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    Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 112,950 total)
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    Posted In: Structure Without Structure

    • Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 5:23 am · in reply to: Sprints #8298

      From Tank……”new high school coach, where do i start?”

      i guess i should give a little background on myself first. i graduated from university high school (HI) last year and am taking a year off before going back to college. this year i will be coaching my alma mater’s sprint team. i have nothing to go on. my high school sprint coach is gone, and the current head coach is a distance runner. i have use of UH’s mondo track on Monday and Wednesday,
      and a neighboring high school’s dirt track Tue, Wed, Thur. here’s the problems:

      -there are 90-100 kids that i will be dealing with.

      -do i train the group as 400m sprinters, and pull the 100-200m potentials and give them a seperate workout?

      -what order do i do my workouts in? (speed endurance, tempo endurance, power speed, endurance, strength endurance, speed)

      thanks for your time.
      =========================
      From me…..

      Hi and welcome to the list-
      I’d say that you would definitely want to split the short sprinters and long sprinters. The demands of each event are quite different.

      If you could, I’d definitely try to take advantage of your two days on the mondo track. You didn’t mention it in your post but I’m assuming you train Friday also. Taking these points into consideration, I’d probably set up a high school short sprinter’s week like this:

      Mon: Acceleration work (i.e.-10-30m repeats)
      Tues: Tempo work or something relatively easy like a low intensity plyo circuit or an extended warmup
      Wed: Max Velocity (i.e.-running repeats where the athlete is running 30-60m @ 95+% for each repeat).
      Thurs: Same as Tuesday
      Fri: Speed Endurance (i.e.- 90-250m repeats @ 85%)

      For a long sprinter I might takeout the acceleration day and maybe do two days of max velocity work or two days of speed endurance depending on where you are in the year. Something like this:

      Mon: Max Velocity (i.e.-running repeats where the athlete is running 30-60m @ 95+% for each repeat).
      Tues: Tempo work or something relatively easy like an aerobic circuit
      Wed: Speed Endurance (i.e.-90-250m repeats @ 85%)
      Thurs: same as Tuesday
      Fri: Max Velocity (i.e.-running repeats where the athlete is running 30-60m @ 95+% for each repeat).

      For the long sprinters, I might even consider switching the Wednesday and Friday workouts since it would be much better to do Max velocity work on mondo as opposed to dirt. The drawback to this would be that the athletes may not be able to recover fully if you really pound them hard.

      If you want to read more about sprint training theory, here are some links to related articles on ELITETRACK:

      https://elitetrack.com/periodization.htm

      https://elitetrack.com/plan.pdf

      https://elitetrack.com/strength.pdf

      https://elitetrack.com/sprinttheories.htm
      =========================

      From JJ…..

      Good luck with the team!

      Just one very minor discussion point for Mike:

      For the long sprinters, it might be beneficial to start with 1 day of acceleration development so that they can learn the proper acceleration pattern and mechanics. I also think that it allows for a more controlled environment to teach technique as compared to a fly 30 or fly 50 type situation. After 4-6 weeks, though, I agree that MaxV work could be done 2x/week.

      Like I said, minor point, but just another view.

      =========================

      From JJ-

      Good point. If the time is limited, maybe only 1-2 weeks of basic acceleration technique would be appropriate.
      =========================

      From Tank

      thanks everyone. i like the advice mike! it will definetly be put into consideration. jj, today i will talk with my head coach and see where your ideas could be implemented. i talked with my personal coach, dacre bowen. he’s a former canadian national teamer who ran for the ducks in college and was
      part of canada’s 76 olympic mile relay. i’ll start with everyone in the long sprints, because my better short sprinters will be running the mile relay, and they’ll need to be able to compete in multiple events, and i have the philosophy, you are a long sprinter untill you have proved otherwise. throughout the season i’ll recap my progress so you guys can critique it and give other HS coaches some ideas.

      the first four weeks or so we’ll be doing drills daily. lots of a’s and bounding. the kids’ form is terrible. i attended some preseason training sessions and almost died.

      monday’s and wednesdays will be their hard running days. tuesday, thursday and friday will be heavy drills and tempo on the infield grass. i don’t want them running on the dirt track because it will screw up their form. doing tempo on the grass will be good for the quartermilers because it will make them readust and reaccelerate every 100m, which will help them reassert themselves in the turns and out of the turns.

      mondays our workouts will be speed based, doing MaxV workouts and acceleration work. i’ll have them do acceleration work their first monday. after that, they’ll be doing MaxV on mondays, with the exception of the short sprinters, who will be sepatated from the long sprint group within the first two to three weeks.

      wednesdays, we will be doing speed endurance workouts.

      fridays will be MaxV work, untill the short sprinters are separated from the long sprinters.

      i’ll keep you posted, and thanks again!
      =========================
      From me….

      Tank-
      Great idea about the ‘progress reports.’ I think it will be interesting to follow the progress and get feedback. Thanks

      =========================
      From Todd…

      acceleration and v max

      JJ and Mike-

      How about this-
      Can acceleration and vmax both be hit on in the same day?? Maybe volumes for both are down just a tad.
      Example:
      For 30 meter fly you need 15-20 meters to accelerate, why not work it through a ladder or pushing emphasis mechanics and then hit the fly? maybe groupings of other work (i.e. multi jumps) isn’t quite a thematic, but still pretty close.
      thoughts?

      (side note)
      i know some aren’t big fans of ladders and tape marks, i’ve found great teaching use for acceleration with ladder using troch. length and % for athletes.

      todd

      =========================
      From JJ……

      Hey Todd,

      Sure, MaxV and Accel Dev. could be trained in one session if time/faciliites are an issue. The only reason I tend to separate them is b/c early on, I tend to isolate the components I’m trying to train. If I’m trying to teach the athlete the proper acceleration mechanics, I only want them to have to focus on that skill during the session. Once they have acquired that skill, we can start doing MaxV work with an acceleration zone run-in.

      As a rule, I don’t do a lot of MaxV work with my short sprinters until I see that they can consistently accelerate properly over 30-40m. Only then do I begin to do MaxV work. I find that with young sprinters, learning how to accelerate yields greater performance improvements. So many young sprinters have no concept of race distribution and how the acceleration phase sets up everything. As they mature, MaxV gradually becomes more a focus. Both qualities are being worked on, but I think that the emphasis changes slightly as the athlete improves.

      Just a personal teaching preference, I guess.

      =========================
      From Todd……

      JJ-

      I totally agree, we follow what you do with acceleration and vmax the exact same way.

      My point was probably more pointed towards facility and time usage with above scenario as you mentioned.

      I think an interesting dicussion would be how we all work with the different scenario we’re given.
      I’ll post that question in a separate link.

      Todd
      =========================

      From me.
      …..

      I think you can definitely work acceleration development and MaxV work together. In fact, I think it would be inconvenient and impractical to always separate the two. Like you said, if you’re running a workout like 4 x 60m @ 95%, then you are working on both acceleration development and MaxV. It’s easy to separate acceleration from MaxV but a little more difficult to completely isolate MaxV from acceleration development unless you are doing smooth and easy fly run-ins.

      =========================

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 10:44 am · in reply to: Jumps #8299

      posted on 7-6-2002 at 03:29 AM by flight05

      Triple Jumping

      Hi im new to this board..so be kind

      i know mike has a lot of expretise in this area so im going to throw it out there. Im only 16 and am wondering:

      what are the best tips you can give a triple jumper?

      how can i preserve all my speed and complete a successful triple jump without losing any speed?

      what are the best exercises/drills for TJ?
      (bounding, depth jumps)

      the coaches in my region are useless and i would have to drive 5 hours away to toronto to get decent coaching most likely!

      Thanks a lot!
      Rob
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-6-2002 at 08:49 PM by flight05

      follow up question…

      Follow up question…

      Do you include a lot of 200 metre sprints in your training at LSU? I heard that 200’s create that same rhythm for TJ.

      ALSO: I use a double arm swing on my hop phase, is this the best technique? I’m not sure. (I have a jumping style similar to Julian Kapek, [check his hop phase]except i dont jump nearly as far…)

      THANKS
      rob
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-7-2002 at 02:47 PM by Mike

      Some TJ suggestions

      For the list, here is a response I sent to Rob. General suggestions:
      -Don’t do any distance running stuff- a lot of high school age kids do
      this and it does them no good if they want to be their best in a power
      event such as TJ.
      -Get a good coach. As I’m sure you’re well aware of, TJing is one of
      the most technical events in T & F.
      -Get faster!
      -Learn to run a smooth and consistent approach.
      -Often times what you think is the problem is not really the
      problem…the problem is really caused by something else earlier on,
      so keep your mind ticking to figure our what may be at the root of
      your problems.

