[swifta]

swifta on April 26, 2010 at 1:38 pm #16690

I have a planning question. The last couple of weeks I have been in discussion with several different people about training 100-400 meter runners. In a short to long program, how would you determine a starting point for volume of speed and tempo work? I’ve heard in some long to short programs coaches use their race distance x 6-10 to come up with a starting point.

Understanding that the intensity for speed is high (95-100%), the volume is very low but, how low do we start. What is a appropriate %  increase in volume each week? 

[johanG]

johanG on December 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm #104398

I would say that the total volyme of speed traing (97-100% with spikes)) should be 100-300m per week. Each sprint should be max 6 sekonds, if you are running longer time than 6 seconds you are not traning your max speed.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 30, 2010 at 2:31 pm #104400

I frequently do up to 800m of total speed volume in a week (split over 3 days). Generally for acceleration development I try not to do 240m in a single session. For longer speed work (50-90m) I find it’s hard to make exact volume rules across various workout types (float-sprint-float vs flying sprints vs short speed endurance vs sprint-float-sprint) but I try to put it in to the context of what we’re doing for the entire week and err on the conservative side.

ELITETRACK Founder

[star61]

star61 on December 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm #104401

I would say that the total volyme of speed traing (97-100% with spikes)) should be 100-300m per week. Each sprint should be max 6 sekonds, if you are running longer time than 6 seconds you are not traning your max speed.

100m sounds pretty short for even a single session, let alone a week. I think even 300-500m of Max V work in a single session is not outrageous, and if you’re training Max V 2-3 times a week, you’re quickly going to be nearing 1000m, depending on the training phase you’re in. I would think for a weekly volume, assuming this in not a competition phase, 600m to 1000m per week might be closer.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 30, 2010 at 2:43 pm #104402

Agree with Star61. Most people find my sprint volumes to be on the low side. If we’re including real speed or special endurance or race modeling it would be really easy to exceed 1200m of speed volume and be just fine. For example, right now we’re doing about 240m of acceleration work on Monday, 300m of short speed endurance on Wednesday, 270m of acceleration work on Friday, and 600m of speed endurance work on Saturday. This is for my jumpers and hurdlers. There’s slight variations from person-to-person based on what I see but this adds up to around 1400m above 95%.

ELITETRACK Founder

[johanG]

johanG on December 31, 2010 at 12:28 am #104404

I think that If you include acceleration and speed endurance the meters could look like this. It is very individual hos much max speed work you can handle

Max speed
100-300 meters 97-100% in flying 20 or 30 with 5-6 min rest veteran each

Acceleration
100-300 meters

Speed endurance
400-600 meters

[Linas82]

Linas82 on December 31, 2010 at 6:44 am #104406

Agree with Star61. Most people find my sprint volumes to be on the low side. If we’re including real speed or special endurance or race modeling it would be really easy to exceed 1200m of speed volume and be just fine. For example, right now we’re doing about 240m of acceleration work on Monday, 300m of short speed endurance on Wednesday, 270m of acceleration work on Friday, and 600m of speed endurance work on Saturday. This is for my jumpers and hurdlers. There’s slight variations from person-to-person based on what I see but this adds up to around 1400m above 95%.

Density of fast running is pretty high looking at weekly training cycle. Do you find such a density of sprinting works best for your all jumpers/hurdlers? How fast do your athletes run during Saturday workout? Are there cases when athletes don’t look “great” as you expect during some of these sprinting sessions? If it happens, do you usually end up such a session for a particular athlete, give something of lower intensity or simply reduce volume of fast sprinting?

[Rich Tolman(mr-glove)]

Rich Tolman(mr-glove) on December 31, 2010 at 8:44 am #104410

We seem to be in the midst of performance coaches prescribing pretty low volumes of sprint work. Some will have athletes sprint 4-6 x 10 yards and move on to the next unit.

Any thoughts on the minimum volume required to advance an athlete’s speed capabilities?

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on December 31, 2010 at 8:58 am #104411

I spoke with Nelio Moura about speed volumes a while back and he told me that his group does a lot less over speed volume than most groups. (I know a lot less than Mikes program usually is).

The best set up for me seems to be only 2 hard speed days + 1 longer sub max speed end type day. 3 hard days + tempo speed end seems too much.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on December 31, 2010 at 10:40 am #104412

Agree with Star61. Most people find my sprint volumes to be on the low side. If we’re including real speed or special endurance or race modeling it would be really easy to exceed 1200m of speed volume and be just fine. For example, right now we’re doing about 240m of acceleration work on Monday, 300m of short speed endurance on Wednesday, 270m of acceleration work on Friday, and 600m of speed endurance work on Saturday. This is for my jumpers and hurdlers. There’s slight variations from person-to-person based on what I see but this adds up to around 1400m above 95%.

