believe mechanics are so different that the evolution of the acceleration curve is totally different from over ground running, its that the trends in the data don’t support some of Mann’s ideas. But we will all have to wait until we have data from many athletes of all abilities across their entire acceleration curve to truly begin to understand what’s happening and what the limit factors of Max V truly are.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 26, 2012 at 4:46 pm #117391

          Mike,

          What would be a good set-up to get top speed GRF for all three directions? Do you think the force profiles are wrong that Mann is referring to? I am not a fan of treadmills but what do you suspect is wrong with the horizontal, lateral, vertical scores that should be re-evaluated.

          CV

          I’m not aware of any force plate studies from Mann.

          We can’t comment on the existing treadmill force data by itself since there isn’t a gold standard to compare to (overground with athletes at various speeds of various abilities) but the force data I am aware of has come associated with kinematic data that we know is in err or at least significantly different than known overground performances on a track. This alone brings the kinetic data in to question.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 26, 2012 at 4:47 pm #117392

          Mike,

          Nice post and I appreciate the “open mind” approach. I agree that all the data isn’t in, and any absolute viewpoints are based more on personal bias rather than the data, which we don’t have yet. I would make two points. First, even with pressure plate data, you really need data not only from a broad spectrum of athletes running at various max speeds, but also a vertical spread, acquiring data on every individual at multiple points along their acceleration curve. I believe we need to know more than simply the absolute forces at top speed; we need to see how they evolve through a race to better determine what the rate limiting factor might be. Secondly, in partial defense of tread mills, I think while absolute values are off due to the differences in surfaces and mechanics, the overall trend in force changes during acceleration is probably valid. I think the primary reason many reject treadmill data is not that that they believe mechanics are so different that the evolution of the acceleration curve is totally different from over ground running, its that the trends in the data don’t support some of Mann’s ideas. But we will all have to wait until we have data from many athletes of all abilities across their entire acceleration curve to truly begin to understand what’s happening and what the limit factors of Max V truly are.

          Totally agreed. This is exactly what I was alluding to but we were given guidelines for answer length and couldn’t get in to the details like you have.

          ELITETRACK Founder

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