      More specifically:
      -Try to distribute effort equally during the 3 phases. This doesn’t
      mean = distances, but as I’m sure you realize, you don’t want to burn
      all your fuel in the hop and sputter out on the step & jump. Speed
      maintenance is very key.
      -Don’t be in a rush to cycle the leg through. This is opposite to what
      a lot of coaches teach but we’ve had excellent success with this.
      -Feel like you are projecting your hips beyond the takeoff foot. Do
      this for each takeoff. It will actually feel slower because you’ll be
      keeping your foot contact on the ground fractionally longer. The
      benefit is that you will get far greater horizontal displacement and
      better speed maintenance.
      -It sometimes helps if the first two phases have a flatter takeoff
      angle. This will help speed maintenance also. Take a look at Jonathan
      Edwards (the world record holder)- he looks like he is skipping across
      the ground like a rock is skipped across the surface of the water. His
      speed maintenance is unparalled in the event. He isn’t the fastest guy
      out there but he sets up his phases and maintains his speed better
      than everyone else.
      -There are a billion TJ drills. I really don’t have any favorites. The
      selection of drills should be dependent on your strengths and
      weaknesses and as such I can’t really say too much for you since I’ve
      never seen you jump.

      I’ll write more in bit.
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-8-2002 at 05:57 AM by Mike

      TJ advice

      Rob-
      If you don’t have a coach and are looking to educate yourself on the TJ you may want to try getting a video. Boo Schexnayder is probably the best TJ coach in the world (multiple national champions in both the men’s and women’s TJ) and he has an excellent video out on the TJ. Here is a site that sells this video: https://www.sportsnationvideo.com/lonjumtripju.html

      You may want to check out that video and it may also be helpful to get some of the better books on TJ and really learn your event. One mistake a lot of people make is just simply looking at elite athletes and assuming they are doing everything right. This is seldom ever the case. Yes, these individiduals are highly skilled but often times they may just be a one-in-a-million athlete that can perform well in spite of their technical deficiencies. If you understand the technique of your event first, then you can look at these elite performances and learn from their technical deficiencies as well as their proficiencies.

      As for the use of the arms, I think it’s more of a personal thing. If it does not disturb postural integrity or drastically decrease your speed, than a double-arm takeoff can certainly be more beneficial than a single arm takeoff. The problem is that not everyone can handle it without losing too much speed or throwing off the timing and balance of their jump. Elite performances have been achieved with both arm swings and I think it would be hard to say that one is better than the other for all athletes. Just see what works for you.

      As for 200s, yes we do them but it’s not for anything to do with the rhythm of the jump. We do them for the conditioning benefits. We do however do tons of runway work from short, medium and competition approach lengths. I think that this is the best way to develop the rhythm of the approach….if you want to be a better swimmer, don’t spend all your time on a bike….if you want to have a better approach…..practice the approach!
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-8-2002 at 06:00 PM by Mart

      Rob-

      I don’t TJ myself, but a friend of mine was US youth champ and is one of the better jumpers in D. II. Our club coach attributes a lot of his success to impressive leg strength (650lb squat @ bw of 150) and great core (abs & back) strength. I guess these would be good things to especially focus on. Also, as Mr. Young said, TJ requires a great coach to work with you. I would suggest trying to find one in your area, because it takes so much correction to perfect your form.
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-8-2002 at 06:34 PM by Mike

      Good points Mart-
      Strength is important, especially at the developmental levels. It’s good to think of strength as a foundation on which to develop power and speed.

      Core strength is also particularly important to the TJ because of the extreme forces that are imparted to the athlete in every phase. The landings and subsequent takeoffs cause unbalanced forces (becauses they are transferred from the ground to the body through a single and unbalanced contact point–> a single foot on one side of the athlete’s body) that have the potential to destroy a TJer’s technique. The arm swing helps to counteract the twisting of the shoulders that results, but the effectiveness of the arm swing is not only related to the magnitude and force of the swing, but also to the transfer of this swing to the torso and lower body. Core strength and stiffness should aid in this transfer and make the arm swing more effective.
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-8-2002 at 08:27 PM by flight05

      THANKS

      Thanks a lot all around!

      Do you think i should focus more on speed or power?

      because i thought speed was more important (jonathan edwards) so thats what im doing. Im doing short speed work like 20 metre sprints and 200 hurdle tempo runs @70% right now.

      ALSO: should i jump from a board that i end up half way through the pit? Or should i just want to barely make it into the pit?

      Thanks

      PS- At my school there is not an intelligent coach available
      (they’re too busy worrying about the distance runners and our scholarship 400m athlete (to Wisconsin) so jumps is not priority) At
      all competitions (when they do watch me[we have 4 coaches in total]), they just tell me to try harder when im not in the lead!

      PPS- i didnt become a triple jumper over time…it kinda happened over night!
      One meet i just got a PB of 11.41 metres and then a week later I jump 12.49 at the city wide meet!(over a metre in improvement) I was thinking on quitting TJ because i was so brutal…and now i am in the top ten in ontario (go figure) [maybe it was from watching jonathan edwards do the WR TJ over and over and ov…that just pumped me up?!

      PPPS that story happened in June, like last month…

      Thanks a lot for staying awake during my boring story…

      ~peace~
      Thanks a lot
      ROB
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-11-2002 at 01:55 PM by flight05

      1. Do you think i should focus more on speed or power?

      because i thought speed was more important (jonathan edwards) so thats what im doing.

      2. Should i jump from a board so that i end up half way through the pit? Or should i just want to barely make it into the pit?

      3. Would balance/stabilizer training be beneficial? How would i do that?

      4. How can i strengthen my ankles?
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-11-2002 at 11:39 PM by Mike

      1. Do you think i should focus more on speed or power?

      because i thought speed was more important (jonathan edwards) so thats what im doing.

      Speed maintenance is the most important thing. Jonathan Edwards is pretty fast, but far from the fastest guy out there. What separates him from everyone else is that he maintains the speed he has at the board through all the phases of the jump.

      So to answer your question, yes, speed is very important but what you are referring to (Edwards) is speed maintenance. I don’t really think you can separate speed and power too much. Speed refers to doing things at high velocity and power is basically referring to moving some kind of load quickly (that load might even be your own body). I don’t necessarily think there is a need to emphasize one over the other unless there is a serious deficiency in one or the other.

      2. Should i jump from a board so that i end up half way through the pit? Or should i just want to barely make it into the pit?

      For the most part, I’d jump so that you easily make it into the pit. Not only is this safer, but when you’re always stretching to reach the pit it could cause serious problems with your technique.

      3. Would balance/stabilizer training be beneficial? How would i do that?

      Balance and stability stuff may be somewhat beneficial. If you did want to do it, you could do some single leg stands, physioball exercises, etc.

      4. How can i strengthen my ankles?

      Here are a few ideas: get a stretch band, put it around your foot, and then write the alphabet with your toes. You could also try walking in sand, doing various types of isometric contractions with you foot in different positions, or some of the stability stuff will also strengthen the ankles. Just as an aside- why do you think your ankles need strengthening?
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-13-2002 at 12:06 AM by Mart

      Mr. Young,

      I was just wondering what kinds of drills (I hesitate to use this word here) you would use to introduce someone who doesn’t have much jumping background to long jumping and especially triple jumping? I have relativly good speed, but I have trouble translating this into distance in the LJ. I want to try and see if I can improve this before I decide whether I want to commit to serious jump training ( and spending less time on the sprints).
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-13-2002 at 05:23 AM by Mike

      Mart-
      I think the most fundamental elements of the jumps are learning how to set-u
      p a correct takeoff (penultimate step) and how to actually takeoff (takeoff foot mechanics and swinging segment usage).

      You are experiencing a very common problem–> having difficulty setting up a jump while you are running at high velocities. Setting up a jump is indeed a natural movement, but doing so at high speeds is not. Jumping for height (as in HJ) or distance (as in TJ, LJ) while running at near max velocities is something most people will need time to acquant themselves with. The following set of drills are simple and should help to accomplish this goal:

      run-run-jump, where you run a couple strides and then go into a penultimate step and takeoff

      short approach takeoffs emphasizing proper penultimate mechanics as well as takeoff foot action and swinging segment usage

      very low level single support plyos emphasizing the heel-midfoot-toe action of a proper takeoff
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-13-2002 at 01:10 PM by Mart

      Thanks very much!
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-19-2002 at 01:06 PM by flight05

      flat foot plant

      during which phases should i use the flat foot plant?

      I was taught to jump off of the balls of my feet?

