[wise-one]

wise-one on December 15, 2006 at 5:59 am #12535

I have a list of Weight Lifting Exercises that I know are useful for 200m & 400m runners… I'll just put these exercises here so you can pick which ones would be most helpful. If you have any new exercises that may not be mentioned here then feel free to to add them to the list. I have been doing my own research and find that these ones are the most beneficial.

Chest

1. Bench Press (flat, incline, & (decline once every two weeks) (barbell or dumbbell)
2. Military press
3. Dips

Traps

1. Upright Row
2. Shoulder Shrug (front and back) (barbell or dumbbell)

Shoulders, Triceps, & Biceps

I am not as concerned with too much upper body lifting, but here are a few suggestions.
Bench Press works the Shoulders and Triceps also.
1. Deltoid lifts (straight and lateral)
2. Tricep Extensions
3. Shoulder Press (I was told this is more specific for body builders)
4. Dumbbell Push Press
5. Dumbbell Arm swings
6. Chin Ups
         
Lat's

1. Lat Pull Downs
2. T-bar Rows

I don't really work my lats because I want a forward drive with my arms.
         
Middle Back

1. Barbell Row (Lying Flat) or Dumbbell Row
2. Incline Bench Pull             

Lower Back

1. Straight Leg Dead Lift
2. Good Mornings
3. Hyper Extensions ( Core exercise )
4. Pull Ups
5. Reverse Hypers
           
Abdominus & Obliques

1. Crunches ( legs raised on swiss ball )
2. Decline Sit Ups & Incline Sit Ups
3. Bicycle
4. Leg Raises ( hanging bar or hanging chair)
5. Side Hyper Extensions
6. Wood Chop exercises

Have any suggestions? I just do a variety of good core work for abs.

Quadriceps, Hamstrings, & Glutes

2. Squat (Half, Back Sqaut, Jump, & Single Leg Squat) heck any Squats!!!! & box squat…lol
4. Ab/Ad machine Thigh Abductor
5. Lunges(barbell or dumbbell) (standing or walking)
6. Step Ups (barbell or dumbbell)
7. Glute Ham Raise
8. Dead Lift (variations… Standard, Romanian, Snatch Grip, & Straight Leg)

Here are a few exercises that might be helpful but I don't do them: Jump Squats, Partial squats, Reverse hypers, Lat Pull downs, & medicine balls (over head throws).
   
            Olympic Lifts

(I believe these two are most beneficial but I am not too big on doing OL's)

1. Clean
2. Snatch
3. Jerk

You can also add a few more lifting exercises of a more general nature if you think they are good.

Areas that I feel are highly unneccessary to work:  Neck & Forearms

I think if I did all body work that may be fine…but I try to do specific exercises with general lifting exercises seeing how sprinters need specific exercises also.

Other exercises… not recommended until further research can be done… 
            one reason is that most of them are not free weights

Pec machine,   Flys,   Weighted Chins,   Neck Press,   Chest press,   Leg Curls,   Leg Press, & Leg Extensions. 

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on December 15, 2006 at 7:39 am #60875

dude do u have a fetish for diff exercises i swear this is like ur tenth post just on exercises?

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 15, 2006 at 8:25 am #60876

I actually posted this a while back for long & mid. distance sprinters to help them develop a routine with some exercises. I haven't changed it in format because it's what I do on a constant basis. I'll keep this up for a couple days to see if I can get any critics advice. After that I will take this topic down and continue with my normal routine if no one has a any objections to my exercises I use or don't use.

P.S. The original topic is in the "sprinters" forum which will remain there.

[Carson Boddicker]

Carson Boddicker on December 15, 2006 at 11:04 am #60877

Just curious as to why you are compartmentalizing the body by bodypart as opposed to movement performed? 

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on December 15, 2006 at 11:10 am #60878

Just curious as to why you are compartmentalizing the body by bodypart as opposed to movement performed? 

u didnt catch his earlier post- hes a bodybuilder/sprinter

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on December 15, 2006 at 12:17 pm #60879

All I know is if I spent time teaching these lifts, my kids would be excellent weightlifters/bodybuilders, but likely so-so runners/sprinters.  Runners/Sprinters should primarily do large multi-joint closed kinetic chain lifting.  Then supplement that with General Strength and Specific Strength exercises.

Therefore I conclude with this, you are passionate about strength and that is good; however you are misguided on what is needed in a proper lifting program.  Your lack of OL's or reluctance in using them is misplaced as well. Once you learn more and put it all together you will be a fine coach. 

