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    You are at:Home»Forums»General Discussions»Blog Discussion»When to break the rules

    When to break the rules

    Posted In: Blog Discussion

        • Participant
          Carl Valle on September 3, 2010 at 12:25 am #17003

          Coach Vick posted some great thoughts on resisted sprints with sleds and questioned the 10% rule. When something innovative or new comes along I am completely open but skeptical because often people believe they have stumbled on something other’s didn’t grasp or think of. The question is can we use acceleration protocols that are not following the guidelines of the coaches before us regarding h

          Continue reading…

        • Member
          B Hobbs on September 3, 2010 at 2:37 am #101639

          This is exactly what I was alluding to last night. I just wanted to here an answer from him before I dove as deep as you. Stop stealing my Thunder. lol

        • Participant
          star61 on September 3, 2010 at 1:41 pm #101658

          What studies, or even a series of documented obervations, say that 10% is optimum? Remember, some here are coaching football, not sprinters. I like heavy sleds and steep hills, along with Olys and squats, because they are one step closer to actual sprinting. I feel that the heavy sleds and steep hill are a bridge between the gym and actual acceleration. I haven’t seen any negative effects and haven’t seen anything that suggests its wrong. If you have such data, please post it.

        • Participant
          CoachVick on September 3, 2010 at 1:47 pm #101659

          Carl those are really good points. I entirely agree that first you need to learn the rules, and use the rules before considering breaking them. If you are going to break them, make sure you are truly observing what’s happening when you do. Lastly, I believe that its generally better to do less than more, so if you are going to add or change an element, what about everything else.

          To your point, I edged toward some heavier loads, when using it to train the 40 yd dash. I would use very heavy loads with a release to strictly have them set-up and “feel” tension in the start position. (big problem for a down lineman who is trained to be “balanced” in that position) This has worked very well. Later, it advanced to a step or two before the release. What I saw were positive motor control changes.

          Like many things in this field, trends take over and I suspect too many people are employing heavy resistance instead of good sprint training or good strength training. The pendulum often swings too far.

          Specifically related to my post about resisted sprinting;

          I do use heavy resistance at times, but if we looked at the overall use across time, it would be relatively small.

          The question regarding whether it would be better to do more targeted strength work is really important to me. My roots are as an Olympic lifting coach so I always like that on some level. However, I think the reasons I will employ the heavy sleds come from a few directions. One is that I work with a lot of football and rugby players. There non-specific strength and power qualities are often better developed than some other athletes including some track athletes.

          Next, although I mentioned special strength, this is probably the reason I use it the least. If that is the goal, then it has probably been part of the overall strength progression. What I use the heavy sleds for the most is as a technical tool or for potentiation.

          Potentiation is relatively straight forward in theory but more challenging in application. The research is still mixed, but I’m of the opinion that with a trained athlete, it works best when it is applied with heavy loads and low reps.

          The technical piece is different. For many of my team sport athlete who have terrible awareness of what they are doing compared to a track athlete or Olympic lifter, the heavier resistance gives them better feedback relative to their strength/power levels. It can build a better awareness of small faults and body positions.

          The second “technical” aspect I’m only hypothesizing about. As I mentioned, what I have observed that was positive, is mostly motor control issues. I have seen some very dramatic technical improvements when using this contrast method, but more so than with lower loads. So the question I asked was WHY?

          One potential reason has to do with a dynamical systems view of motor control. When someone has a “stable” motor pattern with stable attractors, to move to a new pattern, you often need to disrupt the current state. I have some suspicion that that very heavy load, is effective at disrupting the stability of the system, and allows new patterning during the unresisted sprints.

          So with most people I still think good strength training will give you an awful lot of benefit. Sleds may replace them if we are talking about a well programed phase of special strength. However, I think heavy sleds give us some really interesting tools for the technical aspects of teaching acceleration.

        • Member
          B Hobbs on September 3, 2010 at 2:20 pm #101661

          I think this would be a great debate because there is no research either way that give definitive evidence of effectiveness. I have never heard of the 10% rule and I have been coaching D1 track and field for 5 years. Maybe that knowledge comes year 7. Ironically I find myself using loads in the 12-15% the most ideal for my goals as a horizontal jumps coach. I can certainly see the benefits of greater loads as it relates to football not just in 40 times but can simulate pushing an O or D linemen or a WR or RB dragging tacklers.

          I think it comes down to the goals you are trying to accomplish. And contrasting repetitions so that an athlete doesn’t loose complete sight of the technical aspects. Usually I end a resistance session with open striders as a cool down and to feel/remember the proper positioning.