      Inside one of your articles it express that you should have a flat take off foot on your last phase. Why would a flat foot plant be beneficial?

      thanks,
      rob
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-19-2002 at 08:20 PM by mike

      takeoff mechanics

      Every phase of the TJ should have either a flat foot takeoff (midfoot–>toe action) or a heel-midfoot-toe takeoff. In fact, every takeoff for every jump (LJ, PV, HJ, TJ) should be done in this manner. The reason for this is 2 fold:
      1. This will increase contact time with the ground. This might sound like a bad thing but it isn’t. You want to increase contact time so that you will be able to impart sufficient vertical impulses to the ground. The purpose of the approach is to develop horizontal velocity. Just prior to takeoff the jumper should be near maximal velocity. Because you want to project yourself in the air, a purely horizontal vector is not sufficient, you will need a vertical component. This vertical component comes from the takeoff mechanics. At takeoff you want to be applying big vertical forces so that you can turn your body into a projectile and make it actually leave the ground. The problem is that the horizontal velocity you developed in your approach will limit your ability to apply vertical forces because as you get faster your ground contact time will get shorter and the movement of your center of mass will get faster. The flat footed or heel–>toe takeoff allows you to have more time on the ground to generate those vertical forces.

      2. The second reason that a flat footed or heel–> toe takeoff would be advantageous is because the vertical forces needed to create a big takeoff would exceed the strength of most people’s gastroc-soleus (calve) muscles. As a result, even though you want to come down on your toe and take off of your toe, the forces you’d want to put into the board would make your heel hit the ground anyhow. In so doing, you’d lose the potential to impart maximal forces to the board. Here’s a simple exercise to illustrate this point: try to do heavy leg presses by pressing up through your toes instead of through your heels (flat footed).
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-19-2002 at 10:10 PM by flight05

      press

      So which phase should I use a midfoot-toe take off and when should I use the heel-toe takeoff? I know i should use a heel-toe takeoff for LJ but what about TJ? heel-toe for all phases or just the last one?

      When I do leg presses I generate more power using my toes as well…

      thanks
      rob
      ===============================================
      =================

      posted on 7-22-2002 at 07:11 PM by mike

      Whether ou do flat footed or heel–> toe is a matter of preference and ankle/achilles tendon flexibility. Also, to go back to my leg press example…are you doing the whole movement up on the balls of your toes or are you pressing through flat feet and then coming up onto your toes when you’ve almost completed the movement. If you’re doing the former and still handling the same amount of weight, then either you are pretty amazing (very strong calves) or are not using enough weight. If it is the latter, then that would just be supporting my point since you’d be going from a flat foot and then pushing off your toes after you’ve already achieved almost complete leg and hip extension.
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-22-2002 at 09:47 PM by flight05

      later

      it was the later, i generate more power when i execute the leg press using my calves AND quads.

      so do reccomend one technique in TJ takeoffs over the other? Using the leg press info, i can push more with heel–>toe than i can flat footed, so maybe i should use heel toe all of the time in jumping?
      Point me in the right direction Mike!

      Rob
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-22-2002 at 10:37 PM by todd

      Rob

      Flat foot or heel are both going to be different types of landings (but minimally different) that then lead into your takeoff. In the takeoff the toe will be the last thing to leave the ground as you push off.

      What Mike is saying (correct me if I’m wrong Mike), is that you land either with a slight heel touchdown first which then rolls to flat foot to toe push off or you can land flat foot which then rolls to toe push off. The toe push off occurs in both.
      so heel—> toe and flat foot—> toe

      Either way the toe off occurs at near complete leg extension, after the more proximal joints of the leg have been used first.

      Landing on your toes in each phase is like doing the leg press with just your toes and not using your quads. Use the big muscles.

      Is one better than the other- like Mike said personal preference and ankle flexibility. Don’t confuse heel land with having your leg way out in front of you on landing though.

      Use it for all phases.
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-23-2002 at 07:34 PM by flight05

      thanks!

      rob

      ================================================================

      posted on 7-24-2002 at 06:01 PM by Mike

      Nice explanation Todd….that’s exactly what I meant. Every takeoff no matter how it is done will be finished with the athlete taking off of the toes at the point of hip and leg extension. The difference is that in the 2 landing / takeoffs that Todd and I are referring, to is that in these, you will land on either the heel or the midfoot BEFORE pushing off on the balls of the toes; rather than landing on the toes and taking off on the toes.
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-25-2002 at 08:43 PM by Flight05

      does anybody have video of jonathan edwards jumping in slow motion?

      all i can find is what is on this site of his WR https://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~riceroo/media.htm
      i cant view the other ones for some odd reason..

      thanks!

      ================================================================

      posted on 7-25-2002 at 09:26 PM by mike

      This site has some video of Edwards:
      < https://www.biomechanics.mai.ku.dk/triple.htm >

      ================================================================

      posted on 7-26-2002 at 01:54 AM by flight05

      cool, thanks!

      any others?
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-26-2002 at 10:02 PM by Daniel Fichter

      triple Jump
      r

      My advice to a triple jumper is making sure they get plenty of prep work. Their body takes a pounding from constant jumping. Ease into it. We do a series of General Prep Work that strengthens areas in need. A good triple jumper is a healthy triple jumper!!!
      Good Luck,

      Dan Fichter
      http://www.wannagetfast.com
      NY
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-27-2002 at 02:33 AM by flight05

      what kind of GPP do u do with your TJ athletes? what exercises and cues do u have them do/learn?

      thanks rob
      ================================================================

      posted on 7-29-2002 at 07:15 PM by Mike

      There’s no big secrets for GPP. Just keep your workouts lower in intensity/load, slightly higher in volume, and don’t do anything too specific. In essence, the purpose of GPP is preparing you to do the serious training that will take place later in the year. If you didn’t do some kind of GPP or include a GPP phase into your training you wouldn’t be able to jump right into intense training without getting injured. Some ideas for GPP are general strength circuits, dynamic mobility circuits, medball circuits, body building circuits, low-intensity plyos, longer intervals/repeats. or pool workouts. Get creative with it. GPP can be the most fun part of the training year.

      posted on 8-5-2002 at 12:35 AM by Dan

      Like Mike said GPP can come in a variety of different forms. I like body weight movements that strengthen joints and tendons to prepare you for the long season. Afterall, we are using our body and its support systems, why not get it ready! We raise the work capacity and prepare the body for jumping.
      Good luck
      Dan Fichter
      http://www.wannagetfast.com

      ================================================================
      posted on 7-29-2002 at 07:15 PM by Mike

      There’s no big secrets for GPP. Just keep your workouts lower in intensity/load, slightly higher in volume, and don’t do anything too specific. In essence, the purpose of GPP is preparing you to do the serious training that will take place later in the year. If you didn’t do some kind of GPP or include a GPP phase into your training you wouldn’t be able to jump right into intense training without getting injured. Some ideas for GPP are general strength circuits, dynamic mobility circuits, medball circuits, body building circuits, low-intensity plyos, longer intervals/repeats. or pool workouts. Get creative with it. GPP can be the most fun part of the training year.

      posted on 8-5-2002 at 12:35 AM by Dan
      ================================================================

      Like Mike said GPP can come in a variety of different forms. I like body weight movements that strengthen joints and tendons to prepare you for the long season. Afterall, we are using our body and its support systems, why not get it ready! We raise the work capacity and prepare the body for jumping.
      Good luck
      Dan Fichter
      http://www.wannagetfast.com
      ================================================================

      posted on 8-16-2002 at 11:25 PM by Flight05

      another q:

      using carl lewis.com as my guide, i notice that carl displaces his leg to the side on his penultimate stride. i know that the second last stride is supposed to be longer, but to the side?

      i use carl because he jumps off the same foot as me and starts in the sprints with the same foot as me also.

      thanks
      ================================================================

      posted on 8-19-2002 at 03:08 PM by Mike

      I’m pretty certain Carl does this to lower his center of mass prior to takeoff. Planting a leg off to the side will accomplish this. If you have trouble seeing this, picture a folding table (the kind with legs that form an “X”). The closer the base of the legs get, the higher the table top will be. The further apart the legs get (much like a leg moving out and away from under the COM) the low
      er the table gets. This is good in a table because it has two sets of opposing legs. One leg will offset the horizontal pushing of the opposing leg and the table will actually be more stable. In the case of a single support system however, moving the point of contact out from under the COM will make you lower, but because there is no counter-acting force (no opposing leg on the ground) the COM will be pushed away from where the foot contact was made. That is, if I place my foot way out to the right, my COM will move to the left.

      I don’t think this would be the best way to do it by any means. It introduces new forces into the jump (sideways pushing) that do not contribute to the takeoff (I’m referring to the forces and not the advantageous lower body position). In fact, I would suspect that in most people it would seriously take away from the jump because it would slow down takeoff velocity and force the athlete to either correct the sideways pushing so that they can get their feet back under their COM, or takeoff from a position where their foot is not under the COM at any point during takeoff (TERRIBLE!).