How is that for a critique?

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 15, 2006 at 11:29 pm #60880

I am still in high school running track… and I do realize that lifts that trigger the highest percentage of "Moter Units" are the best ones to use.
I have mentioned only the top choices of strength exercises that track athletes use. Besides arm and middle back exercises. I really only work my calves during pre-season but I could drop them seeing how they aren't critical.

The only area is my "Arm" work which I would only consider what you are saying as body buillding exercises… and maybe my middle back exercise with the Barbell Row.

I could definitely benefit from using  over head medicine ball throws and OL's.

Really the only area which I have doubts upon are my ab work… I'd rather get an educated opinion to some specific ab workouts that experienced coaches here have used with excellent benefits.

The reason I am doubtful of the exercises that I used was because my previous year doing the 200m and 400m I felt like the lifts that I was doing were making me too bulky, so I droppped doing lifts completely. I feel as of now I am trying to pick out a more specific group of exercises as mentioned in the "sprinting" forum.

The only arm work that I think I should drop is the Curls

and possibly the Shoulder Press… I realize that sprinting athletes need strong shoulders with their drive… would you recommend the DB Push Press over the Shoulder Press? right now all I am doing for shoulder work is
Lateral Deltoid Raises with dumbbells..  do you think I could benefit from doing Front Deltoid Lifts?

The reason I doubt using the shoulder press is because some one told me they are more specific for bodybuilders.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on December 16, 2006 at 1:34 am #60881

Here is what I prefer my athletes do in my lifting program now.  I give them the option of an upper body pull and upper body press exercise that they choose.  I prefer these press: military press, bench press, incline press, and dips and I prefer these pulls: curls, inverted rows on a stability ball, and pull-ups.  They get to choose which one do on a lifting day.  It's that simple, i give them a choice on upper body, but I have complete control over lower body, and sometimes I have to stop the curls and flat bench from becoming their only upper body lifts.  I prefer incline and inverted rows as the main upper body lifts, but I want some variance in the upper body lifts.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 18, 2006 at 2:17 am #60882

I know sprinters shouldn't lift too heavy with upper body, I only work upper body to improve my swinging phase so it can remain consistent from start to finish. Mid and Lower Body is the key to all the power… when I am in a race I don't go full speed or I will get a slower time, I only run at 90-95% because I can develop more power with my legs to push off the ground. My abs and lower back will help stabalize my running form so I won't tire out at the end of the race and lose my form.

So… I have mentioned the swinging phase which I have tried to perfect… and I have discussed the importance of lower body power and core stabilization.

I see it like this… I need to get use to hard running so it no longer becomes hard but becomes easier to push myself even harder. You get faster by having proper "full body" movement and most power comes from pushing off your lower body as fast as possible with the most power from lower body. The core work stabilizes that power you are using such as are called "core lifts" which can help any athlete.

I also try to use speed drills… the only ones that I use at the moment are… high knees, butt kicks, kareoke, backwards running, quick steps, & bounding I am talking with another track runner about some speed drills he does, he is visiting from florida.

I have tried to strengthen my ankles by walking on the outside of both feet, then the inside, then face my feet toward each other like a triangle and walk on the balls of my feet, then outside etc… because you really won't get any benefit by using weight lifting to strengthen the ankles.

but this is just a small piece of some of my training. -thanks for the advice on the lifts… if anyone else has any training advice for me I'd be glad to use it.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on December 18, 2006 at 2:48 am #60883

I know sprinters shouldn't lift too heavy with upper body, I only work upper body to improve my swinging phase so it can remain consistent from start to finish. Mid and Lower Body is the key to all the power… when I am in a race I don't go full speed or I will get a slower time, I only run at 90-95% because I can develop more power with my legs to push off the ground. My abs and lower back will help stabalize my running form so I won't tire out at the end of the race and lose my form.

So… I have mentioned the swinging phase which I have tried to perfect… and I have discussed the importance of lower body power and core stabilization.

I see it like this… I need to get use to hard running so it no longer becomes hard but becomes easier to push myself even harder. You get faster by having proper "full body" movement and most power comes from pushing off your lower body as fast as possible with the most power from lower body. The core work stabilizes that power you are using such as are called "core lifts" which can help any athlete.

I also try to use speed drills… the only ones that I use at the moment are… high knees, butt kicks, kareoke, backwards running, quick steps, & bounding I am talking with another track runner about some speed drills he does, he is visiting from florida.