        • Participant
          Martijn de Lange on September 3, 2010 at 6:30 pm #101663

          Henk Kraaijenhof mentions the 10% rule in an article on hill sprints from 1986. At the time Henk was coaching Nelli Cooman who set a world record 7.00s in the 60m indoors eclipsing the East Germans. She famously trained by using the ramps in a local parking garage. He writes that a steeper hill causes poor mechanics, like low hips and insufficient extension. He refers to a study by Schmidtbleicher, Antoni & Dietz “Innervationsmuster der Beinstreckmuskulatur bei Bergauflaüfen” in Leistungssport 5/1981, pages 350-356. I have it but it is buried somewhere in one the many boxes still unopened from my last move. Henk recommends a maximum of 10 degrees, but for very short distances (10-30m) it may be steeper.

          I have never really used the 10% rule in practice, which would require not only timing the hill run but also measuring the length of the hill and timing a flat run on a similar surface for the same distance. I just take the hill that is at my disposal and make sure that there is full extension.

        • Participant
          RussZHC on September 3, 2010 at 10:08 pm #101666

          Heard of the 10% “rule” from several sources (not unnamed, I just don’t have them in front of me) but most times it has to do more with visual observations in those studies i.e. seems to have been about “average” amount being used when good sprint form deteriorated.

          Same thing applies when talking about the angle of the hill but thinking has changed on that depending on exact detail(s) you are trying to work.

          The other often modified factor, compared to studies, is the distance/length of the pull or hill. IRRC most talk about a 20m to 30m “limit” but again having to do with breakdown of form. Does this mean if using say 5% without form breaking down one should go as far as possible before the form does change?

          The difficulty I often have is with these studies themselves. There are so many variables, the number of studies appears to be quite small and the groups studied quite varied (so one often questions validity in application to “my” specific group).

          FYI: I personally mistook the title as breaking a real rule…this is far more “suggestion” than rule as far as I am concerned

        • Member
          B Hobbs on September 4, 2010 at 6:45 am #101675

          Thanks for the article…now if I can only track down an english translation. any links??

          If no one uses it why is it then called a rule?? Russell raises some legitimate questions about decreasing loads and increasing distances… I think it comes down to coaching theory and Vicks article does a great job in raising some legitimate arguments.

        • Participant
          RussZHC on September 4, 2010 at 10:57 am #101681

          B. Hobbs:

          Not the English translation but some more sources:

          Blazevich and Jenkins (Journal of Sports Sciences 2002) weight of several types

          Cronin, Hansen, Kawamori et al (Sports Biomechanics, online pub date May 2008) weighted vests and sled towing

          Adrian Faccioni, (CACC site, not sure exactly where and may need to get membership, free), “Assisted and Resisted Methods for Speed Development”, sort of a highlight package lots of references to Mero and Komi’s work [oh yeah, 2 parts]

          Not really the specific topic (weight or hill or other resisted) but looking at
          Weyand, Sternlight, Bellizzi, “Faster top running speeds are achieved with greater ground forces not more rapid leg movements” (that was the full title, it is likely under “Mechanical Basis of Human Running Speed”) Journal of Applied Physiology 2000 (not sure of volume), really good IMO as it outlines what variables change the most etc.

          And I know there is more in the articles etc. elsewhere on this site.

        • Member
          B Hobbs on September 4, 2010 at 1:12 pm #101683

          B. Hobbs:

          Not the English translation but some more sources:

          Blazevich and Jenkins (Journal of Sports Sciences 2002) weight of several types

          Cronin, Hansen, Kawamori et al (Sports Biomechanics, online pub date May 2008) weighted vests and sled towing

          Adrian Faccioni, (CACC site, not sure exactly where and may need to get membership, free), “Assisted and Resisted Methods for Speed Development”, sort of a highlight package lots of references to Mero and Komi’s work [oh yeah, 2 parts]

          Not really the specific topic (weight or hill or other resisted) but looking at
          Weyand, Sternlight, Bellizzi, “Faster top running speeds are achieved with greater ground forces not more rapid leg movements” (that was the full title, it is likely under “Mechanical Basis of Human Running Speed”) Journal of Applied Physiology 2000 (not sure of volume), really good IMO as it outlines what variables change the most etc.

          And I know there is more in the articles etc. elsewhere on this site.

          awesome…this is why i love elitetrack

        • Participant
          Rich Tolman(mr-glove) on September 4, 2010 at 9:54 pm #101692

          One of Jess Jarver’s sprint books ( late 90’s? ) had a nice article about effects of various loads.

          May have been authored by Letzelter and Letzelter.

        • Participant
          Carl Valle on September 5, 2010 at 5:17 am #101700

          J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Mar;23(2):480-5.
          Determining the optimal load for resisted sprint training with sled towing.
          Alcaraz PE, Palao JM, Elvira JL.

          Department of Physical Activity and Sport Sciences, Kinesiology and Biomechanics Laboratory, San Antonio Catholic University of Murcia, Guadalupe, Murcia, Spain. pedro.e.alcaraz@gmail.com

          and more…..the key is what is detrimental….having people show up and working hard will get results but give the credit to the resistance helping with overload not speed development. Speed Strength and strength speed exist but they are not trumping sprinting + weights.

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