      Having said all that, who am I to say Carl Lewis is doing it wrong. He’s the greatest LJer of all time. Perhaps this was one of the ways he was able to manage his speed so that he could set up a good takeoff. I wouldn’t recomend it though unless you have Lewis-like speed. And if you have this kind of speed please give me a call. I’d love to coach you.

      ================================================================

      posted on 8-25-2002 at 02:52 PM by Flight05

      What seems wrong with Phillips Idowu’s form?

      He seems to me like during his step phase his right foot flings to the side while its in the air…seems odd to me!

      He also uses a one arm take off in his hop and step phases which is what i used to do..i get more distance using 2 arms though..

      Phillips Idowu VIDEO
      (click on masterclass broadband)
      ================================================================

      posted on 8-27-2002 at 02:57 PM by Mike

      I can’t seem to get the video but what I can tell you is this; during the flight phase, body part / segment position has virtually no effect on the flight parabola of the center of mass. As a result, body parts / segments that are strangely positioned while in flight are only a concern if one of the following results:
      1. they shift the center of mass so dramatically that it causes rotations of the body around the center of mass which put the athlete into a poor position for takeoff, landing, the next footstrike, etc.
      2. they deviate so far from where they should be that they can’t ‘recover’ to get back into a good position for effective takeoff, landing, footstrike, etc.
      ================================================================

      posted on 8-27-2002 at 08:09 PM by Flight05

      thanks mike, i mean it makes sense if he is jumping 17whatever metres because it sure isnt effecting his performance.

      after reviewing jonathan edwards technique in his first two phases of his TJ he also uses a single arm takeoff technique…this puzzles me because i thought you generate more power using two arms…now i am wondering if you should use the single arm takeoff for the first two phases to PRESERVE SPEED? maybe this could help me (i dont know) but what if i used the single arm technique for just the hop phase and use 2 arms for the step phase….

      i will try this out in my backyard right now!

      thanks!
      ================================================================

      posted on 8-29-2002 at 04:58 PM by Mike

      Flight,

      You’re right about the double arm takeoff generating more power. The drawback it that is can cause serious deviations from sprinting technique for some athletes. As a result, the speed they lose prior to takeoff (in the time period where they must ‘gather’ their arms for a double arm takeoff) may negate the extra l
      ift they get from the double arm takeoff. Another advantage of a single arm takeoff is that it better balances the legs. In a single arm takeoff, as one leg goes forward, the opposite arm opposes this movement and better stabilizes the body.

      I’ve seen great jumpers use all different kinds of arm swing patterns during the 3 phases of the TJ. I think ultimately it comes down to what works best for the individual.
      ================================================================

      posted on 2-2-2003 at 05:10 AM by Mike

      Stone Skipping & TJ

      For those of us willing to put up with some elementary physics, this was posted to another list and could very well have some practical application to the TJ….

      Most of us as children have thrown smooth flat stones across the surface of a
      calm stretch of water to see how many times we could make it “skip”, but
      nobody ever really explained to us how this all works. The following
      interesting article from Physics Web addresses this issue:

      < https://physicsweb.org/article/news/7/1/18 >

      How do stones skip? 31 January 2003

      A French physicist has revealed the science behind a popular pastime called
      stone skipping. Lydéric Bocquet from the University of Lyon derived
      mathematical expressions for what happens when a stone is made to skim across
      a river or lake. He also derived a formula for the maximum number of times a
      stone is able to “skip” before it finally sinks (L Bocquet 2003 Am. J. Phys.
      71 150)

      Intuition tells us that the best stones for skipping are flat and circular,
      and that the should be thrown quickly. A stone should also be “flicked” to
      give it a spin and should hit the water at a small glancing angle.

      Bocquet considered the situation for a flat, thin stone thrown over a
      perfectly uniform water surface. He found that the main factors that
      determine whether the stone sinks or skims are the mass of the stone, its
      angle with respect to the horizon, its angle with respect to the surface of
      the water, its spin rate and its horizontal velocity. He calculated that
      small angles combined with high spin rates are best.

      According to Bocquet, a stone will only bounce if its initial velocity
      exceeds a certain value. If the stone is also spinning, this introduces a
      stabilizing torque that can maintain the initial angle at which it hits the
      water — which helps the stone bounce again.

      The maximum number of bounces depends on the rate at which the stone
      decelerates — which is in turn directly related to its initial velocity. In
      principle, a stone could be made to bounce many times by increasing its
      initial velocity. In practice, however, the number of bounces are limited by
      the angular destabilization factor — which is independent of the initial
      velocity. This means that the all-important initial “flick” is crucial.
      Bocquet believes that his results agree well with observations such as the
      increase in the number of bounces at the end of a throw — known as
      “pitty-pat”.

      Ultimately he hopes that his calculations will allow someone to break the
      world record of 38 bounces which, if Bocquet is right, is achieved by
      throwing the stone at 12 metres per second with an initial spin of 14
      revolutions per second.

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Participant
      QUIKAZHELL on March 18, 2003 at 10:46 am · in reply to: Training Theory #8300

      TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER!

      OK .i am designing a program and i am havin a big problem. if i want to design a 3 peak plan tell me if this is the way to go..

      SEPT-OCT – general prep phase (8 weeks)
      3-1-3-1 cycle.

      NOV.- precomp (4 weeks) 3-1 cycle

      DEC.-MARCH – indoor competition phase (14 MEETS) MARCH 28TH NCAA’S

      APRIL-MAY-Outdoor season NCAA’S MAY 28TH
      THIS is where i am having the most trouble our first outdoor meet is the begining of april so what do i do? continue what i was doing for 8 meets in the spring? then how about in the summer? what do i do in june if i want another series of 5 meets in july? how do i go about doing this? and in august should i totally rest before starting training again in sept? is this too long and will my body break down?
      I have been going thru books lookin for answers but i am stumped can someone please help me out..

      also one more question.. during an unloading week is it still ok to compete? i know since i am a collegiate athlete i have to compete im just wondering for the future if during an onloading week its wise not to compete..or xan the competition used as a special endurance day since the volume isnt high and also a way to rebound the CNS?

      Participant
      QUIKAZHELL on March 18, 2003 at 10:55 am · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19271

      SORRY. I ddint mean 3 peaks necesaairily i meant triple periodization.. there is no real need to peak 3 times.

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 10:55 am · in reply to: Jumps #8301

      posted on 1-10-2003 at 03:36 AM by daa20

      I have been high jumping for 5 seasons now (winter and spring 9th and 10 grade and winter 11th) and I was wondering if there is anyone who has tips on any aspect of the event with the exception of the approach. If anyone has good workouts that really build on the pre-existing skills please reply to this and if you have alot of them just email me at [email protected]. Thanks.

      -David
      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-11-2003 at 05:02 PM by mike

      First of all, I wanted to say that running the approach correctly is about 70% of the high jump. The approach is quite technical in the HJ but if run correctly it sets up everything at takeoff and flight. It’s not unusual for elite level high jumpers to spend most of their technical training time on approch work.

      But since you asked for non-approach stuff, here’s some pointers:

      1. Don’t run anything long (maximum 350m) or slow. You are a power athlete and need to train like one.

      2. Bounding and plyometrics can be very very beneficial for high jumpers.

      3. All jumping exercises offer an opportunity to work on takeoff mechanics in some way. That is, with every jumping exercise you can work on learning to apply force with your hips as opposed to your toe, you can work on arm swing mechanics, posture, free leg swing, flat footed or heel-to-toe takeoff mechanics, placement of foot contact, etc. These are all important but often under-coached issues that can be very helpful.

      4. Emphasize vertical force in most of your jumps. Every jumping exercise can be done with a different emphasis but you should be emphasizing vertical force application. This will mean that you’ll be pushing down harder rather than back, and you’ll be jumping higher rather than farther.

      As for a really general and basic workout plan, I think at your level you might want to do something like this:

      Monday:
      -Dynamic Warmup
      -Flexibility and mobility work
      -Acceleration development (sprints of <30m)
      -Plyos
      -Weight lift (olympic lifting, squats, etc.)

      Tuesday:
      -Dynamic Warmup
      -Flexibility and mobility work
      -Technical train
      -General strength development (medicine ball, body weight exercises, etc.)