I have tried to strengthen my ankles by walking on the outside of both feet, then the inside, then face my feet toward each other like a triangle and walk on the balls of my feet, then outside etc… because you really won't get any benefit by using weight lifting to strengthen the ankles.

but this is just a small piece of some of my training. -thanks for the advice on the lifts… if anyone else has any training advice for me I'd be glad to use it.

i would love to race against you if u r only going 90-95%

[cerebro]

cerebro on December 18, 2006 at 2:50 am #60884

I know sprinters shouldn't lift too heavy with upper body, I only work upper body to improve my swinging phase so it can remain consistent from start to finish. Mid and Lower Body is the key to all the power… when I am in a race I don't go full speed or I will get a slower time, I only run at 90-95% because I can develop more power with my legs to push off the ground. My abs and lower back will help stabalize my running form so I won't tire out at the end of the race and lose my form.

There strength needed for swinging the arms is so minimal that you don't even need weight exercises to accomplish it, so that should not be your purpose in lifting weights for the upperbody in my opinion. Streghthening the upperbody will help, in my experience and others, develop strength in the whole body and also lead to more balance. You will need some upper body strength just to be able to complete certain lifts. If you only run 90% you will not run fast. If you are talking about running relaxed, that is different. Being relaxed may allow you to run your best (I say may because some people run better when they are less relaxed, at least, mentally). If you run 90% of your full speed you will get spanked.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 18, 2006 at 7:52 pm #60885

what I mean is that I try to run relaxed… I try to run as fast as I possibly can with the most controlled form. I feel that the quicker I try to swing my legs I won't be able to use the benefit of all the power I have in my lower body. That's what I meant.. because some sprinters run tense and try to use more "force" I try to run as relaxed as possible and level out my strength from start to finish.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 18, 2006 at 8:02 pm #60886

I believe that core lifts (ol's, squats, and press) are the best lifts to use. But that can apply to "many" athletes. As a sprinter I should try to strengthen "specific" muscle groups. And what I really want is to train these muscle groups by hitting the highest percentage of motor
units with those specific core exercises.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on December 18, 2006 at 8:03 pm #60887

I believe that core lifts (ol's, squats, and press) are the best lifts to use. But that can apply to "many" athletes. As a sprinter I should try to strengthen "specific" muscle groups. And what I really want is to train these muscle groups by hitting the highest percentage of motor
units with those specific core exercises.

this thread is very silly, not making much sense.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 19, 2006 at 1:23 am #60888

Even though (ol's/ squats/press) can help many athletes. I am already doing the basics. What I want is the more specific variations of these exericses, that can go along with the "basic movements". For example some ppl might convert from doing the full sqaut in pre-season then change it to 1/2 squat then 1/4 squat. That is what I mean by "Specific". What are the best Olympic Lifts to do? regular or pull?
Squats… what would be the best variations for sprinters to do? Like maybe Jump squats or step ups etc.
What about press movements… there are many press exercises that involve shoulders, chest, tricep etc., what are the best specific exercises for press movements.
I already made a list above about all this… If "anyone" has more specific exercises besides the basics. Then I could use these more beneficial exercises rather than bulking up. That is why I tried cutting weights for a while, because as a sprinter I need to be lean and strong and I believe you guys can help me with that. I have already been doing the basics, and I feel as of now it would be in my best interest to begin with some more specific exercises.

[thenextbestthing]

thenextbestthing on December 19, 2006 at 3:51 am #60889

<b>Even though (ol's/ squats/press) can help many athletes. I am already doing the basics.</b> What I want is the more specific variations of these exericses, that can go along with the "basic movements". For example some ppl might convert from doing the full sqaut in pre-season then change it to 1/2 squat then 1/4 squat. That is what I mean by "Specific". What are the best Olympic Lifts to do? regular or pull?
Squats… what would be the best variations for sprinters to do? Like maybe Jump squats or step ups etc.
What about press movements… there are many press exercises that involve shoulders, chest, tricep etc., what are the best specific exercises for press movements.
I already made a list above about all this… If "anyone" has more specific exercises besides the basics. Then I could use these more beneficial exercises rather than bulking up. That is why I tried cutting weights for a while, because as a sprinter I need to be lean and strong and I believe you guys can help me with that. I have already been doing the basics, and I feel as of now it would be in my best interest to begin with some more specific exercises.

what do u mean by that???

hint: this website has countless articles and other resources that can help your dilema. i suggest u do a little reading before you embarass yourself any more.

