Why is everyone so infatuated with the ham/glute raise and the Russian/Nordic hamstring curls? These are both exercises that I threw out of my toolbox years ago, because I found that they were ineffective and predisposed the athletes to injury. I am not sure what people trying to accomplish with them? They are both training muscles. I prefer to train movements that stress muscles in an appropriate
Why Do We Do It If We Know Better?
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ParticipantLOL…
Contradictions all over the place again…
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LOL…
Contradictions all over the place again…
What do you mean?
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Who uses those exercises as main movements, most just use them in circuits or prehab routines with light weight. Big deal.
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Who uses those exercises as main movements, most just use them in circuits or prehab routines with light weight. Big deal.
You will be surprise,forum member trackboy is doing glutham with 35lbs. I totally agree with Vern 110%..
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Ya, i agree with him as well!…
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[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269975254"]Who uses those exercises as main movements, most just use them in circuits or prehab routines with light weight. Big deal.
You will be surprise,forum member trackboy is doing glutham with 35lbs. I totally agree with Vern 110%..[/quote]
More than I would ever think about doing.
So you guys disagree and see no value with ever doing those exercises for 1-2×10 of very light weight because they work the “muscle” and not the movement.
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Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
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I mention this somewhere earlier, I think it’s risky to perform those exercises when sprinting volume is high. I tend to focus more on hip extension exercises (as opposed to knee flexion exercises) for the hamstrings once we increase the volume of running.
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I have my athletes lift twice a week and they do RDL’s in one of those sessions. It has always been my exercise of choice for that area based off experience. In college I did hamstring curls and glute/ham raise for three years with hamstring issues every year. Did strictly RDL’s as a senior and had no issues whatsoever and my hamstrings felt very strong and flexible. Not sure of all the scientific reasoning etc. but I just feel like it is a more natural motion.
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Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?
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[quote author="Nick Newman" date="1269976377"]Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?[/quote]
He didn’t start doing hamstring work until this year because soreness etc.
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[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269981788"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1269976377"]Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?[/quote]
He didn’t start doing hamstring work until this year because soreness etc.[/quote]
So skipped the yogi’s as part of those circuits…..interesting.
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[quote author="utfootball4" date="1269982417"][quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269981788"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1269976377"]Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?[/quote]
He didn’t start doing hamstring work until this year because soreness etc.[/quote]
So skipped the yogi’s as part of those circuits…..interesting.[/quote]
What’s the big deal, it’s a GS circuit and one simple exercise of the circuit. It’s not going to be the difference between him jumping 8m .
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[quote author="utfootball4" date="1269982417"][quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269981788"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1269976377"]Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?[/quote]
He didn’t start doing hamstring work until this year because soreness etc.[/quote]
So skipped the yogi’s as part of those circuits…..interesting.[/quote]
Honestly those low intensity leg curls, yogi ham curls, bodyweight ghr seem to help with soreness for me.
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[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269983021"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1269982417"][quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269981788"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1269976377"]Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?[/quote]
He didn’t start doing hamstring work until this year because soreness etc.[/quote]
So skipped the yogi’s as part of those circuits…..interesting.[/quote]
Honestly those low intensity leg curls, yogi ham curls, bodyweight ghr seem to help with soreness for me.[/quote]
That’s great, everyone is different, just like you guys don’t respond well to submax weights, tempo 300’s, and sled work.
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[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269983261"][quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269983021"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1269982417"][quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269981788"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1269976377"]Well i’ve never done it before once ever…but becuase i don’t like the idea of it or the look of it. For those reasons pretty much.
You never did those when you were with Mike, because they are definitely part of his circuits?[/quote]
He didn’t start doing hamstring work until this year because soreness etc.[/quote]
So skipped the yogi’s as part of those circuits…..interesting.[/quote]
Honestly those low intensity leg curls, yogi ham curls, bodyweight ghr seem to help with soreness for me.[/quote]
That’s great, everyone is different, just like you guys don’t respond well to submax weights, tempo 300’s, and sled work.[/quote]
Who said that?
I had my largest squat gain with a 4 week cycle of probably an average 7 reps per set.
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I second that. I’m clearly responding great to 80% weight lifting. …
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[quote author="Brooke Burkhalter" date="1269975254"]Who uses those exercises as main movements, most just use them in circuits or prehab routines with light weight. Big deal.
You will be surprise,forum member trackboy is doing glutham with 35lbs. I totally agree with Vern 110%..[/quote]
nvm then lol -
Member
I mention this somewhere earlier, I think it’s risky to perform those exercises when sprinting volume is high. I tend to focus more on hip extension exercises (as opposed to knee flexion exercises) for the hamstrings once we increase the volume of running.
So would it be ok to use these pre-season on an athlete that has notoriously week hamstrings with little to no weight? I don’t see why not, GHR and Swiss Ball Leg Curls help strengthen the hamstrings which will intern make someone less likely to have a hamstring injury.
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[quote author="utfootball4" date="1269976399"]I mention this somewhere earlier, I think it’s risky to perform those exercises when sprinting volume is high. I tend to focus more on hip extension exercises (as opposed to knee flexion exercises) for the hamstrings once we increase the volume of running.