      Wednesday:
      -Dynamic Warmup
      -Flexibility and mobility work
      -Approach work
      -Speed development (flying 30s)
      -Weight lift (like Monday)

      Thursday:
      like Tuesday

      Friday:
      -Dynamic Warmup
      -Flexibility and mobility work
      -Speed development (flying 30s)
      -Plyos
      -Weight lift (like Monday)

      Saturday:
      -Dynamic Warmup
      -Flexibility and mobility work
      -Speed endurance (i.e- 6 x 200m)
      -General strength development

      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-11-2003 at 05:32 PM by daa20

      Thank you for the work out plan, I will attempt to follow it as much as possible mainly because we dont take out the mats that much during the winter or spring season so its hard to work on some of these things. I asked for nothing on an approach because I feel that it is something that I do very consistantly and dont have many problems with. If you do fell that there is anything specific in the approach that most people need work on then you can post anything on that. Once agian, Thank You.

      -David

      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-13-2003 at 06:13 AM by mike

      There are several key points to the high jump approach but the most important of these is outward foot pressure on the curve of the run. Outward foot pressure is what establishes the lean and ensures that the lean is coming from the ground and not simply from bending sideways at the trunk. A correct lean establishes the centripetal forces which will, at takeoff, assist in the rotation up and over the
      bar.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-27-2003 at 08:26 PM by daa20

      Are workouts on trampolines any good for High Jumpers at the High School level or should i stay away from that? I am asking because multiple times I have jumped around on my trampoline a few days before a meet and for some reason I seem to do better when I jump on it.

      Thank you for listening to my questions.

      -David

      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-27-2003 at 09:29 PM by Mike

      I've noticed a similar thing jumping on the high jump mat. I don't think it would really be all that good for you but I think it might have that effect because it allows a plyometric-type workout without overly taxing the neuromuscular system due to the increased shock absorbancy of the mat / trampoline.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-28-2003 at 03:21 AM by daa20

      Do you think that a workout on the trampoline or mats would have the same effect on long and triple jumpers?

      -David
      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-28-2003 at 04:01 PM by mike

      I think so. I'd imagine you wouldn't really want to use it as a training device too often though because it really slows down the amortization phase of jumping and somewhat reduces the plyometric effect of jumping exercises. It is much easier on the legs though and reduces the pounding that the legs take from landing on a hard surface dramatically. I think this might be why it would be beneficial, especially if you've got jumpers who need a workout but have dead or tired legs.

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 11:16 am · in reply to: The Classics #8302

      posted on 6-18-2002 at 02:29 AM by jacko

      strength at LSU

      Mike, My interest is in sprints/Horizontal jumps. Could you lay out the approach in the weight room at LSU for the jumpers/sprinters, have read an article where Boo spoke about cleans & squats but what other exercises are used/How many days per week ect.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-18-2002 at 05:03 PM by Mike

      Cleans, etc.

      Our lifting schedule varies throughout the year, but in general it goes something like this:
      -4 – 6 days a week.
      -At least 2, possibly up to 3 of those days will be a workout consisting of an olympic weightlifting movement, some type of squat, and some type of pressing movement.
      -The remaining days will be used to perform a weightlifting circuit of some sort where the athletes do anywhere from 15-30 exercises and the circuit will last about 30 minutes.
      -As for our exercise selection it goes something like this: for the Olympic weightlifting movements, we might do power cleans from various positions (floor, above knee, below knee) or snatches (split snatch, power snatch from floor, above knee, below knee). The squatting movements could be back squats, front squats, lunges, step-ups, split squat jumps, etc. The pressing movements ussually are either bench press, incline press or military press. The reps and intensity as well as the exercises chosen vary throughout the year and depending on the training cycle. As a rule of thumb however, our olympic movements are ussually in the 1-4 rep range, and the squats and pressing movements are in the 3-8 rep range. We ussually do 4-6 sets of each of those exercises. I hope this cleared some things up. If you have any further questions let me know.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-18-2002 at 10:43 PM by Jacko

      thanks mike,
      Sounds similar to Dan Pfaff’s stuff at Texas, (I know he came from LSU) have spoken to him numerous times about his programs. Are the circuits mainly ancillary type stuff?. I have some test results that Boo put up on a list somewhere for MJ’s , Shot throws and 30m. What sort of numbers do the female sprinters (Muna ect) put up in the weight room (Cleans, squats, Presses). My best female sprinter (11.40w/11.60) has the following bests at 55kg BW
      Clean 70k, Back Squat (Full – Olympic) 100kg, Bench 70kg.

      Keep up the good work
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-19-2002 at 12:56 AM by mike

      Jacko-
      You’re right about the circuits- they are mostly ancillary type stuff (body building exercises/ general strength type stuff). The main purpose of these circuits is to increase work capacity and also to help improve recovery. Body building exercises (in the 8-15 rep range) and exercise circuits have been shown to increase growth hormone secretion which should help in recovery from the harder workouts.

      Are the test results that you are referring to the ones that Boo posted to the speed-power list server? If so, those results are from this past year’s test pentathlon. That was an unbelievable competition. Walter Davis and Claston Bernard both broke the school record for the test (which is quite amazing if you consider the great athletes we’ve had here at LSU). We do this test in the fall as a big competition for the whole team. The test consists of the 30m, SLJ, STJ, overhead SP, & between the legs forward SP.

      As for the weight room numbers for the womens sprinters, I’m not exactly sure, but I know they are nothing amazing. As a matter of fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen Muna ever clean more than 50 kg or squat over 70 kg. She is pretty thin though if you’ve ever seen her. Lolo Jones is quite strong from what I’ve seen but I couldn’t recall any numbers for her. The women’s sprinters don’t follow quite the same weight room routin
      e as us though. It’s similar but not exactly the same. In general, the strongest athletes on the team are the throwers and jumpers/multis.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-19-2002 at 05:23 AM by jacko

      strength ar LSU

      Mike are you able to post any samples of your gym circuit work?
      I have heard the same reasoning for the circuits from Dan Pfaff.
      what are Walter’s strength levels like ?(yes the testing was the one you mentioned)
      and finally do you have any formula’s ect for comparing cleans/squats to the various field tests (SLJ, BOH ect).
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-19-2002 at 06:19 AM by mike

      The bodybuilding circuits go like this:
      Circuit A-

      knee extension

      lunges

      leg curls

      lunge walks

      back hypers

      rows

      lat pulldowns to back

      behind the neck press

      dips

      hanging leg lifts

      russian twists

      behind the neck press

      Circuit B

      single leg extension

      twist lunge

      single leg curls

      back hypers w/ twist

      rows

      lat pulldowns to front

      alternate weighted v-sits

      hanging lateral leg lifts

      stooped russian twists

      windmills

      crossover stepups

      closed squats

      We ussually do a circuit consisting of 24 exercises. This may either be 2x through one of the above circuits or 1x through each.

      Walter is quite strong. He’s not the strongest jumper though at LSU. Off the top of my head I’d say he could max out on cleans at 120 kg and about 160 kg for back squats. Where he is most amazing is out on the track, not in the weightroom.

      No we don’t have any formulas for comparing the various tests in the weight room to field tests. One of the things I’m doing for USATF right now is trying to come up with something like that though. I’m not really sure how valuable it will be; but I’m looking into it to help create some kind of standardized testing set up for the womens putters.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-19-2002 at 06:31 AM by jacko

      strength at LSU

      When evaluating my program for the year, and looking at out testing (Pre training) It appears to me our strength levels are good, but our results in power tests SLJ, Shot throws are relatively lagging, So I think I need to incorporate more explosive type work, especially things to improve our starting strength.
      So I am thinking that a little more use of Shots/MEd balls ect may be in order.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-19-2002 at 05:13 PM by mike

      getting strength that means something

      I think you’re right. Weight room work needs to be balanced with medball, SP throws, plyos, etc. to really get the full benefit. A lot of people mistakenly think that weight room strength has a direct correlation to performance on the track. I think that it definitely helps but there comes a point of limiting returns where more strength will not necessarily help all that much. It may in fact hurt performance if the athlete is spending more time trying to become a better lifter and devoting less time to becoming a better track & field athlete.

      It is also important to keep in mind that while force development in the weight room is very high, the rate of force development is actually quite slow when compared to most track and field events. I think this is where the plyos, medball, etc can help to bridge the gap.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-19-2002 at 10:41 PM by jacko

      Mike, Have read a lot of stuff recently about the posterior chain, and using special exercises to target weakness in this area eg using deadlifts to strengthen the glutes/HS before moving on to faster
      lifts like cleans ect. what are your thoughts, do you think the olympics are the best lifts to generally strengthen this area (I agree that they have benefits in RFD, Starting strength ect).
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-20-2002 at 03:20 AM by mike

      posterior chain, etc.