[cerebro]

cerebro on December 19, 2006 at 5:17 am #60890

Even though (ol's/ squats/press) can help many athletes. I am already doing the basics. What I want is the more specific variations of these exericses, that can go along with the "basic movements". For example some ppl might convert from doing the full sqaut in pre-season then change it to 1/2 squat then 1/4 squat. That is what I mean by "Specific". What are the best Olympic Lifts to do? regular or pull?

Worrying about things like this is not going to do much for you in the long run. Unless you are at the very top, worrying about going full then 1/2 then 1/4 probably won't do much, maybe hurt. If you figured out a way it would help and timed everything perfectly, maybe it would take off a hundreth or two, which probably isn't that big of a deal yet. Squat to parallel or below, do olympic lifts, especially the power versions (pulls if you don't have adequate technique), and get stronger.

Don't worry so much about specifity when you have a long way to go. I know it is hard to not worry about very small details as I do it sometimes myself. In reality, it is working your ass off on the big things and getting big improvement there. Once you get to a certain level of development and/or have an extremely dedicated, alert, and intelligent coach you can worry about the little minutia that will take off those last hundreths. I'd worry more about getting therapy (massage, ART, contrast showers, etc.) than when to change my depth on the squat.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 21, 2006 at 2:30 am #60891

I am not worried about specifity, I am worried about bulking up, I want to be lean and strong. I don't need to have specifics about changing from a full squat to 1/4 squat… just as long as I know it's a squat. I hope you get my point. I believe I should use more exercises falling into the Ol's/squats/ and press category… and I suppose that is what I mean by specific. The List that I mentioned above are just a bunch of exercises, I just wanted to make it more simple for you guys to read by putting the exercises within the specific muscle groups… it is not my routine it's just a list that I would like to use for myself and other sprinters alike… I have made some remarks on some of the exercises and you guys can too… actually if you want to you can copy my list and edit it so that all sprinters alike can use it without it getting too much into specifics, I would just like a bunch of exercises falling into the Ol's/squats/press category.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 21, 2006 at 2:47 am #60892

I don't think I have any place to disagree with any experienced trainer here.
I may have mislead you guys with some of the other replys I made. But all I want is a good list of exercises…. simply put. The only area in which I lack knowledge of is in my strength training. I  have already been commited to my other areas of training.

Speed training (Anaerobic)
Capacity Training (Aerobic)
Hill Training
Event Specific Training
… (Personal Training) … etc.

I would just like a helpful list of weight lifting exercises that could improve my Strength Training.

[thenextbestthing]

thenextbestthing on December 21, 2006 at 3:03 am #60893

<b>I am not worried about specifity, I am worried about bulking up, I want to be lean and strong. </b>I don't need to have specifics about changing from a full squat to 1/4 squat… just as long as I know it's a squat. I hope you get my point. I believe I should use more exercises falling into the Ol's/squats/ and press category… and I suppose that is what I mean by specific. The List that I mentioned above are just a bunch of exercises, I just wanted to make it more simple for you guys to read by putting the exercises within the specific muscle groups… it is not my routine it's just a list that I would like to use for myself and other sprinters alike… I have made some remarks on some of the exercises and you guys can too… actually if you want to you can copy my list and edit it so that all sprinters alike can use it without it getting too much into specifics, I would just like a bunch of exercises falling into the Ol's/squats/press category.

you should not be worried about bulking up. you should just be trying to get stronger and more powerful in all areas (improve your power to weight ratio). the only time when gaining mass is a priority is during the early pre-season (if you really need it). but after that it is all strength and power. you dont  want excess body mass, you are a 200/400 runner.

if you want to be lean they only thing you can do to effect that is your diet. lean means low body fat. only a good diet can accomplish that.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 21, 2006 at 3:31 am #60894

[b]you should just be trying to get stronger and more powerful in all areas[/b]

Yes definitely… That is why I would just like a helpful list of weight lifting exercises that could improve my Strength Training.

All I need is a good list of exercises. The only area in which I lack knowledge of is in my strength training. I have already been commited to my other areas of training.

Speed training (Anaerobic)
Capacity Training (Aerobic)
Hill Training
Event Specific Training
… (Personal Training) … etc.

[cerebro]

cerebro on December 21, 2006 at 3:33 am #60895

you don't need anymore exercises. get better at the ones you are doing now.

