Does an athlete need a certian strength baseline in limit strength exercises before olys lead to increased preformance on the track?
when to begin olys
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Participant
i dont think so. the faster you can get someone to teach you good the better.
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KeymasterI’ve never understood the logic behind waiting to do the OLs until certain strength levels are developed. The OLs offer many benefits besides just the development of explosive strength (which can still be developed even if absolute strength is not high). For instance, the OLs develop coordination and kinesthetic awareness to a greater degree than most other lifts. Such benefits can be achieved by using very light weights and good technique.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
in the weight room the trainer was showing the throwers how to do the power clean. When i was observing( i am a 5k runner) because of all the wonderful things i have heard about them from this site the coach approached me. He told me that unless i played football or was a thrower i didn’t need it. Was i told wrong and should do it anyway( after perfting the form ofcourse with only the bar)
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Participant
KW,
Specifically, how do you think it has helped your distance runners? -
Keymaster
Strength and power gains (regardless of how they achieved) will benefit running economy which is key to distance running success. The OLs are one of the best ways to develop speed-strength in an “athletic” manner.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
I agree with what Mike said above, plus it is a very productive training session that does not involve more running(!) I don’t think this should be underestimated. I know Paula Radcliffe lifts twice a week at various stages of the year, and lifts respectable weights for her bodyweight. She is probably the worlds hardest trainer and I’m sure that these non-running sessions must help her recovery and ability to stay healthy.
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Participant
I agree to. It makes sense. If the same applies to a sprinter, by cleaning you can increase power, which will increase the amount of force you apply to the ground, which can increase turnover and stride length. Why wouldn’t this very thing apply to distance runners?
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Member
I’m not so great a fan of the O lifts as many of the former posts, so I offer this as a point of discussion. Any lift can be done explosively. Olympic lifts take years to learn to do properly. Any lifts performed with a barbell in your hands produce large amounts of stress on your body, possibly limiting effective training volume. Hip, hamstring, low back strength can be developed using squats, good mornings, and other less complex movement. Just asking people to keep open minds and hoping researchers start looking at elite samples or start learning to translate Russian.
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Participant
[i]Originally posted by bendragon[/i]
I’m not so great a fan of the O lifts as many of the former posts, so I offer this as a point of discussion. Any lift can be done explosively. Olympic lifts take years to learn to do properly. Any lifts performed with a barbell in your hands produce large amounts of stress on your body, possibly limiting effective training volume. Hip, hamstring, low back strength can be developed using squats, good mornings, and other less complex movement. Just asking people to keep open minds and hoping researchers start looking at elite samples or start learning to translate Russian.First it does not take years to learn the OL’s for some it can take mere minutes. Thats a fallacy passed on by coaches who cant teach the lifts.
I believe you have taken what simmons said about holding a barbell in your hands and taken it out of context, he was refering to Powerlifters, where squating heavy and deadlifting heavy in the same cycle is too much cns stress.Any lift can be done explosivly but the OL’s offer so much compared to most other lifts. For examlpe in the squat clean you can develop so many strength qualities like starting strength, acceleration-strength, strength-speed, as well as eccentric amoritization in the catch phase of the lift. The power snatch offers flexability-strength, speed-strength and lateral balance if one chooses to do the split version. On top of that there are so many OL variations one can use them to develop ablsoute strength as well. The list goes on and on.
As far as russian research there are many translated russian texts and many of them about top russian weightlifters, medvedev, davorkin, oleshko, Roman. Eeven the late great Dr.Mel Siff was a huge fan of using the OL’s lifts as a form of supplementary training for sports performance.
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Participant
Dynamic box squats are a great lift. I’d like to see a pepsi challenge between them and hang cleans.
I am a huge fan of west side methods. Without doing a single power clean for 2 years I managed to increase my power clean by 80 lbs. The overall strength gains I have gotten have been incredible. Dynamic effort box squats and a plethora of max effort movements have been the cornerstone of my training for several years. The big asterix is that I was not competing in sport (other than powerlifting) during this time.
Now that I am getting back into athletics the issue that I have been having with west side is that it is very difficult to implement dynamic effort, max effort, and all the accessory work while doing a sport. I simply can’t recover. In track absolute strength is only one parameter. Hell, I had a 525 squat last year as a 148 lifter and my explosive strength parameters (vert, SLJ, 40) were not much better than when I was running 50-60 mpw as a college 800m runner.
With that in mind, I think one valid argument for olympic lifts in athletes is recovery. You are able to complete intense, explosive multijoint movements and recover for your training session and/or competition. That is huge.
Olympic lifts can definitely fit into a conjugate system for an athlete. No matter how effective something is you will ultimately get diminishing returns if you do not include variation. So I agree with you saying you should do all kinds of lifts explosively (especially squats).
I know the snatch is really technical, but seriously I think a monkey could learn to do high pulls and power cleans…
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Member
I always do an OL followed by a squat/deadlift variation. My way of using conjugate periodization is to switch the emphasis back-and-forth from the OL to the powerlift every three weeks. When the OL is emphasized I will either reduce the percentage or volume of the powerlift accordingly. When the powerlift is emphasized I will keep the OL ar around 75% and it serves more or less as a warmup.
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Keymaster
[i]Originally posted by senri[/i]
i do OL on seperate day then powerlifts like the squat and RDL bench etc, should i do the major lifts all in a given session? i’m afraid i wont perform as well if i do OLs followed by a squat.From this and some of your other posts it seems as if you are overly concerned about your weight room numbers. Cleans shouldn’t have a major effect on your other lifts. In fact every successful Olympic weightlifting routine I’ve seen combines OLs with strength lifts (squats) in the same session…….and these people are weightlifters (who would actually have a reason to be concerned about not being able to handle maximal loads in a session) and you are a track athlete! Even most track programs use OLs and strength lifts in the same session.
ELITETRACK Founder
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