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    Posted In: Sprints

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 11, 2004 at 8:45 am #9103

          Today my athletes had a meet. To put it mildly, we ran terrible. I recorded every race, and I broke down every race in 100 meter intervals. I noticed in EVERY SINGLE RACE with EVERY SINGLE ATHLETE, all of their subsequent 100s were slower than the previous one. I have NO IDEA why this is though. I do know that it isn't supoosed to be this way. Here is the breakdown of each runner in each race. . . .

          4 x 200 – (1st 100, 2nd 100)
          1st leg (14.17, 14.87) *29.04*
          2nd leg (14.04, 15.09) *29.13*
          3rd leg (13.00, 14.78) *27.78*
          4th leg (13.99, 14.05) *28.04*

          4 x 400 – (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th)
          1st leg – couldn't get splits
          2nd leg – (14.93, 15.15, 17.92, 19.92) *1:07.9*
          3rd leg – (14.24, 16.83, 18.05, 19.10) *1:08.2*
          4th leg – (15.04, 16.75, 18.01, 19.03) *1:08.8*

          mike, 400, Alex, drivephase, QUIK, I'm calling on all elitetrack members to help me with this. I'm seriously confused as to why this is happening. Thoughts anyone?

        • Participant
          onk on April 11, 2004 at 8:56 am #27032

          what was their previous time

        • Member
          alex on April 11, 2004 at 9:50 am #27033

          In a normal open 200, the second 200 is usually faster than the first 200, however since all the legs except for the first one in a 4*2 are off of a flying start, it may not be that unusual for the second 100 to be slower than the first. Same goes for the 4. Usually the second 100 in the 4 is the fastest, but since the athletes have a flying start it may not neccasarily work this way.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 13, 2004 at 10:16 am #27034

          I understand but even the pop off leg in the 4 x 200, her 2nd 200 time was way slower than her first. And for the rest of them, even if what you are syaing is true, it isn't supposed to be THAT much difference is it?

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 13, 2004 at 10:19 am #27035

          [i]Originally posted by onk[/i]
          what was their previous time

          Two weeks ago, at our last meet, the 1st leg popped off at 26.5. The second leg, this was her first meet, but she runs consistent 19's for our 150 workouts. The third leg, that was a PR for her (she is a freshman). And the anchor leg runs consistent 20's during 150 workouts. And she also has a PR of 26.45.

        • Participant
          onk on April 13, 2004 at 11:28 am #27036

          maybe proper stretching have not been done?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 13, 2004 at 12:32 pm #27037

          Have you considered that in addition to what Alex mentioned that your splits may be inaccurate due to the stagger, placement of the handoffs relative to the 200m segment, and perspective error causing you to not be able to accurately see where the handoffs were occurring.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 13, 2004 at 6:31 pm #27038

          [i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
          Have you considered that in addition to what Alex mentioned that your splits may be inaccurate due to the stagger, placement of the handoffs relative to the 200m segment, and perspective error causing you to not be able to accurately see where the handoffs were occurring.

          As for perspective error, I don't know. Could be. However, I went frame by frame on my digital camcorder to get the splits. Does that make a difference?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 14, 2004 at 1:30 pm #27039

          If you timed based off of the digital video then the timing of what you are seeing is accurate, the question though with perspective error is if what you are seeing is what is actually occuring. For instance, if you timed a 100m race standing at the 20m mark, you could probably time the start fairly accurately because you're closer to it and also because you could watch the smoke of the gun, but your accuracy in timing the finish of the race would likely be terrible because of perspective error.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 14, 2004 at 6:37 pm #27040

          Thanks mike.

          Well ok, this brings me back to my original question and post. (see above)

          What would you say is the problem, and how could I fix this?

        • Participant
          Derrick Brito on April 14, 2004 at 11:29 pm #27041

          id say dont worry about it too much. 🙂 was that the first time they had run the 4×200 together? i forgot why i wanted to ask that question…. but also you coach HS athletes right? i think most HS athletes run the first 100 faster than the second in the 200. im pretty sure i do. because a lot of HS athletes dont know how to run a proper 200 (i dont), they just run as fast as they can the whole way, which means fast first and slow later. maybe you have to teach them proper race strategy. and if their splits are simply worse then what they normally are, maybe they just had a bad day.

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 15, 2004 at 12:58 am #27042

          Seems sensible. Thoughts from anyone else?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 15, 2004 at 2:27 am #27043

          I wasn't too alarmed about it either given the level of the athletes. As for perspective error, where are you recording from?

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 15, 2004 at 3:02 am #27044

          I am recording from the top of the stands at about the 50m mark. I also have zoom on the camcorder.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 16, 2004 at 5:27 am #27045

          You would definitely get perspective error from there. You could conceivably get a good shot of all handoffs if it were in a stadium but on bleachers your recordings may distort where things are actually occuring. Also, how do you time splits:
          1. when the baton gets handed off?
          2. when the baton reaches the end of the segment distance?
          3. when the incoming runner reaches the end of the segment distance?

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Jay Turner on April 16, 2004 at 7:17 am #27046

          Well this particular track the seats went up fairly high, so I don't know, maybe that still had an effect.

          I time the splits when the baton reaches the end of the segment distance. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 19, 2004 at 2:07 am #27047

          [i]Originally posted by DaGovernor[/i]
          I time the splits when the baton reaches the end of the segment distance. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be?

          That's the way I'd do it.

          ELITETRACK Founder

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