So would it be ok to use these pre-season on an athlete that has notoriously week hamstrings with little to no weight? I don’t see why not, GHR and Swiss Ball Leg Curls help strengthen the hamstrings which will intern make someone less likely to have a hamstring injury.[/quote]
Curious why you must use those movements to develop weak hamstrings? There are so many other movements you can perform.
1: Rev hypers
2: Hypers
3: Hyper complex
4: RDL
5: RDL snatch grip
6: T-rdl
7: pull throughsI typically have a 3 week block within the training year where we may do glut hams.
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Member
I would argue that GHR strengthens the hamstring at both the hip and knee making it a better prehab exercise than those mentioned for simply helping someone who has a history of hammy injuries strengthen them. I’m not arguing that the exercises above aren’t great exercises but for strengthening the hamstring the best I would argue that that GHR is a better prehab exercise.
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I would argue that GHR strengthens the hamstring at both the hip and knee making it a better prehab exercise than those mentioned for simply helping someone who has a history of hammy injuries strengthen them. I’m not arguing that the exercises above aren’t great exercises but for strengthening the hamstring the best I would argue that that GHR is a better prehab exercise.
How is it strengthening the hamstring at the hip? If it is doing that, then you are probably not able to perform a correct GHR anyway because the movement at the knee is the limiting factor. Look at the movement itself–it is essentially a manual leg curl. Minimal strain at the hip and everything at the knee. How is it a better prehab exercise for sports than any of the other movements?
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Probably because you don’t have to move the joint to work it since your upper body is supported by the hamstring at the hip…if you didn’t hold this position your upper body would just fall over and you would not just be bending at the knee but at the waist as well. Just like Abs, you don’t have to move the muscle to work it, using them in a supporting role is still using them.
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Probably because you don’t have to move the joint to work it since your upper body is supported by the hamstring at the hip…if you didn’t hold this position your upper body would just fall over and you would not just be bending at the knee but at the waist as well. Just like Abs, you don’t have to move the muscle to work it, using them in a supporting role is still using them.
Yes, I know that you use them as a support. My point is that anyone who has the knee flexor strength to do a real GHR is not going to be challenged by the moderate stabilization of the hamstring at the hip. You are not providing any overload for the hamstring at the hip and greatly stressing the hamstring as a knee flexor.
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I’m just saying using them as an accessory lift…not replace squats and deads with them, you don’t need to go max effort to use them as prehab. GHR in my workouts are in no way a main or core lift.
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I’m just saying using them as an accessory lift…not replace squats and deads with them, you don’t need to go max effort to use them as prehab. GHR in my workouts are in no way a main or core lift.
Okay, but are there better options? Hypers/Reverse Hypers/RDL can serve the same purpose and do a better job @ stressing the hamstring specifically in a manner related to sports (lunge and DL variations as well, but they are not really accessory lifts). Further, they don’t cause the extreme tightness around the knee that GHRs can, which would be quite detrimental to an athlete.
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Member
I still don’t see how using little to no weight puts unnecessary stress on the knees, also how can you say that hypers/reverse hypers do a better job stressing the hamstring in the same manner in sports…in sports, you run, which requires bending the knees, so how are those more related to sports? I’m just curious, not trying to bash in any way
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I still don’t see how using little to no weight puts unnecessary stress on the knees, also how can you say that hypers/reverse hypers do a better job stressing the hamstring in the same manner in sports…in sports, you run, which requires bending the knees, so how are those more related to sports? I’m just curious, not trying to bash in any way
Trust me, you aren’t bashing. The questions you are asking are befuddling, however. The knee being bent doesn’t mean that the knee is actively flexing to a significant degree. When running, jumping, etc. you are most definitely flexing and extending (the key) the hip, which is how the hamstring is stressed in those other lifts.
A bodyweight GHR–done correctly–most definitely does place a ton of stress on the hamstring around the knee. Most people do them poorly, so maybe not, but even then, it is a glorified leg curl. Nothing more, nothing less. If you find leg curls having a significant place as a hamstring exercise in your program, then by all means include them. I’ve used them in the past and found no benefits over the other exercises mentioned and plenty negative.
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Do them right, problem solved.
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Do them right, problem solved.
Great, so keep doing your gh/Russian curls.
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I misread, your post and thought you meant that people do them poorly therefor placing a lot of stress on the knee. And if you do them on a machine, the fulcrum of the movement is in the middle of the thigh not at the knee where the hinge is. This takes much of the stress off the knee if done correctly, on a GHR machine, not just with someone holding your ankles on the floor.
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Participant
I misread, your post and thought you meant that people do them poorly therefor placing a lot of stress on the knee. And if you do them on a machine, the fulcrum of the movement is in the middle of the thigh not at the knee where the hinge is. This takes much of the stress off the knee if done correctly, on a GHR machine, not just with someone holding your ankles on the floor.
Might want to check your fizix if you believe the pad in the middle of the thigh on a GHR machine is acting as a fulcrum in any sort of classical sense.
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