      I think posterior chain stuff is really important. I handled all the strength work last year for all the sprinters, jumpers and hurdlers at Ohio University and we did lots and lots to work this area. We only had one hamstring problem all year and that was to a guy who had had chronic hamstring problems his whole career. We did quite a bit of Romanian DLs, Glute-Ham Raises, Stiff Legged DLs, Clean Pulls, etc. I think DEEP squats are great for this area too. When I say deep, I’m not talking about parallel- I’m talking about bottom to the floor- super deep squats. The lower the depth of the squat the more the hamstring muscle group gets involved. When looking for the best exercises to develop the posterior chain, remember that the hamstrings are hip extensors AND knee flexors, and as such both functions needed to be worked. If you can find an exercise to work both roles at the same time then you’ve got a gem- the Glute-Ham raise (where they come up to parallel and then flex at the knees so that they finish with their torso perpindicular to the ground) is one of the few that will do this for you. There’s also some stuff you can do on a stability ball that can do the same thing.

      I’m a really big fan of the Olympic lifts. If done correctly, they are irreplaceable in the training program. I think that they can be great at strengthening the posterior chain also. As for needing to do other lifts before you teach the Olympic Lifts (OL), I think that it is a good idea from a teaching standpoint but not really necessary from a strength standpoint. As with all training, one of the keys is to not do too much too soon. One can easily do the OL with something as light as a 15kg bar to learn the technique if necessary. If there is an obvious strength deficiency in the hamstring muscle group then that would be another story altogether. In that case, you’d definitely want to develop a strong foundation level of strength, which will require special attention to the weakest link.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-20-2002 at 05:43 AM by jacko

      Mike, Previously we have used Cleans & Squats on Monday & Thursday each week, But I am currently trying just one lift on each of those Days ie one day squat theme and one day cleans theme.
      will use a few extra sets eg 5-6 x 5 instead of 3-4 when using two lifts. And will begin the cleans theme day with deadlfts before moving on to clean Pulls and Cleans later in the year.
      A little more economical I think, will also allow a little more time for MJ or MT work before the weight room. (Time is short as most of my athletes have to work).
      May include some ancillariy stuff if time and energy permits. (Ps we do our upper body work on seperate days)
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-21-2002 at 11:13 PM by Daniel Fichter

      You mentioned squats very deep. This is exactly why i love the Olympic Lifts through a full range of motion. The power clean and power snatch have there place in every weight room, but do not neglect your full olympic lifts and their impact on developing full range of motion!
      Dan Fichter
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-25-2002 at 03:43 PM by mike

      Great Point Dan-
      I love the full Olympic Lifts. I don’t think that there are any other exercises you could do that would better develop total body power (with the explosive pull & jerk), strength (from standing up with the weight after it has been racked in a low position), and flexibility (from the low positions of both the clean & jerk and especially the snatch)
      . I’d say if you only had 2 hours a week to devote to strength, you’d really only need to do 3 exercises:

      clean & jerk

      snatch

      back squat
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-26-2002 at 01:36 AM by jacko

      sleds, Hills ect

      Mike, do your guys (or Boo’s) do any sled work or hill work for power development, if so what types do you like.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-26-2002 at 01:30 PM by mike

      Resisted Running

      I am going to start a new thread on this one (see Resisted Running)
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-27-2002 at 05:49 AM by jacko

      mike,
      You mentioned front squats in your weight work, whats your take of these for Long Jumpers, I have used them in the past and like the fact that they take the load off the back as well as the flexibility benefits, I also think they do a lot for core stability. I used full front squats (bottom to floor) to rehab one of my athletes knees after surgery once the physio’s partial range type exercises (1/4 squats and step up type things) failed.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-27-2002 at 07:57 PM by mike

      Jacko-
      Ditto to what you stated in your last post. The front squat is a great way to strengthen all athletes. In the front squat, more emphasis is placed on the anterior thigh muscles and less on the low back and posterior thigh muscles. To do them correctly, you must also have a more upright posture. On a related note, a recent research article stressed the importance of selecting exercises in which the posture used in training exercises closely resembles that of the movements
      they are attempting to facilitate. Since we want a mostly upright and ‘tall’ posture when running and through takeoff, maybe front squats would be of greater value than other forms of squats….I don’t know. Here’s the article info that I’m referring to:
      Wilson GJ, Murphy AJ, Walshe A. (1996).The specificity of strength training: the effect of posture. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol; 73(3-4):346-52.

      I think heavy loaded movements (squats, olympic lifts, overhead pressing movements, and various pulling movements) are the best way to strengthen the core. I think the typical core/pillar/ab/hip/glute circuits are good for getting some of the smaller muscles, or for training muscles in different motions but I don’t think they could possibly have the same strengthening effect as the above mentioned exercises.

      The rehab “training” that many athletic trainers have athletes do for rehab is worthless. I think most of the typical 1/4 squat progression stuff, balance board stuff, tape jobs, and flexibility recomendations that are often seen in athletic training rooms is hogwash. Having said that, a good athletic trainer who knows what he/she is doing can be an invaluable tool to any sports team.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 6-27-2002 at 08:39 PM by Daniel Fichter

      Mike,
      My take on it is this. Often times we send kids to therapy becuase of an injury. What happens is the therapist works on restoring the correct neural firing pateterns etc. The exercises they do are different(some times). When the athlete is returned to us, we see an improvement in their performance. Of course, most coaches think it was the therapy that made them perform better. I tend to think that it could of been an over use injury and the athlete just needed proper recovery and regeneration. It wasnt any of the neat balancing tricks they did, it was the fact that they did different drills to help aid the recovery process. What coaches are now doing is bringing the ball to pracitice thinking this is the cure all to athletic performance. They are dead wrong. Building in proper recovery is the way to go. Nothing specia
      l here, just sound training. Dont look for the gadget. Look for the right plan. These people are not performance specialists, they are here to get our athletes back to full speed.
      Dan Fichter
      ===========================================================

      posted on 7-11-2002 at 12:46 AM by Jacko

      mike, when you are lifting (Big lifts) 3 x per week how do you allocate the lifts ie
      do you back squat 2 x and choose a different lift for the third day or do you choose a different lift every session eg day 1 = Back sq Day 2 = Lunge Day 3 = Front squat
      ===========================================================

      posted on 7-11-2002 at 03:50 AM by mike

      We would typically do squats only once a week. We might do front squats, lunges, lunge jumps, step ups, or split squats on the other days. On occasion we may throw in some static / dynamic type lifting also.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 7-23-2002 at 03:00 AM by jacko

      mike, do you do GS circuits in the field as well as the gym stuff. where does it fit in the weekly plan.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 7-24-2002 at 06:04 PM by mike

      Yes we do GS in the field also. We have GS circuits that are done 2-3x a week as well as medball circuits that may be done 2-3x a week. The GS field circuits would typically be done on the same days we do the bodybuilding circuits.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 8-30-2002 at 05:45 AM by jacko

      Mike, what sort of rep schemes do you use for step ups and lunge jumps, I assume you would not be strictly in the 3-8 range as per squats.
      Also when Boo takes the squatting out of the program does he replace it with other exercises of does he just do the olympic variants in that session?
      PS Thanks for your thoughts so far, my athletes appreciate it greatly.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 8-30-2002 at 05:48 AM by jacko

      Mike,
      Could you go more into what you did at Ohio last year in terms of the strength work set up, as well as how the track work was set up around it.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 8-30-2002 at 04:56 PM by mike

      When I was at OU two years ago I put together the strength program for all the sprinters, jumpers, hurdlers, and multis. We lifted in the morning (7am) 3 days a week during fall and some of winter and 2 days a week for the remainder of winter and all of spring. I personally wanted to do more but we were limited by the facility times we were given. Our track workouts came in the afternoon (3pm). A typical program would consist of an Olympic movement or a variation, a squat (front, back, single leg, lunges, etc.), a pressing movement (bench, military, DB work, etc.), an upper body pulling movement (chin-ups, rows, etc.), and some assistance work. The assistance work might be some short weight circuit or maybe a couple bodyweight exercises. I like to keep the rep range relatively low through out the year, even early on. What I would do though is monitor the intensities and volume. I’d do this by using % of rep max’s, and varying the sets and to a small extent the reps. For instance, during September they might do 8-10 x 3 for cleans @ 55-65%. In May however, they would do 4 x 2 @ 85+% after a couple low-rep warm up sets. Also, I take an opposite view to most on near maximal work. Most people think doing 1-2 reps at 90+% is where athletes get hurt. I tend to think it’s probably more likely that a kid would get hurt on the last few reps of a set of 12 @ 75%. Those last few reps are when the muscle is really fatigued and technique is most likely to break down as a result. Also, when you do lower intensity sets (i.e- 12 @ 75%) the first few reps of the set are not taxing the body to any great extent. Compare these two
      possible pre-comp rep schemes for the squat:

      Option 1 sets/reps/intensity
      1 x 4 @ 50%
      1 x 4 @ 60%
      1 x 4 @ 70%
      1 x 4 @ 80%
      3 x 3 @ 85%

      Total reps: 36
      Total reps @ 70+%: 14
      Total reps @ 80+%: 6
      % of reps @ 70+%: 39
      % of reps @ 80+%: 17

      Option 2
      sets/reps/intensity
      1 x 12 @ 50%
      1 x 10 @ 60%
      1 x 8 @ 70%
      1 x 6 @ 80%

      Total reps: 21
      Total reps @ 70+%: 17
      Total reps @ 80+%: 13
      % of reps @ 70+%: 81
      % of reps @ 80+%: 62

      If you think that increasing force production is your primary reason for being in the weight room, then why would you choose option 2. You’d spend most of your energy, on very low intensity sets, and in the process fatigue yourself for the “work” sets.