Mike,

Using your setup above, could you use this type of training during a meet week during indoor? If so, could you even sub out the 270m of acceleration work on Friday with, say, sprint-float-sprint of 30/30/30, then come back for a meet on Saturday?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 31, 2010 at 2:39 pm #104415

I spoke with Nelio Moura about speed volumes a while back and he told me that his group does a lot less over speed volume than most groups. (I know a lot less than Mikes program usually is).

I don’t do overspeed….not sure what you meant by that.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 31, 2010 at 2:41 pm #104416

Mike,

Using your setup above, could you use this type of training during a meet week during indoor? If so, could you even sub out the 270m of acceleration work on Friday with, say, sprint-float-sprint of 30/30/30, then come back for a meet on Saturday?

If there was a meet, it would be drastically different. Monday would be about the same, Wednesday would depend on what the athlete was running in the meet (but could be similar to what I listed), Friday would only have about 100-150m of sprinting in it. I’ve been using 6 x 20m or 3 x 15m, 2 x 25m, 1 x 35m as typical pre-meet day routines.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 31, 2010 at 2:43 pm #104417

We seem to be in the midst of performance coaches prescribing pretty low volumes of sprint work. Some will have athletes sprint 4-6 x 10 yards and move on to the next unit.

Any thoughts on the minimum volume required to advance an athlete’s speed capabilities?

40-60 yards of total volume is well below what I’d consider an optimal stimulus for a trained athlete looking to enhance speed or even acceleration.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on January 1, 2011 at 4:09 am #104429

[quote author="Nick Newman" date="1293766124"]I spoke with Nelio Moura about speed volumes a while back and he told me that his group does a lot less over speed volume than most groups. (I know a lot less than Mikes program usually is).

I don’t do overspeed….not sure what you meant by that.[/quote]Mike,

Although you do not do overspeed training, gimme an example of an overspeed session.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on January 1, 2011 at 4:16 am #104430

[quote author="Jay Turner" date="1293772226"]Mike,

Using your setup above, could you use this type of training during a meet week during indoor? If so, could you even sub out the 270m of acceleration work on Friday with, say, sprint-float-sprint of 30/30/30, then come back for a meet on Saturday?

If there was a meet, it would be drastically different. Monday would be about the same, Wednesday would depend on what the athlete was running in the meet (but could be similar to what I listed), Friday would only have about 100-150m of sprinting in it. I’ve been using 6 x 20m or 3 x 15m, 2 x 25m, 1 x 35m as typical pre-meet day routines.[/quote]So judging by your reply, during the indoor season, if your Friday sessions are SFS, is it better to just sub it out for an accel. session for a pre meet? Or, what about something I have been doing and would like your opinion on…….Instead of doing a any kind of pre meet indoors, I’ve changed my training week to go Tuesday through Saturday, so it looks like this…

Tuesday – accel. work
Thursday – SSE
Saturday – meet day (if applicable)

So again, my question is, is the above example beneficial, or is it more beneficial to go Monday (accel. work)/Wednesday (SSE)/Friday (accel. work)/Saturday (meet day)?

[Nick Newman]

Nick Newman on January 1, 2011 at 7:47 am #104432

[quote author="Nick Newman" date="1293766124"]I spoke with Nelio Moura about speed volumes a while back and he told me that his group does a lot less over speed volume than most groups. (I know a lot less than Mikes program usually is).

I don’t do overspeed….not sure what you meant by that.[/quote]

Sorry typo, i meant OVERALL speed volume, not over speed volume.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 23, 2011 at 2:19 pm #107525

For the outdoor season my pre meet sessions are usually 250m-300m of accel work. For the indoor season, could I do something different for a pre meet, like a sprint float sprint session, or is that too much on a runner the day before a meet?

[tkaberna]

tkaberna on April 23, 2011 at 3:07 pm #107526

If you want to go the day before then acceleration is your best bet even though that volume seems high for premeet but that is just me.

I wouldnt want to tap the CNS with SFS the day before as well as fatiguing the hamstrings that much. I have though done SFS two days out then had a low day the day before a meet. I have found almost better results with having the high day for my HS kids two days out instead of one but I do use both setups depending on the week.