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 21, 2006 at 4:52 am #60896

Temporary Reply:

Here is part of a reply posted earlier by Danimal:

All I know is if I spent time teaching these lifts, my kids would be excellent weightlifters/bodybuilders, but likely so-so runners/sprinters.

This was his reponse to my Strength Training exercises.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on December 21, 2006 at 7:22 am #60897

Temporary Reply:

Here is part of a reply posted earlier by Danimal:

[quote] All I know is if I spent time teaching these lifts, my kids would be excellent weightlifters/bodybuilders, but likely so-so runners/sprinters.

This was his reponse to my Strength Training exercises.
[/quote]

1. Squat
2. Deadlift
3. Snatch
4. Clean
5. Military
6. Flat Bench
7. Incline Bench
8. Pull up
9. Curls
10. Inverted Row
11. Dips
12. Push-Ups
13. Lunges

Those are the only 13 exercises I use in the weightroom.  It takes long enough to learn those 13 lifts, but they only use 4 lifts in a single session consisting of 2 lower body and 2 upper body.  With an injured athlete I may use some one-legged exercises, just so they have something to do on the lower body.  However, I realize the limitations in learning too many skills at the same time.  So when we first start practice it's only squat, deadlift, bench, and curls, until I see proper adaptation in learning to sprint mechanics and lifting technique.  It all works out well this way too because they are developing starting strength with those lifts and most typically we are working on acceleration mechanics.    Most of my kids never do more than 8 of those 13 in a season.  Maybe 2 or 3 who work year round with me know all 13 plus some others and why I use each lift  and how they correspond to the training they are doing.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 21, 2006 at 10:45 am #60898

Other than in VERY special circumstances it would be best to steer clear of muscle-specific movements. One of the best guidelines for exercise selection is to train movements not muscles. That is, determine the movements that are critical to performance in your event and then select exercises that train those movements under similar circumstances.

ELITETRACK Founder

[wise-one]

wise-one on December 22, 2006 at 8:54 am #60899

Other than in VERY special circumstances it would be best to steer clear of muscle-specific movements. One of the best guidelines for exercise selection is to train movements not muscles. That is, determine the movements that are critical to performance in your event and then select exercises that train those movements under similar circumstances.

I agree with what you are saying and I think this quote can explain that best from part of this article that I read.

Also I apprecaite that list of exercises Danimal, I am very interested in finding new "sprint-specific" weight training exercises but I seem to get different opinions from different ppl, but what you've have mentioned makes sense. -Thanks

Exercise Selection

Power = Force x Velocity

Since the velocity (???rate of force development???) component is developed through sprint training itself, priority in the gym is to develop maximum force. This is best achieved through the use of ???limit??? strength exercises. A limit strength exercise is defined here as a compound exercise that safely permits the expression of maximum force. The exercises should be free weight, multi-joint and specific to muscles used in sprinting (e.g. hip, knee and ankle extensors). These types of exercise also stimulate an acute increase in the secretion of anabolic hormones (testosterone and growth hormone).

Exercise Variety

???If an exercise is worth doing, it is worth doing all the time???

??? Introducing new exercises exposes athlete to a conditioning risk
??? Any training benefit gained will be quickly lost if not maintained
??? Small changes in performance, (e.g. incline rather than flat bench) provide variation without associated conditioning/detraining risks

Core Exercises

These are exercises for postural muscles that allow efficient transmission of force from the lower to the upper body:

??? Spinal Erectors: Hyper ???extension, Glute-Ham raise, Front Support
??? Abdominal (Spinal Flexors): Crunch, Cable Crunch, Sit-up, Incline Sit-up, ???Woodchopper???, Pillar, Leg raise, Pikes etc
??? Obloquies: Side bends, Side Supports, Side Hyper-extensions

Many of the core exercises like  squats and pulls require high activation of the so-called ???core??? muscles in order to stabilize the spine. It has been argued therefore that additional specific exercises (particularly for the spinal erectors) may be unnecessary.

Core exercises with Swiss balls have become popular in recent years. Lack of stabilization however, reduces maximum activation in the prime movers therefore, until research suggests otherwise, I will continue to advocate these more traditional exercises.

General Vs Specific programs

??? I define a strength exercise as one that permits a maximal expression of strength
??? ???Specific??? exercises (e.g. single leg squats) reduce stability hence inhibiting the expression of strength