      I don’t think that higher reps are terrible, I think they do have a place and I did incorporate them at certain points of the year. I would just prefer to train speed / power athletes like a speed / power athlete and not like a body builder.

      In addition to this format, I also, included some very low load (30% body weight or max depending on the exercise) speed exercises later in the year. These were either done for time or for reps (ussually less than 8).
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-4-2002 at 11:09 PM by jacko

      Mike,
      Do you think the circuits as Boo uses them are an effective way of keeping people fit/lean, I have a few issues with bodyweight control for one of my female sprinters. I am very reluctant to expose her to more work on the track for fear of stress type inuries to the shins/feet ect.
      What other options are available to get people “Fit”?
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-8-2002 at 06:48 PM by Mike

      I think the circuits are a great way of increasing general fitness and in so doing, helping to keep athletes lean. Fat is the bain of anyone in track and field. I think for strength / power athletes, weight circuits offer a viable and more useful alternative than adding aerobic workouts as a way to increase fitness. One of the nice things about weight circuits is that they have several benefits but do not require any significant recovery time. Weight circuits can be a means of increasing aerobic capacity and work capacity (although the aerobic component is minimal), as well as beneficially stimulating hormone levels. All of these add up to a leaner athlete. And all other things being equal, a leaner athlete will always have an advantage.

      If you wanted to do something else to increase fitness without overly stressing the body you could try pool workouts (aqua jogging) or interval workouts on a bike. Also, low intensity general strength circuits would be beneficial.

      Another alternative which may be harder to sell to kids is to make them understand that perhaps the best way to get lean is to be active throughout the day. That is, just tell them to do some really easy calistenics first thing in the morning or before they go to bed. If people would start walking places to where they would normally drive or parking their car a quarter mile away from their destination instead of always looking for the closest parking spot then obesity wouldn’t be nearly as much of a problem in this country. Any of these suggestions will fire up their metabolism and assist in fat burning.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-8-2002 at 10:39 PM by jacko

      Mike, have you had any experience with interval workouts on the bike, Dan Pfaff suggested simulating all the track sessions on the bike for an athlete of mine who was recovering from a stress type lower leg injury.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-9-2002 at 02:36 AM by mike

      I agree with Dan but I think that you might want to up the volume a bit just because cycling is so much less stressful than runnin
      g. If you were doing equivalent workouts on a bike as you are on a track (i.e- 4 x 300m run / 4 x 42′ cycle @ 90%) I don’t think that that amount of cycling would be nearly enough to elicit the same training response as the sprinting workout.

      Now if you are adding cycling workouts to a pre-existing workout regimen then there would be no need to try and get the same training response. That would more than likely just lead to overtraining.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-10-2002 at 05:59 AM by jacko

      mike, back to your program from 2 years ago, where did you start in terms of rep ranges for the squat, I assume the 10 x 2 was for the olympic lifts?, I like the look of your program, the only concerns I have with my female sprinters is really low reps with Back squats, only because the loads fo up and I am not too keen about really heavy loads on their spines.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-10-2002 at 03:23 PM by mike

      For the first 2 weeks we did back squats in the 8-10 rep range with really low loads (either a set weight like 60kg or maybe 40-50% max). I monitored %s and set the percentage for each set. The percentages were prescribed with some athlete leeway in case they felt exceptionally strong or tired on that day. After the first 2 weeks we went down to 5-6 reps and then finally to 3-4 reps. Although the load (% of Rep Max) was undulated throughout the season, the rep range stayed relatively constant at 3-4 throughout the season. There were several weeks where the rep range would go back up (8-10) and there were likewise weeks where they would be doing doubles and possibly even singles.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-11-2002 at 04:17 PM by keith

      Mike, How long did you stay with 5 reps before going to 3 reps? What was the reasoning for going back to 8-10 reps?
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-12-2002 at 10:30 PM by mike

      Kieth-
      I didn’t do the sets of 5 for very long. We were into 3-rep squats after 1 month. Granted, we were still doing 30-35 total reps with a relatively light load (around 75%). I went back to some of the higher rep stuff after the indoor conference meet so that the kids could recover a little. Unless you’re not competing in indoors or are choosing to just train through it, a periodized plan for track athletes should have a double peak (once in indoors, once in outdoors). Essentially, in the early spring you should be putting the kids through a very similar, but shortened, version of the fall training cycle. Changes to the format can be made based on what you felt worked / didn’t work, the particular physical fitness of the athletes, etc.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-19-2002 at 01:53 AM by jacko

      Mike
      How do you guys do you step ups, what height, what reps and how much loading?
      ===========================================================

      posted on 9-19-2002 at 02:47 AM by mike

      We do 3 kinds of step-ups. The first kind is used in weight circuits and is called a twist step up. On this, you start with your leg crossing your body and up on the box. You then step up and turn. This is done with dumbells. The reps for this are 10 x each leg.

      We also do normal step ups with either dumbells or barbells. The load on this doesn’t get too heavy. Probably around 70kg for men. At OU I had some of the kids doing 90kg. This is for 5-8 reps per leg. The third kind of step-up is a plyo-step up where the athlete steps-up, switches feet, lands on the opposite foot, and repeats the exercise. This is done without weight. This exercise is usually done for time.

      We almost always use a box that is 18-24 inches high. A good ballpark idea for step height is getting the thigh to be parallel to the groun
      d when it is placed on the box.

      ===========================================================

      posted on 10-7-2002 at 07:07 AM by jacko

      Mike, Two questions
      What’s your take on the Static/Dynamic Stuff. (would you include it on a regular basis.)
      And in the Program you designed, I take it you made up the volume by including a large # of sets,
      For squats of 5-6 repswas there more sets with the lower intensities
      eg 10 x 5 @ 70%
      Progressing to say 5 x 5 if the intensity was higher (Say 80-85%).
      ===========================================================

      posted on 10-8-2002 at 01:52 AM by mike

      Jacko-
      I think static/dynamic stuff is a nice change of pace workout. We do it for 1 or 2 macrocycles here. I know several other big programs also use it on exercises like squats and bench press. I don’t know if I’d recommend doing it every week but I definitely think it can have a place in a well designed program.

      As for your second question, you’re exactly right. When the intensity is lower the total volume is quite high. So if sets of 5 were being done, then 8-10 sets might be appropriate. When the intensity got higher, the number of sets and / or reps would drop.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 11-12-2002 at 08:16 AM by jacko

      Kebba, how do you set things up in the weight room, I read you use RDL’s at times, where do these fit in to the schedule.
      Andrew
      ===========================================================

      posted on 11-13-2002 at 01:18 AM by ktolbert

      re: RDL’s

      i use them as part of our auxilliary training on general days.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 11-13-2002 at 05:10 AM by mike

      Before I comment about RDLs, for those of you that aren’t familiar with human anatomy or muscle function, here’s a very pertinent crash course on the muscles at the back of the thigh:
      There are several muscles that make up the muscle group commonly known as the hamstring muscle group. Some of these muscles are mono-articular, meaning they only attach at one joint and thus only have one function. In the hamstring group, the mono-articular muscles serve to flex the knee. Other muscles in this group are bi-articular, meaning they span two joints. As such, they have two functions: knee flexion and hip extension. In running, the hamstring muscle group is used primarily as knee stabilizers and hip extensors. Now on to RDLs….

      I love RDLs. When I was at OU I used them all the time. I had the athletes doing tons of RDLs and Glute-Ham Raises. I think that the hip-extension function of the bi-articular muscles of the posterior thigh is severely overlooked and under-worked. In running, the biarticular muscles of the posterior thigh are primarily used as hip extensors rather than knee flexors. This is why it seems odd to me that leg curls (knee flexion) are the primary hamstring exercise in most track strength programs. Both RDLs and Glute-Ham raises work the hip extension function of these muscles. Interestingly enough, we did these two exercises all year several times a week at OU and didn’t have a single hamstring injury among the sprinters or jumpers. I know this is purely anectodal evidence, but I’d like to believe that this isn’t a coincidence.

      And a side note about Glute-Ham raises….
      if done correctly, they are one of only two exercises I know that works both functions (knee flexion and hip extension) of the hamstring muscle group at the same time. When I say done correctly, I mean that the back rises to a position where it is parallel with the floor (hip extension) and then the knees flex (knee flexion) to bring the trunk perpendicular to the floor. It’s important that the knee flexion not occur simply through the momentum generated from the hip extension but rather as an active contraction from the knee flexors.
      ========
      ===================================================

      posted on 11-13-2002 at 12:29 PM by JJ

      RDL’s

      Totally agree with you Mike.

      I use the RDL’s and weighted back hyperextensions with my group and have had good success. I also used the RDL with an athlete who suffered from chronic hamstring pulls during his college career. The RDL significantly his strength and function throghout his posterior chain.
      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-20-2003 at 10:40 PM by jacko

      “The third kind of step-up is a plyo-step up where the athlete steps-up, switches feet, lands on the opposite foot, and repeats the exercise. This is done without weight. This exercise is usually done for time.”
      Mike, where do these fit into the program?
      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-20-2003 at 11:02 PM by jacko

      Mike, you mentioned using split squats as a squat variation, how are these performed? Back foot elevated…what depth?
      also what loads do you find the woman can handle.
      Thanks
      JAcko
      ===========================================================

      posted on 1-21-2003 at 01:19 AM by mike

      We use unloaded step-up jumps early in the year as part of a multi-jump series and later in the year we do loaded step-up jumps in the weight room.

      A split squat starts with the athlete in the extended or split position of a lunge. The difference from a lunge is that instead of stepping back to a “feet-together” position every reptition, the athlete just raises and lowers their hips without moving their feet from the split position.

      I think 50% of squat max would be a good ball park figure for both men and women on this lift. Obviously, the higher this percentage the better because split squats are slightly more specific to running and jumping as it is a unilateral movement compared to a bilateral movement (normal squat). All this of course is said with the condition being that you are trying to achieve the same thing with both squats and split squats and not emphasizing speed or strength with one or the other. For example, our athletes don’t get that high of a % because when we do them, it is later in the year and we are not trying to develop the same thing (maximal strength) as we did earlier in the year with the full squats. When we do get around to using this exercise the athletes probably use somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40% of squat max.

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 11:41 am · in reply to: Your Stabilizers and Balance and their role in TJ #19259

      I don’t think you need to do too much balance work. I think the time spent will far outweigh the benefits gained. In general, I think the whole ‘balance’ thing is just a gimmicky fad used to sell balls, balance boards, and the like.

      What most of the balance theories fail to realize is that balance comes from the ground up and while abdominal and lumbar strength and balance are very important their role in balance is not what most would think.

      Having said that, there are some balance concepts that I think could be useful. The ones I’m referring to are generally aimed at increasing proprioceptive awareness in static, quasi-static, and dynamic postures where the feet are on the ground or an unstable surface. I think these may have some use in minimizing amortization phases and thus ground contact times which could be important when maintaining velocity is key (as in the TJ).

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 9:44 pm · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19272

      Your set up for fall looks fine, but like you said, after this point, things get complicated. Before I say anything more are you D1, D2, or D3? The reason I ask is because the new regional format for D1 would totally change the periodization advice I’d offer. D1 athletes who are even remotely close to making nationals will no longer have to chase marks because the regional qualifiers are relatively low. As such, these athletes (the ones who would have no problem qualifying for regionals) can pretty much train right through the outdoor season because they don’t have to run fast (speaking in terms of their fastest) until the regional meet. Athletes on the fringe of regional qualifying or D3 and D3 athletes don’t have this luxury.

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 18, 2003 at 9:53 pm · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19273

      You can definitely compete on unloading weeks; and it’s not like you have much of a choice in the collegiate system. In any case though, competing on unloading weeks isn’t a big deal because the volume is so low like you mentioned. In fact, it’s my experience that some of the best performances come in these unloading weeks. As such, they are perfect weeks to perform field tests on as well as low key competitions.

      One thing you might want to consider though is if you’ve only been training 5 days a week all year (Mon-Fri), competing on the weekend (regardless of how low the volume on meet day) would still be turning a 5 day cycle into a 6 day cycle…..that’s not exactly what I’d call unloading 🙂

      The ideal situation is that you’re already training 6 days a week and then it wouldn’t be a big deal. If however, you’re only training 5 days a week and a meet falls on a day that would typically be off on a week that is also an unloading week you might want to drop a training day during the week (wednesday would probably be the best day).

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Participant
      QUIKAZHELL on March 18, 2003 at 11:26 pm · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19274

      thanx for the advice you have given so far ,, you reinforced some things that i said and gave extra info on things i was not sure about..
      now as for the planning right after indoor NCAA’S into spring and possibly into summer. please give me some insight.. and if i did not run summer when would i start training for the next indoor season? i am a D3 athlete with official PB’S of 10.99FAT 22.04FAT 22-0 LJ 6.63FAT 55.

      Basically after i have my format down i plan to put it on Excell and i will be willing to share it on these message boards. but i will need all the help i can get.

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 19, 2003 at 11:03 pm · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19275

      In light of your info, I’d do a two cycle of general prep mesocycle just to get back to basics. This would be the time to really go back to learning the fundamental skills in sprinting and long jumping like acceleration, sprint, and takeoff mechanics. In addition to giving your body some much needed rest from the competitive season this would also help to increase fitness levels and work capacities (which will be lower due to the lower volume of work done during indoor competitive season) and strengthen any of the weak links that may have gotten weak from the really event-specific training of the competitive season.

      After this 2 week mesocycle you could do 2 weeks of precomp training. You wouldn’t really need an unloading week. You’d most likely be competing during this time period but that wouldn’t be a big deal- meets would just be special endurance / Vmax / technical days . Follow that with an unloading week and then get into a comp mesocycle.

      Don’t feel like you have to stick to the 3/1: loading: unloading format in the comp phase. I think it’s probably better to let the way you feel, the dates of the meets and relative importance of the meets, as well as your performances in those meets dictate your training cycles.

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Participant
      QUIKAZHELL on March 20, 2003 at 12:15 am · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19276

      ok.. i hear what your saying..
      now as for the summer… what would i do after outdoor ncaa’s if i wanted to compete in the month of july.. and if i did compete in july when would i start my program for next indoor season? would i take the months of august and sept totally off? and what if i ended my season after outdoor nationals… when and what should i do to prepare for next indoor season?

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 21, 2003 at 10:52 am · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19277

      I’d take a week off after the outdoor NCAAs and come back to training refreshed. After this week of rest, you could do one 4 week precomp mesocycle for the month of June; and one 4 week comp mesocycle for the month of July. In this time period you could probably go back to a 3:1 loading/unloading setup for the month of June and then rest as needed in July. This period of time should actually be easier because you don’t have to conform to a collegiate schedule and you can pick and choose when and where you want to compete which makes planning training much easier.

      As for post-summer season training, I’d recommend taking a week or two off and then getting back to some general fitness stuff for the month of August and then start back up training full-go in September.

      ELITETRACK Founder

      Participant
      QUIKAZHELL on March 21, 2003 at 11:13 am · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19278

      thanx alot. you answered all my questions. so basically i would never want to take more than 4 weeks of of speed trainign in any year ecause in doing that i would have to have a long intensive general prep phase which in turn detrains all the speed elements i have worked so hard for the previous season?

      Keymaster
      Mike Young on March 21, 2003 at 1:31 pm · in reply to: TRIPLE PERIODIZATION FOR A COLLEGE SPRINTER! #19279

      I’m not sure if I understand what you wrote correctly or not, but if you are saying what I’m thinking, I think we have a slight misunderstanding.

      By the sounds of your last post you are approaching each phase of training as having completely different focuses. In reality the year should be seen more like a continuum where subtle, gradually occuring changes take place from the beginning to the end of each macrocycle.

      In short, I think you should be training speed to some extent all year long except for the complete rest weeks and maybe a month of unstructured general fitness work. In the fall, speed training would come in the form of 10m-40m sprints. This would progress to flying sprints, sprint-float-sprints and longer sprints (90m-110m) as the season progresses. All of these examples are high intensity and high NM demand, but in the fall the relative velocities are lower just due to the fact that you won’t have time / distance to reach MaxV. As the season progresses, you should continue to increase the distances to where you are sprinting at MaxV. At this point, you want to maximize your MaxV. When you reach a point where you feel you’ve maxed out MaxV, the emphasis shifts to increasing the duration that you can maintain MaxV.

      As a sprinter / jumper, speed should be the primary focus of your training. The only thing that will change is the extent of this focus on speed and the specifics of the training.

      If this is still unclear read this: https://elitetrack.com/sprinttheories.pdf

      ELITETRACK Founder

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